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jmul1212

Copying Bank toons and low levels.

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Is the system going to be completely automated and every active account is gonna get a active copy of everything?  Or do we have to initialize it?  Gold/Item regulations?  

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It's too early to think about this already, but according to them the characters will all be automatically copied. Maybe their policy on this will change, who knows.

About gold and items regulations, they have not said anything about it, but it would be pretty damn bad to set any cap on gold you can bring with you. Just imagine if Anathema actually ends up waiting for Elysium to catch up: you're literally telling to all the players "feel free to just farm the gear because farming gold will be a waste of time as we will remove almost all of it form your bags".

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On 9/6/2017 at 9:12 AM, Keala said:

It's too early to think about this already, but according to them the characters will all be automatically copied. Maybe their policy on this will change, who knows.

About gold and items regulations, they have not said anything about it, but it would be pretty damn bad to set any cap on gold you can bring with you. Just imagine if Anathema actually ends up waiting for Elysium to catch up: you're literally telling to all the players "feel free to just farm the gear because farming gold will be a waste of time as we will remove almost all of it form your bags".

It would be good if the Chinese National Bank gets stuck on vanilla. All im gonna say. 

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3 hours ago, jmul1212 said:

It would be good if the Chinese National Bank gets stuck on vanilla. All im gonna say. 

I agree with you on this, but I wonder what could be done in order to not screw over everyone else in the process.

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4 hours ago, Keala said:

I agree with you on this, but I wonder what could be done in order to not screw over everyone else in the process.

Haven't stopped them from making other weird decisions so shouldn't stop them this time either :)

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On 9/6/2017 at 6:12 PM, Keala said:

About gold and items regulations, they have not said anything about it, but it would be pretty damn bad to set any cap on gold you can bring with you. Just imagine if Anathema actually ends up waiting for Elysium to catch up: you're literally telling to all the players "feel free to just farm the gear because farming gold will be a waste of time as we will remove almost all of it form your bags".

Why would everyone farming megatons of gold be a good thing? Do you want to break the economy from day one? IMO if you want to keep the spirit of being "Blizzlike", taking away all the gold and non-soulbound items from all characters would get you closer to that goal than allowing three year old fat cats and gold buyers to get their epic mount the minute they hit 70. Add to that the huge kickstart to AH price inflation this would cause: "Selling motes of air 100g each, cheaper than AH PST".

Edited by Auranea

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13 minutes ago, Nelythia said:

No.

No caps.

Not blizzlike and it will piss A LOT of players of.

How Blizzlike is it in your opinion if half the population starts with five digit gold amounts and dozens of bank chars full of potions, crafting mats etc? also, what effect would that have on players who start fresh and realize how far behind they are economically?

As for pissing players off. How many do you think will quit over it? My careful guess would be 0.

Edited by Auranea

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Literally the same as on retail or it won't please the players.

There were players just as rich on retail vanilla that were farming thousands of golds and finished the game completly for the state it was in.
I remember a nihilum mage with over 250 days of /played at the end of vanilla, showing his bags with more than 60.000 gold and his consumeables.
There were alone 3 german players as well that reached the gold cap of 214,7k in TBC, that went with almost the whole amount later into WOTLK etc.

New players will always be behind, if they know how to play the AH or how to make ingame currency otherwise, they will catch up eventually.
Also you forget that normal flying + epic flying alone removes 5900 gold out of the game for each player that buys both. In addition to that you have new spells from trainers, again a lot of respecs, vendor prices, repair fees, quests that require you to provide gold, with sunwell isle a title for 1000g or even 10k in TBC I can't remember.

Gold will always be generated as soon as you kill a mob and loot his silver, or vendor/AH his drops.
Gold will always be spent as well, by the reasons above and certainly many more.
Gold will also not stay only on rich players, it will move around and spread across players as well eventually.

 

EDIT: It was a Method mage actually. Found the screenshot, and that is only one of such hardcore players like we have here too: u5f9a.jpg

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3 hours ago, Auranea said:

How Blizzlike is it in your opinion if half the population starts with five digit gold amounts and dozens of bank chars full of potions, crafting mats etc? also, what effect would that have on players who start fresh and realize how far behind they are economically?

