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Stormhart

Why do we like vanilla WoW?

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I am looking to trigger (dangerous choice of a word I know) some thoughts and discussion here, while we wait for release. Why do you think we like vanilla WoW? I’d like to stay away from the seemingly unavoidable comparison with retail or any expansion, where often “Retail sucks, Vanilla is best” is concluded. This is a valid opinion  for some of us here. But the community also seems to exist out of new players, who never played any version of WoW, like me (I played Nost a little before it’s shutdown). We aren’t all hardened veterans looking for nostalgia. There is something that attracts new players and I don’t think it’s just the hype.

 

For me vanilla is a perfect combination of a lore filled fantasy world, satisfying levelling and most of all exploration (both the world and the game mechanics). I remember looking up Argual’s history and story, after the first time I went to Shadowfang Keep. The quest log only told me so much and I felt engaged in the game’s story and lore, I wanted to know more. Something I haven’t found in much other games.

 

Let’s hear your opinion or ask me anything about my experience with vanilla WoW/Nost (PvP). 

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Ah yes, the classical thread where people reply, don't read others' posts and only check the thread to see if they were quoted.

 

Vanilla is all about the journey, I like adventurous journeys. Same reason I like DnD, 

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I've never played Vanilla, started during BC and kept playing through Cata (And some MoP. Didn't touch much the rest, it was pretty bad).

More than having a community and a world that feels alive, I love being able to log into an universe I love and not ask "What can I do now ?" but "What do I want to do now ?". It's such a specific difference that makes or breaks a game for me most of the time. Older WoW managed to give me that sense of freedom and escapism like few things managed to do, while new WoW and most if not all modern MMOs don't even come close to grasping that concept anymore.

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I prefer the way the world us alive and active, and social/reputation still matters. Zones have reasons to go back to them. Old raids don't become obsolete with the release of next tier raid. Demand for loot exceeds the supply as bosses drop 2 maybe 3 things for 40 people rather than 6 for 10 people.

You remember faces, a ninja is blasted about his foul actions to the point some have quit playing due to the ENTIRE relevant community refusing to play with them.

Gear is applicable for all parts of the game, no PvP only gear, PvE only gear. I can look at you and know what gear you got, non of that barbie/ken doll dress up crap.

RAID PREPARATIONS. While people may see this as a burden, I see this as emergence. If my quest was to group with an army (raid) to kill the leader of Blackrock, or an Old God, you would work as a team before going to ready yourself against the foes that wait before you. Not just raid log cause self buffs are all that are needed.

Edited by Undertanker

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Flying is bad. It's not blizzlike but if flight time were limited to 1min just to get to Botanica/Arc or Skettis than why not. Anyway in BC fly mounts only on lvl 70 so it's not affecting world pvp that much like these days

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Ah yes, the classical thread where people reply, don't read others' posts and only check the thread to see if they were quoted.

 

Vanilla is all about the journey, I like adventurous journeys. Same reason I like DnD, 

 Fair point, I feel committed to read every post. It's interesting to see varying anwser so far.

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Ah yes, the classical thread where people reply, don't read others' posts and only check the thread to see if they were quoted.

 

Vanilla is all about the journey, I like adventurous journeys. Same reason I like DnD, 

Perfect. +2.45

 

Also.. it's about the community.. making friends and helping each other. 

 

Running UBRS over and over again for Dal Rend's MH and OH for my rogue was some of the most fun I've ever hand in any MMO.

 

MY fav instance. Pulling the boss out with my hunter and kiting him to the Puppy and back. Trying to do Leeroy and kill whelps for Devout shoulders!

 

So many good memories and that is just one instance in Vanilla WOW! 

 

Solo run in LBRS to get my bite rank for off a worg was so much fun also. You are tip toe'ing through groups of mobs.. if you aggro any group you have to run and feign death and hope nothing glitches or they resist it (which I don't think they can).. but there were times if you did FD that you would still die :)

 

That whole journey to 60 was the best. Getting gank'd (don't make me get my main!) Gank'ing others.. 

