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caoyang

Warlock Versus Shaman

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I played a Warlock on old Nostalrius server. It was really fun for me and I really liked the role-play experience as a warlock too. In addition, I used to play warlock on retail for a few years; it was not nearly as fun as playing on Nos but I am used to playing warlock.

 

On the other hand, Shaman is very appealing to me, too. It was the first class I ever played in WOW; and it was also the first class I leveled to 60 back in Vanilla. I also really like playing as Tauren Shaman (Tauren being my favorite race).  

 

My only concern for Shaman is that I feel Shaman is not nearly as strong as warlock in PVP. Warlock is pretty op in vanilla, and ganking while leveling is a giant piece of fun on Nos. For warlock, I dont quite like playing as forsaken or orcs. I am a bit tired of playing as forsaken, and orcs just don't seem like a caster class to me...they kinda look weird in robes and horses...

 

I love both classes; they are both fun to play.

 

 

So what do I do? 

 

Thank you for your opinion!

 

 

For the Horde!!!

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Well, warlocks are definitely the head honchos of Vanilla. They are absolute monsters in PvP and are the only class without a hard counter. Shamans on the other hand can get kited very easily and rely very heavily on windfury proc to even consider killing other players. They're easily countered by hunters, warlocks, rogues, decent warriors, geared mages, geared shadow priests, skilled feral druids, and.. well.. I ran out of classes. Of course, if you do happen to get a really strong windfury off, you can SMASH a mage/priest/druid in cat or caster form/hunter ( assuming you can even catch the hunter and mage.) Warlocks have too much health and soul link to kill quick enough before they fear you for the rest of your life. Rogues are just going to stunlock you. If they feel threatened, they'll use evasion, guaranteeing your demise.

 

I think that, in general, warlock is the way to go if you want a well rounded consistent class. Shamans on the other hand are really fun to watch gigantic windfury procs. They're also really lame when windfury doesn't proc.  For pvp as a shaman you're mostly going to rely on windfury proccing with triple crits the second you make contact, otherwise there's a good chance you might not survive the confrontation if they have any idea how to fight.

 

As much as I love shaman, I hate not having dual wield and I hate relying on chance to win. I don't ever see myself rolling another shaman again. I had 3 60 shamans and a 70 shaman... loved em once, don't love 'em anymore. I refuse to roll a warlock because I'm not the kind of person that plays overpowered classes.

 

   You mentioned ganking. Shaman is decent for ganking.. just... not as decent as an infernal let lose in the center of __insert any low level town from either faction__.

 

  And I might as well add that if you're not going restoration as a shaman, forget collecting class sets in dungeons, they're garbage for ele/enh. The only gear you're going to find worthwhile are random blue/epic leather/non-set items in dungeons that turn out to be subpar compared to class set items oriented towards a specific spec. i.e. shaman set items scale better for restoration than any other non-set items will scale for ele/enh. Not to mention you'll be farming the hell out of a single dungeon for that one that BIS for ele/enh, then doing so for every other BIS from a million different dungeons. Always seems like each dungeon only has one BIS for hybrid non-healers.   On a side note, PvP gear is pretty hardcore for Enhancement.

 

  Personally I'd go with warlock. You'll destroy everybody in PvP, you'll be able to scale VERY hard with end-game tier gear, and everybody loves summons. Just do it, the alliance deserve it. Everyone should roll warlocks so that all we have to do as a team is stack dots on as many players as possible and watch them all die within seconds. Personally I'm going with mage - blink is equivalent to 20% increased movement speed.

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It seems to me that for you Warlock represents what you know how to play well, and are accustomed to. Shaman seems to be your nostalgic class.

 

My recommendation: Play whatever you think feels coolest, and for you that seems to be Shammy. Don't bother much with what's good or bad.

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Well, warlocks are definitely the head honchos of Vanilla. They are absolute monsters in PvP and are the only class without a hard counter. Shamans on the other hand can get kited very easily and rely very heavily on windfury proc to even consider killing other players. They're easily countered by hunters, warlocks, rogues, decent warriors, geared mages, geared shadow priests, skilled feral druids, and.. well.. I ran out of classes. Of course, if you do happen to get a really strong windfury off, you can SMASH a mage/priest/druid in cat or caster form/hunter ( assuming you can even catch the hunter and mage.) Warlocks have too much health and soul link to kill quick enough before they fear you for the rest of your life. Rogues are just going to stunlock you. If they feel threatened, they'll use evasion, guaranteeing your demise.

