Jump to content
Plask

Buff Thunderfury (the not so legendary weapon)

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Theloras said:

with the 1.9 mainhand change/nerf it remains true though whether you want to insult people or not bro

Only goes to show that you have no idea why warriors use TF in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, bunbuns said:

Only goes to show that you have no idea why warriors use TF in the first place.

only goes to show that you need to qq moar about blizzlike/progressive timelines

you want your TF back, fine then give me back spell damage scaling on

- Force Reactive Disk

- Venomhide Poison

- Lifestealing enchant

and we'll call it even mmmk?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Slicy said:

They probably didn't even make it "according to the patch" on purpose you know ? xD

In fact they fixed the mistake in this Patch and this should not be reversed , otherwise ALL servers should have Paladin 1.9 Judgement sets instead changing them 3 times over their Patches because "Blizzard made a mistake and fixed it at late patch" . 

That's the logic here what i see.

If they decide to reverse engineer Thunderfury , then they should also reverse engineer Paladin Tiers to ALL servers.

https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/37406-bring-back-original-paladin-tier-1-lawbringer-stats/

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Slicy said:

Hey Theloras, what about getting your facts straight or just improving your reading comprehension a tad bit ?

It has been explained here (and you can check on Nost forums) that the least worst version of the weapon (aka usable and good but not overpowered) is with 25% proc rate. That was Nostalrius design choice after a lot of research, digging and discussions.

There is no reason to render the weapon entirely useless here (other than satisfying those who don't have the weapon and are mad about it I guess) if the staff actually cares about their design choices (which is the case since a 100% progressive itemization is simply dumb and would detail towards progression on talents and class mechanics as well with all the "muh blizzlike" white-knights).

You don't have to spill your rage here that Nost didn't make the choice to buff your T2 Judgement set pieces. You can also stop feeling entitled to hijack every single thread to expose for the 2450th time paladin related bugs that needs fixing or not  when it is barely relevant with the actual topic.

I'm not talking about Paladin bugs here at all - merely pointing out items which had their spell damage scaling completely removed according to the original Blizzlike progression during Vanilla.

Yea, it sucks and I miss these items scaling with spell damage but what you gonna do?

I'm not trying to hijack this thread either - if anything I would love to see this nerf reversed cuz my GM Atredes had literally just gotten his 2nd binding the week before.

It's all about having perspective on the fact that this is a progressive private server trying to emulate Blizzard's original timeline as much as they can.

Tier 1 Lawbringer and Tier 2 Judgement were originally full Retribution sets until 1.6 when they got neutered into +healing pieces of $hit

Tier 1 is still +lolhealing but at least now Tier 2 has some of its STR back as well as +spell damage with patch 1.9 even though I lost my fun damage dealing items/spells like Force Reactive Disk, Venomhide Poison and Lifestealing Enchant.

Edited by Theloras

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Theloras and Killerduki, both of you are seeing only one part of this discussion, ignoring all the other factors, and making comparisons that are all easily refutable. 

Pally T2 can't be reversed because Pally T2 is balanced around raid content, the class Paladin and it's talents and spells. Also balanced around all the other items available at that patch. This is a item stat balance comparison to a legendary item that you can't compare any item to and it is not balanced around ANY class, or ANY other item. Do you see the difference? I'm going to say no, because both of you have a history of derailing thread because it doesn't suite your Paladin demands, or entitlements. "Because I can argue this point, I'll argue this point" is not an excuse for bringing up the same points refuted multiple amount of times. Nobody here wants to repeat themselves over and over again, and here I am doing it for maybe the 6th time because neither of you are comprehending the arguments made.

Spellpower scaling on TF can't be brought back because it is TOO overpowered. SP scaling TF can't be emulated on Elysium/Darrowshire/Zeth'kur either (all 3 servers are in patch 1.6/1.7 or below) it would be unfair to all the other players on those 3 servers if a TF was released like the original TF. Proc rate 30%, scales with SP, and procs off itself and trinkets/poisons/enchants/totems. Elysium wants to be accurate in emulating TF, they have to go out of their way and specifically code this item in this way, so that their community feels the same outrage as Blizzard's community did in 2005.

Anathema has crossed that overpowered stage into the super weak stage. The previous admins of Anathema and the community BOTH agreed that that OVERPOWERED TF was not going to implemented by instead compromising and sticking to 1 TF version that works. This is TF that has no glory, it is just useful for raiders. PvPers don't get effed by it or with it, it is almost irrelevant for them. If you want the glory of TF back, you have to implement TF 1.0 which is going to make all the other players on those 3 servers miserable. 