As for pissing players off. How many do you think will quit over it? My careful guess would be 0.

You are already wrong, since it would be at least 100% 1, which is me.

Either way, I've seen plenty of times this argument, and to be honest it always comes from the players who can barely keep up with consumables. Ofcourse you would want everything to be removed, you have nothing to lose, so why would you care about the others, right?

Don't worry though, even in the case they decide to do something about this, there will always be around it (except if they just remove it). If they place a cap on each account, I'll just ask my friends to keep some of it and then trade it back to me after the copy/transfer. 

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10 hours ago, Nelythia said:

Literally the same as on retail or it won't please the players.

There were players just as rich on retail vanilla that were farming thousands of golds and finished the game completly for the state it was in.
I remember a nihilum mage with over 250 days of /played at the end of vanilla, showing his bags with more than 60.000 gold and his consumeables.
There were alone 3 german players as well that reached the gold cap of 214,7k in TBC, that went with almost the whole amount later into WOTLK etc.

New players will always be behind, if they know how to play the AH or how to make ingame currency otherwise, they will catch up eventually.
Also you forget that normal flying + epic flying alone removes 5900 gold out of the game for each player that buys both. In addition to that you have new spells from trainers, again a lot of respecs, vendor prices, repair fees, quests that require you to provide gold, with sunwell isle a title for 1000g or even 10k in TBC I can't remember.

Gold will always be generated as soon as you kill a mob and loot his silver, or vendor/AH his drops.
Gold will always be spent as well, by the reasons above and certainly many more.
Gold will also not stay only on rich players, it will move around and spread across players as well eventually.

 

EDIT: It was a Method mage actually. Found the screenshot, and that is only one of such hardcore players like we have here too: 

1. What will please the players, so I claim, is a functioning TBC server with a functioning economy. You will NEVER get the same experience as on retail, unless you can un-write all the guides, addons and boss strats and make players forget all the information as well. The best we can realistically hope for is an approximation of the situation at the original BC launch. Which brings us to:

2. No one denies that there were a few exceptionally rich players back in retail vanilla. But that is what they were, exceptions. The average player back then would have barely 100g to his name, many didn't know how to farm properly and Blizz clamped down on bots and gold sellers much more than Elysium does. I have no hard data to back this up but I did play very actively between vanilla and WotLK. After levelling on Elysium, my gut feeling is that players are, on average, at least 3x or more rich already than they ever were in retail vanilla. One data point I still remember is that on my retail server, mongoose elixirs never went above 1.5g and flasks of the titans barely peaked at 40g (which at the time I thought was an outrageous price). 

3. You demonstrated basic understanding of server economies by pointing out the various gold faucets and sinks. The fact is that on any server, the faucets generally outweigh the sinks, which causes inflation. This is aggravated on contemporary private servers because players are generally much better informed and better geared, not to mention the prevalence of farm bots and gold sellers (btw: hacking inactive accounts and selling the gold also contributes to inflation). Now here is the problem: most of the sinks you correctly named are large one-off investments like epic mounts. They are meant to negate the inflation *once* during the initial spike of activity. If a significant chunk of players are equipped to negate this initial hurdle, inflation kicks in full bore from day one.

4. If you're wondering why inflation is a bad thing in the first place, ask yourself this: once your money reserve runs out, would you rather farm one hour for your raid buffs or 10 hours? Would you rather pay 10g for an enchant or 100g? Would you rather be the first one by a month to get your epic mount or the first one by 30 minutes? Would you rather have 100 new players starting per month or 10? I'm exaggerating a little, but not by much. It's nice that there are hardcore players like the one in your screenshot, but they cannot carry a server by themselves. You need the steady influx of new players and the state of the economy is a significant factor in how many of them will be around farming the herbs for your potions and tanking heroics for your alts. (Also, just as an aside, if you really are hardcore and all that, starting with a less tilted playing field should be what you want, because that is the only way you can really show that you are better than the next guy.)