 

I think that, in general, warlock is the way to go if you want a well rounded consistent class. Shamans on the other hand are really fun to watch gigantic windfury procs. They're also really lame when windfury doesn't proc.  For pvp as a shaman you're mostly going to rely on windfury proccing with triple crits the second you make contact, otherwise there's a good chance you might not survive the confrontation if they have any idea how to fight.

 

As much as I love shaman, I hate not having dual wield and I hate relying on chance to win. I don't ever see myself rolling another shaman again. I had 3 60 shamans and a 70 shaman... loved em once, don't love 'em anymore. I refuse to roll a warlock because I'm not the kind of person that plays overpowered classes.

 

   You mentioned ganking. Shaman is decent for ganking.. just... not as decent as an infernal let lose in the center of __insert any low level town from either faction__.

 

  And I might as well add that if you're not going restoration as a shaman, forget collecting class sets in dungeons, they're garbage for ele/enh. The only gear you're going to find worthwhile are random blue/epic leather/non-set items in dungeons that turn out to be subpar compared to class set items oriented towards a specific spec. i.e. shaman set items scale better for restoration than any other non-set items will scale for ele/enh. Not to mention you'll be farming the hell out of a single dungeon for that one that BIS for ele/enh, then doing so for every other BIS from a million different dungeons. Always seems like each dungeon only has one BIS for hybrid non-healers.   On a side note, PvP gear is pretty hardcore for Enhancement.

 

Thank you for the long reply! I never thought about acquiring gears in the end game, so your reply is very helpful.

 

I think your reply confirms my concerns that Shaman is okay but just not nearly as good as warlocks in pvp. I played Shaman in vanilla and it seems pretty good against casters like mage, priest or even warlocks but not so much against melees, especially rogues and federal druids.

 

It seems from your reply that Shaman just isn't that great at pvp but I thought that Elemental Shaman was actually pretty good, except against rogues and federal druids.

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It seems to me that for you Warlock represents what you know how to play well, and are accustomed to. Shaman seems to be your nostalgic class.

 

My recommendation: Play whatever you think feels coolest, and for you that seems to be Shammy. Don't bother much with what's good or bad.

 

Thanks for the advice! I guess, at this point, I'l probably play both classes. The problem now is really which one to start first.

 

You are definitely right that Shaman is my nostalgic class; I am also pretty enthusiastic about warlock too. The thing is, even without considering which one is good/bad or how hard it is get get gears in the end game, I still have a hard time to decide which one I should play. I mean they are both so awesome!!!

 

Again, thanks for the reply.

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Warlocks are cooler :P

 

 

For real we cant tell you what to play, try to look up information about both, and decide.

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Warlocks are cooler :P

 

 

For real we cant tell you what to play, try to look up information about both, and decide.

 

May I ask why you chose the Forsaken over Ocrs?  

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If only Tauren Warlocks were a thing, you would be so happy.

On that day, my tears will flood my laptop and probably destroy it completely...

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Warlock is the strongest pvp class no doubt. I played one on feenix and a well played lock can kill almost any class regardless of gear except for over geared warriors who are capable of 1 shotting. Thing is warlocks have little utility especially if you play with imp or voidwalker and go SL. I liked to play sm/ruin with a felhunter for dispels on self and teammate and silence in enemies. Make a macro for target grounding totem + send pet to attack and shamans are e-z pickins. Stack dots on 1 guy, spread around the appropriate curses to the right targets and blow nightfall procs on low hp targets for Kill steals and dominate the scoreboard meanwhile spam fearing some poor sucker into oblivion. If you do roll shaman please don't go windfury it's the most retarded spec ever. Elemental shamans who know how to throw a heal or 2 are infinitely better on a team than a wf shaman

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If you roll a Gnome Warlock and get the Orb Of Deception, you can literally become a Tauren Warlock, but it'd only be for a small while between CDs on the item. Tauren Shaman with the same orb can turn into a Gnome.

These are the combinations.

Human<->Orc

Dwarf<->Troll

Night Elf<->Undead

Gnome<->Tauren

It should noted though that the deviate fish already turns you into a Human, making the orb largely pointless on Orc. The same can be said about Night Elf, since nogger potions already turn you into Undead. The foods are more effective than the trinket, so when both have the same target race, the trinket is a waste.