 

I always kept a black list.. if anyone gank'd me I wrote there name down. If I ever saw them again and the opportunity arose I would always try to settle the score :)

 

   ~ Faith ~ 

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I prefer the way the world us alive and active, and social/reputation still matters. Zones have reasons to go back to them. Old raids don't become obsolete with the release of next tier raid. Demand for loot exceeds the supply as bosses drop 2 maybe 3 things for 40 people rather than 6 for 10 people.

You remember faces, a ninja is blasted about his foul actions to the point some have quit playing due to the ENTIRE relevant community refusing to play with them.

Gear is applicable for all parts of the game, no PvP only gear, PvE only gear. I can look at you and know what gear you got, non of that barbie/ken doll dress up crap.

RAID PREPARATIONS. While people may see this as a burden, I see this as emergence. If my quest was to group with an army (raid) to kill the leader of Blackrock, or an Old God, you would work as a team before going to ready yourself against the foes that wait before you. Not just raid log cause self buffs are all that are needed.

 

Yes this.. blacklists were real. If you were a jerk or a ninja looter .. there were consequences. Good skilled players became known.. almost famous. 

 

You have to remember Grim. That rogue was awesome!

 

I remember tales of his exploits. I got a name for myself on Doomhammer as being the priest that didn't OOM. That alone got me into a lot of raids. My hunter Shirl could unlock UBRS and that was had me on a lot of people's friends lists.

 

Those types of things are awesome! :)

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WoW lore is absolute фекал. It's a slap in the face, an insult to human intelligence. It's just generic recycled garbage.

 

There is no point in exploring the world. There is no gameplay difference based on zone at all. It's the same thing with slightly different decorations and textures.

 

The PvE grind is awful. It's completely repetitive. Utterly mindless. When a bot can level almost as efficiently as a human you know the gameplay is meaningless and absolutely sucks.

 

The game design was based first and foremost on psychological models. It was designed to take advantage of your subconscious to be addicting. Most of the satisfaction that people get is from forcing themselves through a torturous experience, being stressed, and then having that released by the magic whooshing sound effect and bright lights that accompany a level up.

 

After that it's just jerking off to purple colored text and item stats that you've been classically condition to value.

 

BUT WAIT, there is a redeeming factor.

Raiding/PvP and team building and strategy.

 

You actually have to apply some human intelligence to be good at these things to a certain extent.

 

But raiding for almost everyone is not about strategizing to use the resources available to accomplish the task at hand. It's about browbeating your guild to grind harder so you outgear encounters following the cookie-cutter strategy that you looked up online. Any actual innovation in strategy is almost always ridiculed as being "wrong". People would rather wipe endlessly following the Official Strategy than try anything new. Same goes for speccing and gearing: there is no tolerance for anything than the Best Official Way to Do Things, even though there are actually lots of more stable and reliable strategies available.

 

PvP isn't fundamentally bad but its still a grind.

 

Anyway, this game is mostly a pile of фекал infested with TOTALLY and COMPLETELY insane fractions of human beings.

 

But it is one of the best opportunities for a team-building strategy game there has ever been.

 

But like I said, that potential is sabotaged by real-life failures with the most massive raging inferiority complexes known to man.

 

This is the state of things, like it or not.

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Yes this.. blacklists were real. If you were a jerk or a ninja looter .. there were consequences. Good skilled players became known.. almost famous. 

 

You have to remember Grim. That rogue was awesome!

 

I remember tales of his exploits. I got a name for myself on Doomhammer as being the priest that didn't OOM. That alone got me into a lot of raids. My hunter Shirl could unlock UBRS and that was had me on a lot of people's friends lists.

 

Those types of things are awesome! :)

Blacklists have never effected anything

At most there is like one guy that everyone knows as trouble and its overblown BS

 

literally no one is every widely known as being the best on a given server

 

I think you just mistake a small circle of people you have contact with for "everyone"

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I like Vanilla WoW for the community mostly. No other game really offers the same deep community feeling, besides maybe Eve Online but that game requires a extreme time commitment.

