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killerduki

Why Thunderfury is better for Protection Paladin instead of Protection Warrior

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Paladins eventually can double proc it thanks to Seal of Righteousness , instead of being 25% proc rate as Warriors can have currently , it goes up to 50% proc rate as Paladin Tank.

Enjoy

/Kind regards Killerduki

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Thunderfury is based off a PPM. doesnt matter how many hits you do in under a minute. the total procs will be over an Average amount. 

 

most procs go off this same system to account for slower/faster weapons including haste effects to melee (flurry/slicendice) otherwise you would be spamming procs with super fast hits and slower hits would be punished and not benefit from the proc effect.

download the proc watch addon and hit a mob in blasted lands with and without SoR(the ones that dont die, the servents). you'll see a net average amount of procs being near the same for both tests.

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22 minutes ago, Imbaslap said:

Thunderfury is based off a PPM. doesnt matter how many hits you do in under a minute. the total procs will be over an Average amount. 

That is TBC.  The game doesn't limit procs to ensure you only get x amount of procs in 1 minute.

It will always be 25%.  

Enchants will adjust proc rate % of said enchant; based on based weapon speed and increased swing haste does not change this BASE WEAPON SPEED.

What I am thinking Killderduki is trying to say is that SoR counts as seperate damage and that SoR will proc TF.  So each auto was 2x 25% chance to proc.

IF this is true, the % shouldn't be additive however.

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3 hours ago, Imbaslap said:

Thunderfury is based off a PPM. doesnt matter how many hits you do in under a minute. the total procs will be over an Average amount. 

 

most procs go off this same system to account for slower/faster weapons including haste effects to melee (flurry/slicendice) otherwise you would be spamming procs with super fast hits and slower hits would be punished and not benefit from the proc effect.

download the proc watch addon and hit a mob in blasted lands with and without SoR(the ones that dont die, the servents). you'll see a net average amount of procs being near the same for both tests.

This is incorrect. While it is true that the proc may be on a PPM table, it is not restricted by an internal CD to "assure" a maximum amount of procs in a set timeframe, this was indeed a TBC-thing as Undertaker describes it bellow. This means that Thunderfury can proc alot more than the PPM-states because it can proc off of instant attacks that arent included in the PPM. The same applies to enchants such as Crusader. Crusader will have a 1PPM if only auto-hitting, but this will go up because instant attacks will trigger the proc.

2 hours ago, Undertanker said:

That is TBC.  The game doesn't limit procs to ensure you only get x amount of procs in 1 minute.

It will always be 25%.  

Enchants will adjust proc rate % of said enchant; based on based weapon speed and increased swing haste does not change this BASE WEAPON SPEED.

What I am thinking Killderduki is trying to say is that SoR counts as seperate damage and that SoR will proc TF.  So each auto was 2x 25% chance to proc.

IF this is true, the % shouldn't be additive however.

That is correct. Killerduki makes an incorrect assumption though that paladins will get more procs because of this. TF will proc from warrior instant attacks aswell (or atleast it should), I guess you should be able to confirm or deny this since you have one yourself.

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instant attacks duki, instant attacks...

Why is a protection warrior better than a protection paladin ?

//Discuss

 

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13 minutes ago, Slicy said:

instant attacks duki, instant attacks...

Why is a protection warrior better than a protection paladin ?

//Discuss

 

 

gif-kermityping.gif

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58 minutes ago, Slicy said:

instant attacks duki, instant attacks...

Why is a protection warrior better than a protection paladin ?

//Discuss

 

Paladin doesnt have taunt. He cannot tank aoe + elite because mages or warlock gets meaty crit and paladin has no way to prevent his death.

I gave this as an example because aoe tanking is only thing they can do good.

Also there are more magic immune/shield mobs than melle immune working against paladin tanks.

Again <<<<NO TAUNT>>>>

Boss mechanics require taunts.

No LAST STAND, SHIELD WALL, very important skills that secure enough time for dps to kill boss in last 5-10% in wipe situations and securing kills on progression when not geared in MC/BWL early on.

Paladins have no set bonus and gear for tanking, require to take hits in order to generate aggro, cant tank for a long time becuase of mana.

Cant tank annihilators in MC. Cant tank half the bosses in bwl/Aq and packs in AQ.

To catter around all these disabilities you make your dps waste their cds and procs making them hold back ALOT as you gear up in BWL and AQ. Mage with ignite in AQ will generate more threat than paladin can do on ST and bosses making warriors much better.

More dead dps healers slower raid with paladin tank, because again NO TAUNT. (no BOP is not a substitute for taunt it is not equal becuase paladin doesnt get aggro back it just jumps to next target in threat list.)

Paladins are good tanks in tbc but still not better than warriors.

In vanilla they are plain worse.

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1 hour ago, Slicy said:

instant attacks duki, instant attacks...

Why is a protection warrior better than a protection paladin ?

//Discuss

 

latest?cb=20060927235910

Shield Block
10 rage

Instant 5 sec cooldown

Increases chance to block by 75% for 5 sec, but will only block 2 attacks. (Improved)

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3 hours ago, Storfan said:

That is correct. Killerduki makes an incorrect assumption though that paladins will get more procs because of this. TF will proc from warrior instant attacks aswell (or atleast it should), I guess you should be able to confirm or deny this since you have one yourself.