Theloras and Killerduki, I implore you to not derail this topic and make it about Paladins like you two have done many times. Neither of you will come up with a situation that hasn't already been thought of by the community regarding TF. I repeat, you can't compare this specific item, which happens to be legendary to any other item. Paladin T2 is balanced around its class, its spells and talents and of other competitive items at that level. Paladin T2 is not 1 legendary item used by multiple classes of multiple spec. Paladin T2 is for Paladins in Paladin-like situations. 

I would like to ask Moderators to watch Theloras and Killerduki as they have a history of doing this and derailing topics. Even in Class forums that aren't their own class. Please do not let them turn this into a non-constructive thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised anyone hasn't added those two to their ignore list yet. Mine only has three names on it, and adding those two was the first item of business when these forums came online :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nahh, ignoring them would be too unblizzlike. Paladins bitched and moaned incessantly all the way back in 2006 so it's only appropriate to have a few around that do that now ;).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, killerduki said:

That's why you don't have to spill the rage for Elysium making Thunderfury according to the Patch instead having it overpowered 25% which shouldn't be even 25%  but 20-25 (variate).

/Kind regards Killerduki

Except they did not. Thunderfury procrate is stock mangos and in no Elysium Item patches is this changed. If you don't believe me CTRL+F the TF ID in itemization patches and check the Elysium DB, TF clearly has a 5.24 PPM which is ~15% procrate. This has been mentioned several times and yet you insist on arguing and go on derailing the thread. Honestly do you think anyone cares about your pala dungeon gear not being itemized well for you? Paladin tanks are garbage and it's completely irrelevant to this thread. Go make your own thread.

Edited by Plask

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Walgrave - did I ask once in this thread for Thunderfury to gain spell damage scaling back? The answer is no.

What I did say was that if you want to get your pre-nerf TF back then we should get our spell damage scaling back on Force Reactive Disk, Venomhide Poison and Lifestealing.

I merely pointed out that our TIER SETS were complete garbage from the +healing added on to them from patch 1.6-1.9 (aka 95% of my entire /played on both Nost and Elysium)

Nost and now Elysium are following progressive Blizzard timelines so again if you don't like it, go play on Feenix and quit QQing about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I demand for server to Buff all the Items and <Make NOPE Great Again> , so we can have all Items at 1.12 Patch ...  Maybe then the QQ for Legendary Item will finally be over..

/Kind regards Killerduki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea, both of you need to be banned frankly from the forums.

Where is the GM team moderating this? Where is the staff response to the most sought out item on Anathema? Do we need Reddit army to get a response to anything around here?

Edited by Walgrave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Walgrave said:

Yea, both of you need to be banned frankly from the forums.

Where is the GM team moderating this? Where is the staff response to the most sought out item on Anathema? Do we need Reddit army to get a response to anything around here?

banned for what exactly - telling you that if you want 1.12.1 itemization that perhaps you should choose a different server?

I haven't violated the ToS here nor have I insulted, sworn at or spewed racist/sexist garbage or DOXed anyone like Plask and his Oil of Immolation abuse fanboys did to my wife and I back on Feenix.

Edited by Theloras

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought long and hard about this one too.  Holding off on posting until a true position could be offered on the subject that was of facts rather than opinion and preference. 

While the nerf sucks, it is still a decent aggro weapon, though not as good for DPS users.      That being said, I've tried to consider many reasons they devs wanted this nerf.   Perhaps the best argument is because patch yada yada yada had something working up until x point of the game.  Wanting to give the closest feeling possible to Vanilla.   I can respect that.

People can argue Blizzard's reasoning and logic behind certain changes but that is not what the emulation is about if the ideology stated above is the goal.

This ideology has been respected with item changes such as Spirit of the Zanza costing 3 tokens AND persist through death.  Expect this to change to 1 token and not persist later on.   Force Reative Disk, and other items scaling with SP being removed in 1.9.  (they removed this a few weeks before 1.9, as I used obtained the Hero Charm from ZG to pair with the disk for AoE pulls) Now we are on 1.9 it shouldn't scale, other servers still should though.  Pre-nerfed AV, pre-upgraded/changed T1/T2 sets, and so on.

That being said; if the "blizz-like" ideology is to be followed, cherry picking which items do and do not align with the "goal" shouldn't be an option.

