meavis

Whats the point of a pvp server in tbc anyway if pvp is disincentivized by instanced pvp, feels like you really need to get out of the way just to be an asshole

jesus christ how horrifying

Though I'm not a very well spoken person, I have a considerable time investment ranking on darrowshire and would like to highlight some issues regarding PvP. for context and perspective, I speak as a rank 12 mage on darrowshire alliance that has a time investment greater than many rank 14 players, and a lower rank warrior also on darrowshire alliance. What's something that you enjoy about our current PvP scene? Currently on darrowshire not much, PvP suffers from many issues that make PvP simply not fun which added in my decision to quit ranking earlier. PvP can still be fun and what I find to be the most enjoyable is working together towards BG objectives, interaction between both your own players as well the oppossing players by accounting for them in your strategies. Something that you dislike? oh boy where do I start, I think I'll have to go with the time investment that happens when the system becomes extremely competitive for very few spots, on darrowshire with mostly 1 BG running at a time ranking has become a question of who can log more hours which is a very unhealthy system both design wise as for the players health themselves, this was probably the most heavy weight for me to quit ranking short of my goal. reaching a breaking point where it becomes wiser not to play because you'll lose more hours on illness is very very far from a fun experience. next up has got to be cheating, various chinese players over the course of darrowshires lifespan have account shared their way to standing 1 destroying any competition as they walk unpunished with the exception of 1, still these players did massive damage to an already fragile system. account sharing is hard to prove which makes it hard to enforce, sadly I don't see many opportunities here but advancements in data collection to provide evidence against account sharers. another big point is gameplay itself, which can be divided in two major divisions, Player based issues and Server based issues. amongst players theres a clear distinction between the rankers and those that pvp casually, often do these groups of players not get along because of the massive difference in goals. in a system where hours spent equals more rank progression anyone pushing ranks is mostly interested and concerned with exactly that, pushing in as many hours, this in turn means these players want to input minimal energy in games so they can go on longer per day and thus be more capable in competing for rank. combine this with the fact that horde is running an organized premade that is unstopable with alliance FFA chaos and you have the ranking playerssemi afk unable to do anything to turn the game around and the casual PvPers massively iritated by this behaviour, which lead to complaints against the ranking players which are pretty much powerless to do anything against the premade and in turn get iritated by the behaviour of casual PvPers. moving on to server based issues, theres various issues regarding the way the server handles information, and the functioning/bugs regarding some spells that make pvp an uninteractive and unfun experience. I've PvP'd on both a mage and a warrior on this server, and with both classes I run into the same issue, namely being unable to attack my opponents while they have no issues attacking me. on my mage I can have a melee right on top of me, cast frost nova and have absolutely nothing happen, or simply get killed from 20yd far away melee attacks. on my warrior I run into a somewhat similair issue, and that is I find myself unable to attack ranged targets, I can be moving right on top of them and auto attacks don't go off, and find myself often getting charged first in warrior mirrors. one could say this is an issue with lagg on my end, however I have a very capable connection that is consistantly under 30ms, and one of the fastest networks available in a first world country. the only place I can see where this issue spawns from is that the server takes in information on time, but sends it out to slowly, causing the slower connecting players sent information to overrule that of players with better connections. If this gues is correct, I find it very concerning that a system promotes poor connections as an advantage, one only has to look at lagg macro's to understand how silly this is. What's missing? enjoyability of PvP, improving information handling and solving spell related issues are massive steps towards improving this. I strongly believe that interaction makes for the most fun in this game, but currently interaction is difficult due to small player pools, strong differences in ideals and the functionality of the game itself. What would you like to see improved? from a casual perspective I'd like to see PvP more fun, and to me that means solving the above mentioned issues of interaction. from a ranking perspective, a drastic but much needed one in my opinion is changing the ranking system, there's various things in classic WoW that make it was it is, but I can't really say this for the PvP system, the only thing that really stands out about this system is that you can brag that you wasted insanely many hours and deteriorated your own body, which doesn't sound exactly all that great to be the major selling point, and it is very clear exactly why blizzard got rid of this system with no clear upsides to keeping it around. ofcourse diagnosing problems is much easier than solving them, and while I can't think of a perfect solution, I would still like to contribute with some possibilities. 1. reshape the ranking system to be HK based instead of RP based. pros: ranking players will actively play amongst casual players to obtain the HK's they need for rank progression, whilst casual players again can enjoy having ranking players play besides them rather than making it feel as if they were against them. cons: battleground objectives take a backseat and are only important to those who want to push battleground reputation rewards. neutral: with no decay possible in honor kills this system has a defined ending point and is not so much about consecutive play but rather total play, if this is better or worse is debatable. comment: having played on a server that has used a similair system before I can say that I am familiar with the consequences of such a system, and find them to be an improvement over the current ranking system. as for number, I'm not sure about other servers but as for darrowshire the current results of the playerbase according to realmplayers follows a formula that is very close to 1honor kill per 1.71rank points or 1rank point per 0.58honor kills such a system would make ranking no harder or easier but extremely consistent in effort to reward ratio. 2. change decay in the current system. anyone that has played darrowshires top standings for the top ranks knows how much of an influence decay is, with the fierce competition having saturated ranks per standing and locked progression down almost entirely to require a high standing to make any progression at all, decay has formed a serious hurdle in the rank progression of many, where all they can do is play insane hours week on week making no progress at all to simply wait for the player spending more hours than them to finish, this becomes even more of a problem when lower rank players dump more hours to grind progression to a complete standstill over entire brackets. the issues in this system lie in defining the numbers for it. pros: ranking becomes more consistent and higher ranks more available cons: higher ranks might become to easily obtainable if numbers are not carefully determined. neutral: with more RP flowing into than out of the system overal ranking becomes easier universally amongst ranks, if this is considered desireable is up for debate. comment: a system like this could be somewhat difficult to implement correctly, and with no experience in such a system I am uncertain if it can accomplish desireable traits of a ranking system that is fair, fun and still prestigeous. 3. change bracket cutoff points in the current system this is a more simplistic change with easy to oversee consequences, changing bracket numbers solves issues like what happend on darrowshire with a complete standstill for high ranks. pros: widen the chokepoint that high standings form for high ranks making high ranks move available. cons: ranking could become to easy with much more RP flowing into the system than was intended. players that have gone through the old system are unaccounted for in fairness of the system. neutral: with much more RP flowing into the system overal ranking becomes easier universally amongst ranks, if this is considered desireable is up for debate. comment: while solving current issues, this system points to long term changes that could be undesirable. while current population can flow on through the system, as players flow through the system high standings could become abundant, as well as overal RP inflow of the system making for a much easier ranking experience in general, this could remove any prestige for old and new players from their ranks, on top of being very biased in favor of newer players and thus unfair to older players. the long term effects of this system is why I personally don't see it work to well and why I listed it last amongst my suggestions. Any other thoughts / comments / suggestions? for those that see these changes as unblizzlike, look at the current state of PvP and consider for yourself wether that is blizzlike or not firstly. as for casualization, I am not in favor of this, however I am in favor of keeping the input/output of effort to rewards to be closer to blizzlike.