TL;DR: you have the choice between a new challenge on a lively server with a healthy economy or a "blizzlike" abortion where the already rich established players leverage their advantage to stay ahead of the dwindling population, and in the process buy themselves out of the actual blizzlike experience of earning your mount, your BoP profession items etc.

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9 hours ago, Keala said:

You are already wrong, since it would be at least 100% 1, which is me.

Either way, I've seen plenty of times this argument, and to be honest it always comes from the players who can barely keep up with consumables. Ofcourse you would want everything to be removed, you have nothing to lose, so why would you care about the others, right?

Don't worry though, even in the case they decide to do something about this, there will always be around it (except if they just remove it). If they place a cap on each account, I'll just ask my friends to keep some of it and then trade it back to me after the copy/transfer. 

You are projecting your selfishness on me i'm afraid. Just so you know how wrong you are about me, i'll have you know that even though I only started playing a few months ago, I already have my off-race epic mount, spent well over 1k on Quel'serrar and other BoE items and am nevertheless closing in on 1k gold (while also working full time and maintaining my social commitments). I know how to make money and I enjoy making money, so my argument is the very opposite of selfish. Well, that isn't quite true. I'm selfish in my desire for a really fresh start for everyone and a semi-level playing field, as well as a healthy, dynamic economy. Both factors are crucial for a stable population on the upcoming server. If you want the same things, you should see my point. If you are more concerned about leveraging your advantages to the detriment of the server's future, then I guess we agree to disagree.

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Making restrictions is completely pointless.

Set a gold cap: people with large amounts of gold will just create more accounts and divide their gold out over their accounts.

Set a level cap for characters that gets transfered in addition to gold cap, and people will just level up to whatever the cap is.

And this is for a thing that will have a very small effect on the echonomy unless you set the cap crazy small, which then will cause a massive uproar in the community.

Most players do not have massive amounts of gold, its a few very rich people that does. and those people will be very rich after a while anyway with a gold cap

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15 hours ago, Roxy said:

Making restrictions is completely pointless.

Set a gold cap: people with large amounts of gold will just create more accounts and divide their gold out over their accounts.

Set a level cap for characters that gets transfered in addition to gold cap, and people will just level up to whatever the cap is.

And this is for a thing that will have a very small effect on the echonomy unless you set the cap crazy small, which then will cause a massive uproar in the community.

Most players do not have massive amounts of gold, its a few very rich people that does. and those people will be very rich after a while anyway with a gold cap

What if you set the cap to 0 and ignore the "uproar" by the few lazy fat cats who are worried that they won't be able to rely on their privileged position to keep them ahead, and instead will have to re-establish their superiority through skill, game knowledge and dedication? not to mention the fact that you would also deal a huge blow to gold sellers and improve the overall experience for everyone who isn't too lazy to farm as much as the next guy?

Edited by Auranea

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On 2.10.2017 at 0:14 PM, Auranea said:

What if you set the cap to 0 and ignore the "uproar" by the few lazy fat cats who are worried that they won't be able to rely on their privileged position to keep them ahead, and instead will have to re-establish their superiority through skill, game knowledge and dedication? not to mention the fact that you would also deal a huge blow to gold sellers and improve the overall experience for everyone who isn't too lazy to farm as much as the next guy?

This post just reeks of jealousy.

Do you really think that if you set the cap to 0, its those with a lot of money that is going to rage? 

No, its the average player that is going to rage cause they worked for their gold as well.

 

And you are completely mistaken if you think its the few rich people that are causing the inflated echonomy.

The inflated echonomy is caused by the average player having more gold than what the game was originally designed for. Cause of  12 years of knowledge about farming methods.

 

A lot more gold is being created than what gets removed from the game, due to not enough gold sinks.

In fact, the people that has massive amounts of gold actually helps the echonomy. Cause most of the gold they carry is not being used, it just sits on a character rotting which is almost the same as gold being removed from the game.

Although some of these players uses their gold to manipulate the market which can hurt the echonomy.