I present to you all:

Biznicks 247x128 Accurascope

This item is scripted to the 1.12.1 standards of "Blizzard Adjustments".  ie: only affects ranged.   It wasn't changed to ranged only until patch 1.10.  Blizzard openly discussed their "oversight" on allowing this to affect melee, though chose to wait on the adjustment due to the money and time investments (sound familiar?) the community put into this scope.  (prices were HIGH for a crafter due to the pattern itself being removed from drop tables after the discovered OPness for melee, allowing limited crafters to set a high market).   Similarly, blizzard openly discussed the OPness of TF proccing off itself (including the debuff) causing chain reaction procs off TF making it too strong.  They attempted to balance it, it got underturned, and was balanced at a community acceptable level eventually.

So which ideology are we holding true to?  Patch notes dictate all?   End game balancing dictate all?    The treatment of Thunderfury vs Biznicks doesn't respect either one.   You provide a 1.9 TF proc (which was still in the process of blizzard finding a balance), you provide a non 1.9 Bliznicks scope.  Both of which impact progression gameplay and itemization on opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

I'll see myself out.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 to Undertanker for a well thought out and logical explanation of the slippery slope that the TF nerf getting reverted would lead to.

I disagree with the way Blizzard rolled out their progression over the entire timeline during vanilla but we are we are here on Elysium and they have decreed to follow the same progression timeline that Nostalrius began.

You can hate me for being the bearer of bad news, but it doesn't make what I'm saying any less true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Theloras said:

banned for what exactly - telling you that if you want 1.12.1 itemization that perhaps you should choose a different server?

I haven't violated the ToS here nor have I insulted, sworn at or spewed racist/sexist garbage or DOXed anyone like Plask and his Oil of Immolation abuse fanboys did to my wife and I back on Feenix.

Yeah I told my fanboys to trashtalk your wife, best decision of My life. #tinfoilhaton #howcouldanyonehatetheloras

Once again you missed the whole point of the thread, you have not partaken in the discussion but are instead spewing delusional paladin bullshit completely unrelated. Nobody can take you serious, this is why ppl troll you.. 

You got doxxed and insulted on feenix because most of the fanbase despised you since you derailed literally every topic. 

Edited by Plask

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Undertanker, while your points are what we have already discussed, minus the Biznicks comparison which is a good one. So is the PvP sets for Rank 12 and Rank 13 we recently had with the dev team. There's a practicality problem of emulating TF I said over and over again that makes the proc rate argument extremely simple ... I will highlight them in bullet points as people keep ignoring this. 

There's essentially 5 TFs you'd have to emulate individually for each server. 

  • TF 1.0 MH - 30% proc rate, procs from itself, enchants, trinkets, poisons. Scales with SP. 
  • TF 2.0 MH - 15% proc rate, procs from itself, enchants, trinkets, poisons. Scales with SP.
  • TF 3.0 MH - 15% proc rate, does not proc from itself, enchants, trinkets, poisons. Doesn't scale with SP. (ManGOS default, current Elysium TF)
  • TF 4.0 MH - 20-25% proc, does not proc from itself, enchants, trinkets, poisons. Doesn't scale with SP.
  • TF 5.0 1H - 25% does not proc from itself, enchants, trinkets, poisons. Doesn't scale with SP. (Blizzard's balanced one, old Nost version)

Practical problems in emulation of these TFs.

  • You'd be asking Elysium staff to maintain 5 different TFs in 4 servers. Each TF changing depended on Patch. That's 5 TF changes per server, 20 TF changes on Elysium project. 
  • 2nd practical argument is that TF 1.0 & 2.0 (procs off itself poisons enchants trinkets) is not coded, there was never a TF 1.0 on MaNGOS core. It would have to be coded and activated for an individual server which is below patch 1.8.0 (all but Anathema atm). 
  • Explaining all of this to the community. 

What old Nost did, and what the community of TF holders want (at least us vocal ones) is 1 version, for all servers, that is NOT strong, NOT weak. 

Edited by Walgrave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me refute your argument with an live example here from Elysium's different servers - there are THREE different versions of Tier 2 Judgement armor.

- one is on the uber brand new servers and have +STR and +AGI = Ret gear

- one is on Elysium PvP and had all of its +STR and +AGI removed for +Healing only = Holy gear

- one is here on Anathema and is set to the most recognized version from 1.9 onwards which is +spell dmg and healing with a bit of +STR

Each of these follow the original blizzard progression timeline - yes I know I'm sounding like a broken record but it is what it is.