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Night elf become a skeleton.  Not Undead like the race.   Those I have to say the skeleton is my favorite and will drink the nogger pots over and over until I get one while raiding :)

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There's a slight difference. The orb turns you into Forsaken, who have hair/face/clothes since they are people. The potion turns you into Scourge, who have none of these, because they are mindless drones. But all of the animations are the same, because the same base model is used for both. They just have a different paint job. I recommend the potions though as Night Elf because it doesn't hog a trinket slot, nor have a CD much longer than its own duration. The cost however depends upon how many nogger potions you buy in the long term. An orb is money wasted that could have been spent on MANY potions, but as a consumable, they will eventually run out, and in the long term, will inevitably end up sinking more gold than an orb, which has infinite uses off 1 purchase.

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Jesus christ there's a lot of bad info on here. First of all the best pvp specs for shaman are resto and elemental. Elemental is actually terrifyingly good once you get full bwl gear, with the highest on demand burst in all if vanilla while still healing fairly well with very high armor.

Warlocks are far from the strongest pvp class, they are viable and useful, but nothing beats frost mages and paladin's from an organized pvp perspective. Undead shadow priests generally do the same things that a warlock does while having the insanely important for horde dispel.

On top of this, shaman is the most in demand raiding class in vanilla due to totem utility for the horde while being very strong healers with 1.12 chain heal. The best guilds will want 8 resto shaman so every group gets totems. Meanwhile locks get 3-6 slots.

Warlocks are the weakest dps in the game in early vanilla due to no spell hit gear and the fact that warlocks are top 2 most reliant on gear with fury warriors since you scale so hard.

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Jesus christ there's a lot of bad info on here. First of all the best pvp specs for shaman are resto and elemental. Elemental is actually terrifyingly good once you get full bwl gear, with the highest on demand burst in all if vanilla while still healing fairly well with very high armor.

Warlocks are far from the strongest pvp class, they are viable and useful, but nothing beats frost mages and paladin's from an organized pvp perspective. Undead shadow priests generally do the same things that a warlock does while having the insanely important for horde dispel.

On top of this, shaman is the most in demand raiding class in vanilla due to totem utility for the horde while being very strong healers with 1.12 chain heal. The best guilds will want 8 resto shaman so every group gets totems. Meanwhile locks get 3-6 slots.

Warlocks are the weakest dps in the game in early vanilla due to no spell hit gear and the fact that warlocks are top 2 most reliant on gear with fury warriors since you scale so hard.

 

You just tremendously boosted my confidence in Shaman. LOL

 

Thanks for your info!!!

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8 restp shamans in a raid? Lol good luck with dem dispells

 

He isn't wrong about elemental sham in PvP though.

 

That фекал is scary as вау. You are literally a turret.

Edited by Shayss

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Generally in a perfect world healer scenario, guilds will run 8 resto shaman, 3 priests, and 1 druid. The only MC fights where dispelling is important are lucifron, shazz, and baron, which these top guilds will kill so fast that restorative potions will remove enough magic that the fight will be over before it's a problem. In BWL the standout is chromag, where those guilds may bring in 1-2 alts (that really just need int and mp/5 gear and mana potions since all they do is dispel, preraid is enough). Of course even the best guilds will struggle to have 8 resto shaman at all times, in which cases they will substitute in more priests and maybe 1 more druid.

 

This is because shaman totems are just overwhelmingly strong, with melee benefiting from WF +str of earth, healers benefiting from mana spring and mana tide, and casters benefiting from tranquil air + mana spring and tide. Not to mention resistance totems for the relevant fights. This is IN ADDITION to shaman being incredibly strong healers due to 1.12 chain heal being smart and having the bounces automatically go to low hp nearby players, being a fairly strong tank healer due to 25% armor bonus to tanks on crit, reincarnation being both a strong raid insurance for wipes AND strong if you are still going for a kill, where if you screw up and die you can rez yourself and mana pot and still be able to contribute a lot to a potential kill. You have the 2nd strongest healer OH фекал cool down for horde in the form of Natures Swiftness Max rank healing wave, that is only beaten by Druids Natures swiftness max rank healing touch.

 

Keep in mind from a PvE perspective, resto shaman are the only ones that generally get slots. Guilds may let in 1 enhancement shaman for Nightfall + totems, but that is a non efficient slot since both prot warriors and hunters keep up nightfall more effectively and overall will contribute more for their slot.

 

This does not mean that you will struggle to pick up elemental gear if you plan on pvping, since the majority of PvE elemental gear is either BiS for healing (the best example being Lokamir from Nef), or not contested since its mail spell damage gear which is only relevant to shaman anyways (example is deep earth shoulders from MC), or shaman only in the case of shaman tier 2, the shaman trinket from broodlord in BWL.