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What I like in Vanilla is the difficulty. In live wow you can donate for max lvl and go straight to dungeons w/o even knowing your abilities and still clear it.

But the main thing I love is the time investment. You have to farm gear, consumes and whatnot, there's just soo much things to sink time into and that just makes me want to log in every day

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Blacklists have never effected anything

At most there is like one guy that everyone knows as trouble and its overblown BS

literally no one is every widely known as being the best on a given server

I think you just mistake a small circle of people you have contact with for "everyone"

:/ Go talk to the people on the confirmed ninja threads. If you were confirmed you ended up on a lot of ignore list, and wouldn't get invited. People doing guild recruitment monitor these things, raid leaders of pug raids check these during invited as well.

Great players do stand out, just as people remember the really shitty ones.

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So I came from Everquest to WoW...and the early days of WoW were close but not the same as how Everquest was. Everquest had a much more connected and vibrant community if you ask me. WoW improved gameplay a lot but Everquest still has that magic place in my heart as my favorite MMORPG.

 

Vanilla WoW did it right, TBC was solid but after that it falls off dramatically from what I see as my preferred style of MMO. Nothing being made lately even touches on it. I often wonder if any game will come out and recapture that style. 

 

Were these games so fun because of where we all were at in our lives at that time? Younger with time and no responsibilities? Was it because of the mystery in these games that are now solved? So many variables. But one thing for sure is that these types of communities are proof that there is a crowd for these older, classic, community based MMOs. 

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literally no one is every widely known as being the best on a given server

 

 

By Princess Poobah's balls & chains, I say !! Just how much more wrong can you be ?!? Undertalker here is a fookin legend on all servers he ever graced with his notable appearance !! Karl Tanner is zero compared to him !!!

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well for me its always been about the pvp

 

Pvp in world and in battlegrounds was just better during vanilla. Personally I've just always been too casual for ratings and rankings and don't really take the game seriously enough for it but I did kinda like the PVE of TBC as well as that new battleground they brought in I forget what its called Eye of the storm or something like that but it just wasn't the same after that with the arenas. The grand sense of community and teamwork kind of died with arenas for me and it was all more about ego stroking and showboating, not to take anything away from the skilled players who dominated arena but for casual pvpers like myself who worked full time and went to school arenas was something I could never really get into seriously and arenas just siphoned more players out of the battlegrounds which were more casual friendly. But basically what really makes vanilla great is its sense of community and teamwork and higher population just amplifies that feeling.

 

But pvp was simpler then. Sure it may not have been as balanced as it became later on after some expansions, but it was clean. All the changes they made throughout the expansions made it too "messy" for lack of a better term. Eventually, when you keep changing things around you make it too complicated, and even things that are supposed to be simple and fun become a chore. I've been playing on vanilla wow servers since feenix came out. I've played on almost every big private vanilla server that's come out since then even if only briefly. You name it: al akir, warsong, emerald dream, scriptcraft, molten wow, rebirth, corecraft, nostalrius, kronos 1 & 2, back to feenix again... All these servers eventually died for one reason or another but not because people suddenly got bored of vanilla wow and didn't want to play it again as nostalrius has proved. Feenix was a good server but not great. Every time a new server came out everybody left for that server until it eventually died then they came back. Then nostalrius launched and it killed all the other servers because everybody wanted to play on the popular server. Nost made a statement about vanilla wow that shocked the mmo world and could not be ignored not even by blizzard. Then blizzard killed Nost right when us vanilla wow junkies finally had something good going and everybody scattered back to their old dead servers and kronos

 

Against all the bugs, hacking, and any other type of things that is a detriment to a server nothing is worse than low population. Low population just decimates servers because its the one thing that will keep new players from wanting the start up on that server and existing players from staying on the server. That's why we loved nostalrius so much. It's not perfect it has its bugs, lag, chinese gold farmers, account sharing rankers, gankers and general asshats and more of them here than anywhere else just by sheer statistics.

but high population makes up for it because all the things that make vanilla great are amplified exponentially based off population.

