Jump to content
Ravid

Shadow Priest gear priority

Recommended Posts

This is dealing with an experience I had with earlier on my server.

I was running a PUG AQ20 as a shadow priest when we killed Ossi and the Staff of Ruins and Black Blizzard pants dropped. The raid wasn't +1 and both were upgrades over my Sorcers Dagger and Bag of Whammies, and my ZG +20 sp pants (can't remember name).

Here's the issues: all AQ20 spell power gear has crit on it. EVERY SINGLE PIECE. By having crit, warlocks and mages automatically assume it's just for them. Now I know that shadow priests prioritize spell crit the lowest, but there were massive SP increases on both pieces over my current. So I did what any caster would do and rolled on them. I won the staff which was cool, and then I won the pants as well. After this happened there was an uproar. Keep in mind, I am hit capped. 

Immediately I was attacked for having no BV pants (not needed, hit capped), and was told that I would not be getting the pants. When I began to object I was kicked from the raid and discord and FLAMED to the max by [insert mage and warlock here]. I was told I was greedy and that I'm terrible because I rolled on the pants.

 

So here's the thing. I discussed it with my guild and they agreed with me that just because a piece has crit DOES NOT mean I should be completely sidelined over other casting classes.

There seems to be this common attitude that because you're a shadow priest you just need to buff warlocks and shut up. Your damage is negligible and blah blah blah blah. I believe this argument is absolute bullshit.

My preraid best in slot for leg is Flarecore Leggings, not BV in the first place (assuming hit cap). Even if I had those, Black Blizz offers 16 int, 8 spirit, and 1% crit over them for 200-300g less (free basically). Granted crit isn't my main stat, but crit does help (shadow priests do actually use mindblast in raids). Don't even get me started on BV. Over bloodvine we're talking 4 SP, 10 INT, 14 STAM, 8 SPI, 1% crit. These stats are absolutely NOT negligible.

 

So my question is, am I the asshole because I won the roll? Should I just sit and shut up? Does 1% crit mean those legs are not for me at all? Let's put asside the whole "get fel infused leggings noob" argument. It's not going to happen. Those legs might as well be on Venus on my server.

And besides that, the raid wasn't +1. I realize it's two pieces of gear, but the other day our guild brought a green non guild mage to ZG and he won 4 epics off us. We didn't bitch or whine or complain. That's how it goes. 

Are we just secondary to every other caster? Mages are interchangeable.

Shadow priests are not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In short, you are in a PUG and an item dropped for you that is 2nd BiS (next to a world boss drop). You have every right to roll on that item. 

Yes, it is a bigger upgrade for mages IF they have the gear to break BV. Warlocks shouldn't be big contenders on that item because their BiS gear set right now includes BV with full t2.5 being very close to that (in which case they use t2.5 legs). 

 

On another note, though, do you have neltharion's tear? If not, I don't see how you have sufficient pre-raid and not need to be using BV legs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Ravid said:

This is dealing with an experience I had with earlier on my server.

I was running a PUG AQ20 as a shadow priest when we killed Ossi and the Staff of Ruins and Black Blizzard pants dropped. The raid wasn't +1 and both were upgrades over my Sorcers Dagger and Bag of Whammies, and my ZG +20 sp pants (can't remember name).

Here's the issues: all AQ20 spell power gear has crit on it. EVERY SINGLE PIECE. By having crit, warlocks and mages automatically assume it's just for them. Now I know that shadow priests prioritize spell crit the lowest, but there were massive SP increases on both pieces over my current. So I did what any caster would do and rolled on them. I won the staff which was cool, and then I won the pants as well. After this happened there was an uproar. Keep in mind, I am hit capped. 

Immediately I was attacked for having no BV pants (not needed, hit capped), and was told that I would not be getting the pants. When I began to object I was kicked from the raid and discord and FLAMED to the max by [insert mage and warlock here]. I was told I was greedy and that I'm terrible because I rolled on the pants.

 

So here's the thing. I discussed it with my guild and they agreed with me that just because a piece has crit DOES NOT mean I should be completely sidelined over other casting classes.