Similarly there are two versions of Tier 1 Lawbringer on the different servers as well - one has loads of STR and AGI while the other got nerfed into +healing $hit ville.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Walgrave said:

Undertanker, while your points are what we have already discussed, minus the Biznicks comparison which is a good one. So is the PvP sets for Rank 12 and Rank 13 we recently had with the dev team. There's a practicality problem of emulating TF I said over and over again that makes the proc rate argument extremely simple ... I will highlight them in bullet points as people keep ignoring this. 

There's essentially 5 TFs you'd have to emulate individually for each server. 

  • TF 1.0 MH - 30% proc rate, procs from itself, enchants, trinkets, poisons. Scales with SP. 
  • TF 2.0 MH - 15% proc rate, procs from itself, enchants, trinkets, poisons. Scales with SP.
  • TF 3.0 MH - 15% proc rate, does not proc from itself, enchants, trinkets, poisons. Doesn't scale with SP. (ManGOS default, current Elysium TF)
  • TF 4.0 MH - 20-25% proc, does not proc from itself, enchants, trinkets, poisons. Doesn't scale with SP.
  • TF 5.0 1H - 25% does not proc from itself, enchants, trinkets, poisons. Doesn't scale with SP. (Blizzard's balanced one, old Nost version)

Practical problems in emulation of these TFs.

  • You'd be asking Elysium staff to maintain 5 different TFs in 4 servers. Each TF changing depended on Patch. That's 5 TF changes per server, 20 TF changes on Elysium project. 
  • 2nd practical argument is that TF 1.0 & 2.0 (procs off itself poisons enchants trinkets) is not coded, there was never a TF 1.0 on MaNGOS core. It would have to be coded and activated for an individual server which is below patch 1.8.0 (all but Anathema atm). 
  • Explaining all of this to the community. 

What old Nost did, and what the community of TF holders want (at least us vocal ones) is 1 version, for all servers, that is NOT strong, NOT weak. 

And there's another reason for server merges that I've been arguing for in another thread. No need to maintain different working mechanics in different patches for different items for different weapons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Plask said:

Yeah I told my fanboys to trashtalk your wife, best decision of My life. #tinfoilhaton #howcouldanyonehatetheloras

yea by posting pictures and video links of us and sending her messages over facebook - tinfoilhat all you want but you tards went after my WIFE over a video game for christ sake...which you openly abused and then bragged about

Edited by Theloras

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

STOP posting Paladin comparisons. You can't compare Paladin T2 stat item changes based on Paladin spells/talents/itemization and other items of that content to a legendary item which is not based on any other item but only itself

@Shenna: May I get some moderation powers? Your team is not present here forcing me to repeat myself to these two special forum dwellers that have no reading comprehension for days now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Theloras said:

yea by posting pictures and video links of us and sending her messages over facebook - tinfoilhat all you want but you tards went after my WIFE over a video game for christ sake...

You're blaming me for the fact that you made enemies with most of the forums? Yes you're annoying since you spam every thread about hybrid paladins but definetly not worth that kind of time, hence the tinfoil hat. I'll show myself out..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Plask said:

You're blaming me for the fact that you made enemies with most of the forums? Yes you're annoying since you spam every thread about hybrid paladins but definetly not worth that kind of time, hence the tinfoil hat. I'll show myself out..

So you're saying that going after my wife was fair game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Walgrave said:

STOP posting Paladin comparisons. You can't compare Paladin T2 stat item changes based on Paladin spells/talents/itemization and other items of that content to a legendary item which is not based on any other item but only itself

@Shenna: May I get some moderation powers? Your team is not present here forcing me to repeat myself to these two special forum dwellers that have no reading comprehension for days now. 

cuz your argument is full of $hit Walgrave - suck it up buttercup - or go play on a 1.12.1 server

Edited by Theloras

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Theloras said:

So you're saying that going after my wife was fair game?

2 minutes ago, Theloras said:

cuz your argument is full of $hit Walgrave - suck it up buttercup - or go play on a 1.12.1 server

WTB Forum moderation. Paying 100g. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Walgrave said:

WTB Forum moderation. Paying 100g. 

your item got nerfed and now you and Plask are crying like babies on the forums about it

I lost spell dmg scaling on all of these:

- Force Reactive Disk

- Lifestealing Enchant

- Venomhide Poison

- Fiery Plate Gauntlets

- Storm Gauntlets

- Fiery Retributer

- Blazefury Medallion

And I wasn't able to use my TIER gear for over a year since it only had +healing on it.

Did I cry on the forums?

No, cause Elysium was following Blizzard's progressive timeline.

Be a man and suck it up or do you plan on donating then doing a chargeback if you don't get what you want?

Edited by Theloras

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×