The blow to gold sellers will be minimal at most, or actually it may even help the gold sellers due to the increased value per gold coin, and a higher demand for gold so more people will be tempted into buying.

 

And there is still many ways to work around a cap like this, having several accounts full of items with a high vendor price for instance

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So the purpose of this thread was directed at the possibility of Elysium/Anathema converging at same time and possibly having a cross over of realms.  It was also directed at a statement above about the first national bank of china.  This has nothing to do with rich and poor people.  Blizzlike is bringing over everything, i was wondering if  there was a way to reduce the gold selling at launch. 

 

I guess  this went in a bad direction.  Lock the thread or something. 

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12 hours ago, Roxy said:

This post just reeks of jealousy.

Do you really think that if you set the cap to 0, its those with a lot of money that is going to rage? 

No, its the average player that is going to rage cause they worked for their gold as well.

 

And you are completely mistaken if you think its the few rich people that are causing the inflated echonomy.

The inflated echonomy is caused by the average player having more gold than what the game was originally designed for. Cause of  12 years of knowledge about farming methods.

 

A lot more gold is being created than what gets removed from the game, due to not enough gold sinks.

In fact, the people that has massive amounts of gold actually helps the echonomy. Cause most of the gold they carry is not being used, it just sits on a character rotting which is almost the same as gold being removed from the game.

Although some of these players uses their gold to manipulate the market which can hurt the echonomy.

The blow to gold sellers will be minimal at most, or actually it may even help the gold sellers due to the increased value per gold coin, and a higher demand for gold so more people will be tempted into buying.

 

And there is still many ways to work around a cap like this, having several accounts full of items with a high vendor price for instance

You should read what I wrote above. I refuted almost all your arguments (including the accusation of being jealous or otherwise selfish) before you even made them. In response to the few unadressed points:

- People having massive amounts of gold does NOT help the economy. It is at best neutral, if and only if they don't use that gold to buy whatever it is they want and drive up market prices. And even then, if this "rotting" gold gets into gold sellers' hands through account hacks, it goes right back into the economy. Even worse, it gets into the real money economy.

- The blow to gold sellers will not be minimal. If you take away their assets, they will not have anything to sell, no matter the demand. Furthermore, it removes the incentive to hack accounts for gold, as people just won't have enough assets to be worth hacking. They will have to start over and farm everything they want to sell, which as you will agree is much harder than just selling what you already have.

- I already stated it, but it is worth emphasizing: if you do a gold purge, you should also purge non-soulbound items for obvious reasons. There is only so much value players can transfer into the expansion by stacking soulbound garbage, and compared to the disaster of not limiting resource influx at all, it is a perfectly valid compromise in my opinion.

I will level a char on Anathema just for the BC launch. Let's see if I get to 10k gold before Christmas, just in case the devs decide to break the BC server from day one.

Edited by Auranea

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No cap. No limitations.
It will hurt the whole PTE spirit as well.

If you can't make gold, then you are bad at the game or a casual player.
Why does anyone who can put time into it or knows how to make money ingame have to suffer by getting limited and capped just because some random casual player can't do it?
Especially since this isn't the kindergarten where you have everything "nice, fair and equal" so bobby isn't crying when tim has one more lego stone to play with.

Exactly the same like retail, taking everything with us, is the best solution and there isn't even a single second of "capping/limitating" thoughts required.

All people wishing such bullshit are players that do not care much about the game and the time they invest anyways, so why do you want to spit into our faces when we are the most playing and most loyal playerbase any privateserver has?
It's certainly not casual players keeping the servers alive. It's "hardcore" players.

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Just now, Nelythia said:

All people wishing such bullshit are players that do not care much about the game and the time they invest anyways, so why do you want to spit into our faces when we are the most playing and most loyal playerbase any privateserver has?
It's certainly not casual players keeping the servers alive. It's "hardcore" players.

My respect, just take it. It's yours.