There seems to be this common attitude that because you're a shadow priest you just need to buff warlocks and shut up. Your damage is negligible and blah blah blah blah. I believe this argument is absolute bullshit.

My preraid best in slot for leg is Flarecore Leggings, not BV in the first place (assuming hit cap). Even if I had those, Black Blizz offers 16 int, 8 spirit, and 1% crit over them for 200-300g less (free basically). Granted crit isn't my main stat, but crit does help (shadow priests do actually use mindblast in raids). Don't even get me started on BV. Over bloodvine we're talking 4 SP, 10 INT, 14 STAM, 8 SPI, 1% crit. These stats are absolutely NOT negligible.

 

So my question is, am I the asshole because I won the roll? Should I just sit and shut up? Does 1% crit mean those legs are not for me at all? Let's put asside the whole "get fel infused leggings noob" argument. It's not going to happen. Those legs might as well be on Venus on my server.

And besides that, the raid wasn't +1. I realize it's two pieces of gear, but the other day our guild brought a green non guild mage to ZG and he won 4 epics off us. We didn't bitch or whine or complain. That's how it goes. 

Are we just secondary to every other caster? Mages are interchangeable.

Shadow priests are not.

Their argument, while solid, doesn't really matter given it is a pug.

You join a PuG to get your personal upgrades and gear that you seek. If it is an upgrade to your class in raids, then take it. You are there to care about your progression, not theirs, and as long as you are not rolling on downgrades or off-spec loot there is nothing that should be said to you.

Unless they specifically mention class priorities as part of the run before it starts, and apply the bis mentality to every single item that drops, they were in the wrong (because if that was the case, as a shadow priest you are low priorityt on everything, and probably wouldn't join them). Its their fault, not yours.

It this was a guild run, then yes, other classes should have a certain priority, given that as a guild you all progress together. But that is another story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/26/2017 at 4:54 PM, Prancinglid said:

In short, you are in a PUG and an item dropped for you that is 2nd BiS (next to a world boss drop). You have every right to roll on that item. 

Yes, it is a bigger upgrade for mages IF they have the gear to break BV. Warlocks shouldn't be big contenders on that item because their BiS gear set right now includes BV with full t2.5 being very close to that (in which case they use t2.5 legs). 

 

On another note, though, do you have neltharion's tear? If not, I don't see how you have sufficient pre-raid and not need to be using BV legs. 

I have Cloak of Consumption and Hakkar neck, along with ZG SP hit ring if needed. I'm also 3k away from Rockfury

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the hakkar neck is pretty bad. you can do the math on most items how much +dmg you're giving up for a % of hit. but in general i agree that you should be able to roll. i am planning to get them myself as well, simply because kazzak legs are not a reality. ppl will need to deal with priests rolling on those legs as they are currently bis assuming hitcap. HOWEVER i could not wear them at this point without cthun ring or gloves. BV legs are too good still with 2 hit and high spellpower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leggings of the Black Blizzard are indeed BiS for AQ (assuming no Kazzak), however Bloodvine are better if you can make use of the hit. Along with the Bloodvine Vest, these are the 2 last items you want to change out. The ZG hit neck is quite poor, not even better than Choker of Enlightenment from Lucifron, and Jeklik's Opaline Talisman is better than both. Don't obsess over hit capping. Hit is very strong for shadow, but it is not worth wearing on an item with no spell power. You would do more damage (on average) with Jeklik neck and 98% hit, than Soul Corruptor's neck and the resulting 99% hit (1% miss always present).

Hit items you want for BWL/ZG BiS: Neltharion's Tear, Bracers of Arcane Accuracy, Bloodvine chest and legs (6% total)

Hit items you want for AQ BiS: Neltharion's Tear, Ring of the Fallen God, Cloak of the Devoured, Rockfury Bracers, Tiara of the Oracle. (6% total)

I would personally pass on Black Blizzard in my guild raids until nobody that would immediately equip them was present. In a pug, however, you should always roll need, as they are absolutely BiS... eventually. The staff can be a good item if you haven't gotten a Nef mace, or your guild isn't clearing Twin Emps to get a quest staff. It is about 8% better than Anathema if you can use the hit, but about 10% worse if you can't. Chances are, if you are pugging 20 mans, you won't have access to a Nelth's tear, so it's a good pick up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Maxvla said:

Leggings of the Black Blizzard are indeed BiS for AQ (assuming no Kazzak), however Bloodvine are better if you can make use of the hit. Along with the Bloodvine Vest, these are the 2 last items you want to change out. The ZG hit neck is quite poor, not even better than Choker of Enlightenment from Lucifron, and Jeklik's Opaline Talisman is better than both. Don't obsess over hit capping. Hit is very strong for shadow, but it is not worth wearing on an item with no spell power. You would do more damage (on average) with Jeklik neck and 98% hit, than Soul Corruptor's neck and the resulting 99% hit (1% miss always present).

Hit items you want for BWL/ZG BiS: Neltharion's Tear, Bracers of Arcane Accuracy, Bloodvine chest and legs (6% total)

Hit items you want for AQ BiS: Neltharion's Tear, Ring of the Fallen God, Cloak of the Devoured, Rockfury Bracers, Tiara of the Oracle. (6% total)

 

Dark storm gauntlets would be BiS over Tiara in terms of hit gear. Bloodvine legs would also still be better of Tiara unless you have Kazz legs since Hexxers is more DPS. Tiara is nice for AQ; I use it over Hexxers for AQ40 for the stats. The extra health, mana, and mp5 is well worth the small DPS loss for lots of boss and trash fights where there is a possibility of taking lots of damage, but in terms of damage it is still not "BiS"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are right and I know they are better. I'm suppose I'm being too pessimistic about my chance to actually get them. I should work from a true bis, rather than my filtered version.

I just don't think I will ever get them because the boss they come from, the small upgrade they provide (drop 6 dmg to pick up a hit, worth around 16 dmg, net gain of 10) vs the crazy value they have for mages and locks, which have nothing close. Knowing how poorly shadow scales, it makes me hesitant to take an item like this when the upside for mage/lock is so much more. Compared to Tiara which is essentially rot on the first drop. Mishundare is better for lock, etc.

I also don't know how long we'll be killing c'thun before naxx opens. I'm on Darrowshire so we will probably be slightly accelerated from anathema. Even the c'thun cloak I'm doubtful on, but hopeful.

And yes, T2.5 is really good overall for encounters where your health matters. I intend to pick up helm and chest at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How long is your average fight length in AQ40? One of the reasons I'm high on the Tiara is the regen. I would guess average fight length is more towards the 180 sec range, or perhaps longer, compared to 120-150 in bwl.

Setting fight length to 180, you have to limit mindblast to make the distance, even with full consumables. In this situation Tiara is the best helm short of naxx (preceptor's), even not using the hit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Maxvla said:

How long is your average fight length in AQ40? One of the reasons I'm high on the Tiara is the regen. I would guess average fight length is more towards the 180 sec range, or perhaps longer, compared to 120-150 in bwl.

Setting fight length to 180, you have to limit mindblast to make the distance, even with full consumables. In this situation Tiara is the best helm short of naxx (preceptor's), even not using the hit.

 

http://www.realmplayers.com/RaidStats/RaidOverview.aspx?Raid=75378

 

Like I said, I use tiara in AQ40 on several fights and for trash because of the reasons I already stated. It is good and has its place, but in terms of max DPS it is not BiS - that was my only point and just wanted to elaborate on some information Max presented. It goes without saying that max DPS gear is max DPS if you can actually use your standard rotation (including Mind Blast on CD) during the entire fight without going OOM. Just trying to layout the facts so there isn't any misinformation in this thread for those seeking info.

And yes, Dark Gauntlets are what some would say are part of an "unrealistic" BiS list for spriests since they are a bigger upgrade for mages and locks, but they are BiS none the less. Cloak of the devoured isn't unrealistic because assuming your locks and mages have their ZG cloak, the additional spell damage and int isn't that big of an upgrade for them compared to a lot of the other gear that comes out of AQ40 (belt, emps neck, emp OH, visc MH, tier gear, etc.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just be a nice guy. Tell the locks who want the legs to fuck off and learn to play. However, pass on the staff for them. Also pass on the legs for mages because for them the legs are BIS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×