There is a point where it can become too much though like when nost was at 14k players and enemy players were appearing on top of you because lag and there was 5 farmers for every node. TBH from my time on nostalrius it seemed like the world felt perfect when there was only about 6-8k players online, 14k was way too much and 4k is not enough. I'm hoping nost relaunch hovers around that number during prime times. High population really only bothers farmers and gatherers making competition for nodes and npcs very fierce but also means more value for those items you are farming. Its great for pvp in general and for pve for always having players for raids.

 

 

holy wall o' text that might be the biggest post I've ever posted on any forum lmao

Edited by nurga

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So I came from Everquest to WoW...and the early days of WoW were close but not the same as how Everquest was. Everquest had a much more connected and vibrant community if you ask me. WoW improved gameplay a lot but Everquest still has that magic place in my heart as my favorite MMORPG.

 

Vanilla WoW did it right, TBC was solid but after that it falls off dramatically from what I see as my preferred style of MMO. Nothing being made lately even touches on it. I often wonder if any game will come out and recapture that style. 

 

Were these games so fun because of where we all were at in our lives at that time? Younger with time and no responsibilities? Was it because of the mystery in these games that are now solved? So many variables. But one thing for sure is that these types of communities are proof that there is a crowd for these older, classic, community based MMOs. 

MMOs have become mainstream and steamlined (modern) WoW clones. MMOs cost a lot to make so companies don't want to take risks so they copy the big ones. We have yet to see a new MMO that doesn't sacrifice what makes a MMO, a MMO for the shake of convenience to cater to the largest audience possible.

I also think datamining is фекал and any MMO hoping to be good shouldn't allow it. There's nothing surprising anymore.

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-No instant gratification crap, things actually take time, which makes you more invested in your character

 

-No ezmode epics and welfare gear, you have to earn your rewards

 

-No shitty class homogenization, classes feel unique and play differently from each other

 

-No instant-teleport LFD, you actually have to travel places, which makes the world actually feel like a world. The over-abundance of teleports and instancing in retail makes it feel less like a world and more like a lobby game

 

-No cross-realm фекал, so the good players and bad players will be known; people are actually held responsible for how they act in groups.

 

-You actually have to communicate with people to do group content

 

-There's actually lots of group content outside of dungeons/raids, unlike retail where even "elite" world quests can be solo'd very easily

 

-Broken up quest flow forces you to explore the world and do every quest you can across multiple zones at the same time, as opposed to retail where you're practically on rails, going from one convenient quest hub to the next, to the next, to the next, and halfway through the zone you outlevel it and move on to the next zone without even finishing your current quests

 

-Interesting gear with lots of unique pieces, compared to retail where everything is just primary stat + crit/haste/vers/mastery

 

-Questing is actually challenging, there's actually a risk of dying. You can't just go around wildly pulling 10+ mobs and effortlessly AoE'ing them all down like you can in retail. Plus you have фекал like random-wandering elites (Mor'Ladim, etc) that make the zones feel dangerous.

 

Among other things.

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Blacklists have never effected anything

At most there is like one guy that everyone knows as trouble and its overblown BS

 

literally no one is every widely known as being the best on a given server

 

I think you just mistake a small circle of people you have contact with for "everyone"

 

You completely missed the point of an MMO. Also, I really hope I NEVER have the pleasure of grouping with someone who clearly has no imagination whatesoever. You must be pencil pusher of some kind. Consider yourself on my blacklist if that is the name you play under I will never allow you in my group.

 

 

Cheers 

 

   ~ Faith ~

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Open world pvp and very high social interaction lvl. So it feels you're actually playing an MMO.

+2.2

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By Princess Poobah's balls & chains, I say !! Just how much more wrong can you be ?!? Undertalker here is a fookin legend on all servers he ever graced with his notable appearance !! Karl Tanner is zero compared to him !!!

Yah I like uncle but I keep waiting on , even though it's the wrong context... "By MERLIN'S BEARD!!".. :)

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