 

 

Now warlocks, while they start out as the weakest dps in the game, by the end of the game will be top 2 dps along with fury warriors. MC you are pretty trash dps, BWL you start catching up to the rest, AQ you are very competitive, Naxx you start pulling ahead.

Edited by Haestingas

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eew... 12 healers. I'd rather go 10 and have 2 more dps instead.

 

We ran 5/6 sham tops with 3/4 priests and a druid.

 

Edit: poor druids :(

Edited by Shayss

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I agree with most of what is said, but Priest and Druid are better single-target healers than Shamans in my opinion. They tend to run out of mana on really long fights, too. And isn't Claw of Chromaggus better for resto shamans than Lok'amir?
We need Scar in here to drop some knowledge.

Edited by cryofsorrow

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Yeah I'm using 12 healers from a max standpoint, generally top guilds once they have content on farm will want to start bringing in more dps for faster clears, especially once they start overgearing the instance and don't wipe so they retain world buffs for the entire instance. Shaman will still remain in those scenarios as the most in demand healer since you do more to reduce clear times than any other healer on horde.

Mp/5 for shaman is very strong, but the true try hard resto shaman that are in these top guilds will just chug major mana potions and runes and be fine from a mana perspective. The only fights that mp/5 is relevant is nefarian, time lapse Chromag (if your tank can't Dodge it), and twin emps.

For claw of chrom you also have to consider that claw can be used by mages and warlocks, while lokamir is only relevant for druids, shaman, and priests. Shadow priests lokamir is a no brainer, shaman its lokamir is better 90℅ of the time, druids it's bis, and holy priests have incredibly easy access to benediction which while weaker than lokamir/av flowers combo is insanely easy to get and they woukd be better off going for pure elementium band, Chromag pants, and rejuv gem.

Edited by Haestingas

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I assume you want to see big dick hps iskampari, obviously lokamir is the way to go...

First of all, lokamir belongs to your guilds core shadow priest. End. (The first lokamir at least).

Nah it isnt that easy to convert stats for healers without knowing the specific circumstances. Generally as a shaman you are required upfront at all times because of your totems. In a competitive environment, this limits your possible drinking time all the way to zero depending on how fast your tank moves forward. That as a premise. When your raid is sufficiently geared to roll through content in that manner, you wont need the additional heal power to prevent anyone from dying so I personally would rather take the additional mp5 and never drink, provided you dont have a raidleader without a clue who keeps saying "you have to be oom after an encounter". (No you dont, you have to make sure everyone survives the encounter and use as little mana as possible, so your raid can continue clearing right away.)

In an average guild its a closer call though, some encounters might benefit from shamans using lokamirs because stronger heals can limit the amount of deaths (you dont oom mid encounter with proper usage of consumables, so no need for the claw), then you have to sacrifice the mp5 and more potential of continuing the raid right away after the fight, but at least the encounter was sucessful.

But no matter if you are in a high end guild or in an average guild, claw is a valid alternative to lokamir even if you prefer lokamirs... druids dont really have such an alternative.

But now for the plottwist: chain heal mechanics were still bugged on nost shutdown, the bounces scaled with healpower even though only the initial should have... and the 2nd bounce calculates after the 1st bounce. Quite OP. And that means chain heal GREATLY benefits from heal power (lokamir), especially the bounces which jump to targets with a health deficit.

But wasnt this post about warlocks too? Some guy above said that locks suck in dps early game (due to lack of hit gear)? Warlocks rule in naxxramas :D. Sorry, I cant make it easy for the OP.

Oh and btw, if you arent a fan of bringing less healers and more dps in farm raids, because you want to keep a stable roster, you should consider hybrid specs to some degree. All priests should be PI specced - nobrainer. Shaman raidhealers may aswell spec into imp totems and drop mana tide + imp healing wave, they will be as reliant as chain healers and lesser healing wavers and boost melee dps more and can use 2 handers to auto swing whenever you dont need them to heal on trash mobs. Druids are kinda trickier, if you have more than one, he can spec up to +20% int in the kitty tree and do some off dps when you dont need him as a healer and decurse with a larger mana pool.

Edited by Aslan

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That plot twist though...

 

LEqy3Jx.gif

 

Literally every private server, some weird stuff going on. Didn't Nost also have shaman 8 piece bugged aswell? Mad mana stuff.

Edited by Shayss

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Yeah but pretty sure that got reported and it was claimed to not be a bug and working as intended. Pretty fair considering paladins never oom either :).

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