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10 hours ago, Auranea said:

You should read what I wrote above. I refuted almost all your arguments (including the accusation of being jealous or otherwise selfish) before you even made them. In response to the few unadressed points:

- People having massive amounts of gold does NOT help the economy. It is at best neutral, if and only if they don't use that gold to buy whatever it is they want and drive up market prices. And even then, if this "rotting" gold gets into gold sellers' hands through account hacks, it goes right back into the economy. Even worse, it gets into the real money economy.

- The blow to gold sellers will not be minimal. If you take away their assets, they will not have anything to sell, no matter the demand. Furthermore, it removes the incentive to hack accounts for gold, as people just won't have enough assets to be worth hacking. They will have to start over and farm everything they want to sell, which as you will agree is much harder than just selling what you already have.

- I already stated it, but it is worth emphasizing: if you do a gold purge, you should also purge non-soulbound items for obvious reasons. There is only so much value players can transfer into the expansion by stacking soulbound garbage, and compared to the disaster of not limiting resource influx at all, it is a perfectly valid compromise in my opinion.

I will level a char on Anathema just for the BC launch. Let's see if I get to 10k gold before Christmas, just in case the devs decide to break the BC server from day one.

Okey i read the post above the one i quoted.

And you made some decent points there, but you completely missed the part where if things are expensive, you can sell your stuff expensive as well, so it doesnt take much longer to farm 1000 gold with inflation, than what it will take to farm 100 gold with no inflation.

It just means that the farming methods change, killing mobs for the gold that they drop / vendor items will decrease in value, and farming crafting materials will increase in value, WHICH IS A GOOD THING. cause less gold will be created by the server, and more gold will be traded inbetween players, and then used for repairs or other gold sinks, which eventually removes a lot of gold from the echonomy, and decreasing or at least slowing down the inflation. 

 

but one massive flaw, is that you seem to think that players with a lot of gold has some kind of advantage in the game, and that is simply not true.

Gold has it's function very early in the expansion, where you may want to purchase crafted items, but after the first 2 weeks everyone else has it, and you are the same as everyone else, no supiriority there. And who the hell care if a very few people don't get to experience "the struggle" that is farming for your flying mount?

Players with a lot of gold has done their struggle with collecting said gold, why should they do it a second time?

 

And your suggestion to make a 0 gold cap, and remove all sellable items is hilarious, why would people want to play on this server when they could just go to any other instant 60 TBC server and play? cause if you are going to remove anything that can be sold, there is nothing left but the gear you will replace whithin 2 weeks, and whats the point in a PTE experience if nothing you do in vanilla will carry over to the next expansion?

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Perhaps no gold cap is needed if Elysium and Anathema goes to different TBC servers, if not, then some kind of cap should be in place. Especially if Elysium's time line is speeded up, it is absolutely necessary because the economies of each server will be in totally different situation. And I also agree that limiting gold and resources creates a lot more blizzlike situation for the server launch. 

Cap is not hard to implement. You have the cap, and then ban everyone who receives gold for nothing; they are either buying it or circumventing the cap.

Also nothing you farm will be lost, as it will all be right there on your vanilla server.

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1 hour ago, sreaver said:

Perhaps no gold cap is needed if Elysium and Anathema goes to different TBC servers, if not, then some kind of cap should be in place. Especially if Elysium's time line is speeded up, it is absolutely necessary because the economies of each server will be in totally different situation. And I also agree that limiting gold and resources creates a lot more blizzlike situation for the server launch. 

Cap is not hard to implement. You have the cap, and then ban everyone who receives gold for nothing; they are either buying it or circumventing the cap.

Also nothing you farm will be lost, as it will all be right there on your vanilla server.

So we have to wait for elysium, but we cant farm gold in the meantime? What do you want us to do while elysium catches up then?

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On 10/13/2017 at 9:45 AM, Nabbie said:

So we have to wait for elysium, but we cant farm gold in the meantime? What do you want us to do while elysium catches up then?

Reroll on Elysium obviously! Join us.

One of us.

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1 minute ago, Sobreta said:

Reroll on Elysium obviously! Join us.

One of us.

No ty, i did bwl and mc like a hundred times already

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