you found the answer yourself, anyone can do these jumps and they're available to everyone, with the exception of a few which are restricted to certain race/gender combinations (ledge on horde base).

it doesn't exist on retail because the terrain in WSG got altered to patch these and many more jumps out, all of these existed in retail classic and some of these existed through TBC. see below video for the most basic ones also I'm getting a feeling this thread is not even about these jumps any more but rather being salty about world bosses.

The rules for these kind of things are if every class/race can do them through basic jumping/movement they are legal, that includes this jump, tunnel jumps, fence jumps, climbing tree stumps etc.

@darrellia for many classes the pvp trinket does not protect you from mind control, the mind control helmet which is the most popular method is instant cast, so theres no interupting it either.

@Noiryx Cherrypicking aside, there's more to consider than just that, firstly that MCing horde out was already reactionary, secondly that all MCing was done in AB, a battleground where both have equal opportunity to MC out the other faction, and thirdly, it wasn't done to accurately target and sink the standing of specific players.

@darrellia well that is pretty much the case since the alliance graveyard is withing mind control range of the portal, all they have to do is kill you once and you're out of BG, the only precaution you can take is to not take resses at all, but this is not an option every game.

on darrowshire there has been systematic abuse of mind controlling certain players out of battlegrounds for a while now. the standard policy currently in play for this rules these legal as "clever use of game mechanics", which could still be considered a fair policy. problems originating here however, that this is a very one sided policy as in the current warsong gulch map, the horde portal is unwalkable terrain, making it impossible for alliance to send horde through the portal using the most common method of mind control helmet, with next to no priests playing on alliance side alternative methods aren't even available. as a result alliance is powerless as horde keeps abusing this method to fuck over alliance rankers. suggestions would either making the alliance portal unwalkable as is the case for the horde portal, severely cutting down on the ongoing abuse by horde and evening the odds, or to completely outlaw mind controlling people out of battlegrounds, as events have gone out of control and are taking form of targeted harrasment.

Hey, this is Stasis Just here to clear up anything, and more particularly the context you're shoving onto us which is entirely disconnected from your statements. The tag in the list is entirely to highlight who has exceeded their set cap after they had agreed to stay under it, this means nothing more than that these players are liars and not to be trusted. By no means does this mean they're a target for hacking or anything stupid like that, only that these people have clearly chosen not to cooperate in the bracket system we were trying to set up. regarding the 2nd image, the message I put out here is that anyone who was capped is no longer obligated under their cap to compete vs you as you have broken the caps already, if you do not wish to play by our rules, we won't anymore either. as for the 4th image, this is booker criticizing the evidence, where I provide an example of the situation that the evidence is undeniable, bookers last statement is just a sarcastic response. nobody in this group actively tried to harm you resorting to measurements outside of them game to my knowledge. I hope this clears up some confussion. - Stasis