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Posts posted by Keftenk

  1. I don't know why mana ineffiiciency is still being brought up. This is a vanilla myth and always has been. If you're having mana issues then something during the fight went wrong, you aren't using correct consumables, you aren't using correct gear, or your raid sucks. There are exceptions to this, sure. Nefarion for instance drains you because your Innervate goes to the Shadow Priest.

    Naxxramas will probably be the same. Otherwise sticking within or close to the 70-sec theory will make everything just fine.

  2. 15 hours ago, Whitewolf said:

    Owls have the crit aura. At minimum you are looking at an average invisible dps of 30 and eventually up to 150+ as you progress. Arcane Power is nice but the average dps it adds pales in comparison to the aura. Ignite is pure broken and the improved shadowbolt talent is really nice, but they are caused by crits. Moonkin aura improves their effectiveness.


    Not quite. It's very possible it's different with Fire Mages as well as it scaling better with different gear, but here were findings from BWL:

    Frost Mage: ~13.88DPS
    Warlock: ~18.75DPS

    I believe I did detail these findings in the massive stat weight thread I dumped my research into.

  3. And that's the thing. Shorter fights is where Moonkin (with Starfire) excel and can actually compete. I never had BiS list in 1.8 on Nostalrius, but even in blues I was pulling 600+ on BWL bosses. Where as when I was testing AQ40 and Naxx on the PTR, I had a test run of ~1060dps from what I remember. This is why I developed the 70-second theory to prioritize gear around.

    Most fights, even including AQ are within that range or just slightly over. I do understand Naxx complicates things since Naxx fights are inherently designed to be longer, but the basics can at least be established from that research.

  4. 2 hours ago, Rafale said:

    That's interesting. How much hit do you need to be sure you take advantage of the crit talent?

    Your goal shouldn't be to take advantage of the Crit talent since Moonkin doesn't have native Hit talents. Even 0% hit will utilize the Crit talent. Build for the fight is what I did and it worked just fine.

  5. Does it even need to be discussed?

    I think it's crazy to think anyone would be willing to lose out on Curse of Shadows damage just for 2-3 Wraths per Starfire. I mean. Essentially 2 Wraths will equal one cast of Starfire. Not to mention you have to gear Hit% heavy to cut down the chances of resists on your Wraths, which is then causing Starfire to due less damage compared to a DPS setup. Maybe there is a good hybrid set out there that bridges that gap between Wrath and Starfire, but you're still doing 10% less damage per 2-3 Wrath cast.

    I'm not saying Wrath isn't possible, but I honestly think it's either pure Wrath or pure Starfire. Not a hybrid.

  6. Is Wrath a solution? It's possible, but I have very little data on it. Before Nostalrius kicked the bucket I had just begun working on Wrath. When I was apart of the QA team, AQ and Naxx weren't gated, so when I had spare time I developed the rest of Moonkin vs spawned dummies and gear which wasn't obtainable on live. Here's is what I did find out about Wrath.

    Wrath is a mana hog, but it's amazing on trash. Nearly every monster in vanilla has a 75NR, which is lower than all the other resistances. Thunderfury obviously cuts this which helps. The problem is there is no natural dmg% increase to Nature outside of Darkmoon Faire, Stormstrike (only 2 charges), and Nightfall. So it comes up tremendously short :(

    You could try doing a Wrath > Starfire rotation, but honestly you're going to hurt yourself more than help. Either Wrath or Starfire won't receive the full benefits of your gear because they are two very different spells and/or it would probably be more beneficial to just spam Wrath until OOM versus trying to alternate.

  7. I will say that Naxxramas is a toss up though. A lot of the fights are longer by design, but your DPS upkeep also isn't 100% with the exception of Patchwerk. I never really got to test against Naxxramas because they gated it on the PTR HAHA... The research after that is speculative and I've mentioned that the research for AQ is speculative as well, but more than half of AQ was tested with various gear combinations.

    The only thing left out was Wrath, which I came to the conclusion would require you to be geared completely differently.

  8. You shouldn't need mana, period. The only "endurance" fights right now is Nefarion and C'Thun. Naxxramas may be a different issue, but your gear should be scaling. As I mentioned prior. If you're having mana issues then either something happened during the fight, you aren't correctly gear/enchanted, you aren't using the correct consumables, or your raid group is poor.

    Anyways, for Starfire SP > Crit. It's hard to weight the stat. I'd suggest looking back at the thread where we did try and weight the stat. There is a point where SP and Crit needs to balance out to receive the optimal amount of DPS return, however just remember that Starfire receives 100% of your SP.

    Maybe this will help you out better. Choker of the Firelord is 34sp and it will produce a higher DPS return than Pristine Enchanted South Seas Kelp which is +2% to Starfire.

    Naxxramas you should be seeing a little over 40% crit on Starfire with over +900sp.

  9. You can check around in this forum for research like that. At one point we tried determining values for stat points like that. However, it was overall inconclusive as it changes wildly depending on duration of fight. Also, it's completely different for Wrath vs Starfire.

    Hit > Spelldmg > Crit > Int > M5 > Spi is the optimal stat progression for Starfire.
    No more than 11% hit, but if anything is alive after 70 seconds then you'll want more hit.

    To quell any suspicions around exactly how much SP:Crit. You don't have to worry about any of that until Naxxramas comes out where you'll be wanting to use Brimstone Staff, Gem of Trapped Innocents, and Leggings of Polarity.

    And Spell Pen. is useless.

  10. Rule of thumb: If you're running out of mana either something happened during the fight, you aren't using correct consumables, or you need to find better players to play with. This is 2017. Nearly every fight in vanilla isn't long opposed to what they were like in the real days of vanilla. These mana issues are nothing but a myth otherwise.