I am not incorrect about this , but you misunderstood how SoR working.

Yes, it might proc from Warrior instant attacks , but those attacks will just replace their own attack or will speed their attacks.

SoR is separate attack which proc from each swing and it does proc same as white swings, which mean 1 swing for Paladins = 2 swings = 2 procs at once.

2 procs at once = 50% proc rate for us (you can see that on the Video).

7 hours ago, Imbaslap said:

Thunderfury is based off a PPM. doesnt matter how many hits you do in under a minute. the total procs will be over an Average amount. 

 

most procs go off this same system to account for slower/faster weapons including haste effects to melee (flurry/slicendice) otherwise you would be spamming procs with super fast hits and slower hits would be punished and not benefit from the proc effect.

download the proc watch addon and hit a mob in blasted lands with and without SoR(the ones that dont die, the servents). you'll see a net average amount of procs being near the same for both tests.


Inb4 Imbaslap try to call it Exploits like he did already :D

/Kind regards Killerduki

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10 minutes ago, killerduki said:

I am not incorrect about this , but you misunderstood how SoR working.

Yes, it might proc from Warrior instant attacks , but those attacks will just replace their own attack or will speed their attacks.

SoR is separate attack which proc from each swing and it does proc same as white swings, which mean 1 swing for Paladins = 2 swings = 2 procs at once.

2 procs at once = 50% proc rate for us.

/Kind regards Killerduki

Warrior instant abilities does not replace or affect automatic white swings. There are however 2 exceptions:

HS - Replaces your white auto attack with a yellow.

Slam - stops swingtimer. (Noone uses this anyways).

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Yes, it might proc from Warrior instant attacks , but those attacks will just replace their own attack or will speed their attacks.

Do you even know how to instant attack?

it does not replace their own attack or speed them up. An instant attack is seperate to autoattacks and creates individual extra attacks which proc TF.

If you spam shieldslam, sunder armor and revenge every global (1,5sec) then you will have even higher proc rate than with SoR (1,9sec).

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6 minutes ago, Meagelcarven said:

If you spam shieldslam, sunder armor and revenge every global (1,5sec) then you will have even higher proc rate than with SoR (1,9sec).

And you will have the Rage for that to spam on CD or you do spam Sunder on CD when you got 5 stacks?

/Kind regards Killerduki

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Depends on the Boss and the gear of the tank. For soft hitting Bosses like... everything in MC you may have longer periods where you can not spam everything on CD, but i haven't tanked Bosses in a long time, so you need to ask a tank about that.

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3 minutes ago, Meagelcarven said:

Depends on the Boss and the gear of the tank. For soft hitting Bosses like... everything in MC you may have longer periods where you can not spam everything on CD, but i haven't tanked Bosses in a long time, so you need to ask a tank about that.

SoR depends on nothing , it lands , with that it causes either double proc or proccing each swing for just 100 mana per 30 seconds (getting regen much more than spent thanks to spirit).

JoR also proc this thing either , giving it little higher than 50% , but i don't count it due to "useless to spam on cd".

/Kind regards Killerduki

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4 minutes ago, killerduki said:

And you will have the Rage for that to spam on CD or you do spam Sunder on CD when you got 5 stacks?

/Kind regards Killerduki

1. That's beside the point. You dont have to change the subject, instead acknowledge the fact that you now know how warrior attacks work.

2. Most BWL bossfights allows you to spam these 3 abilities. Worth noting is that Sunder generate threat even after 5 stacks are up.

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5 minutes ago, Storfan said:

1. That's beside the point. You dont have to change the subject, instead acknowledge the fact that you now know how warrior attacks work.

2. Most BWL bossfights allows you to spam these 3 abilities. Worth noting is that Sunder generate threat even after 5 stacks are up.

he obviously doesnt have a clue what he is talking about.

 

i wonder why you guys argue with him anyway. anyone besides him knows warriors are superior.

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4 minutes ago, Storfan said:

1. That's beside the point. You dont have to change the subject, instead acknowledge the fact that you now know how warrior attacks work.

 

Or even worse, Shall Shield slam be counted as Attack affected by Shields instead Weapon or shall it proc abilities at all?

And yep doing sunders when 5 stacks on target, i doubt that.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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dude, stop embarassing yourself. Everybody is laughing at you already... of course warriors spam sunder armor even after 5 stacks because it generates just the same amount of threat as with 0 stacks.

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1 minute ago, Meagelcarven said:

dude, stop embarassing yourself. Everybody is laughing at you already... of course warriors spam sunder armor even after 5 stacks because it generates just the same amount of threat as with 0 stacks.

That was my point.

But i like how skyrock warriors coming with the 3 mention abilities where they should dump down their HS in order to make this proc twice.

Unlike them , for Paladins cost nothing and can do all abilities instead.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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Ok, time to quote some Mark Twain.

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

Do whatever you think is right and have fun with the game.

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7 minutes ago, Meagelcarven said:

Ok, time to quote some Mark Twain.

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

Do whatever you think is right and have fun with the game.

I think you are the misunderstood completely here, Sunders will do speed your next swing down to 1.5 second, but SoR will cause either double or extra proc each 1.9 second.

Which mean , you can have 2 procs as Paladin each 1.9 seconds vs 2 procs as Warrior each 3 seconds due to global CD.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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