Theloras

yea you want as slow as possible so 2handers like Arcanite Reaper are good as well as The Unstoppable Force from AV as well

It's possible with dedication and a thick skin - you need to be up to the challenge of farming mats/gold for consumables and come prepared to every raid. Keep track of one of the top raiding Ret Paladins playing - Smiter - he took my playstyle/rotation and perfected it both here and on Vanilla Gaming where he and I played the past few months: http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer.aspx?realm=NRB&player=Smiter http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/PlayerOverview.aspx?realm=NRB&player=Smiter http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer.aspx?realm=VG&player=Smiterr http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/PlayerOverview.aspx?realm=VG&player=Smiterr

oh yes please and thank you!

What Duki said above ^^^ original downranking was penalized during Vanilla not the prepatch for TBC The only one that doesn't fall into that category iirc is Blessing of Light - it will still grant the full +Healing to either Flash of Light or Holy Light regardless of rank used: Patch 2.3.0 (2007-11-13): [blessing of Light]: Lower ranks of Flash of Light and [Holy Light] are now properly penalized when used with this Blessing.

"Killerduki claimed that warriors rage should decay in combat." - stop lying because he never said that - he made a mistake and thought you were OOC but were in fact still in combat due to entering the next boss phase and he even admitted that he was wrong in his next post. As for me personally, I wanted this to be flushed out myself because I can tell you with 100% assurance that given current conditions on Nost/Elysium, using Flask of Distilled Wisdom is much better than Flask of Supreme Power for Ret DPS as it allows spamming of max rank Consecration throughout the length of any boss fight. As I said earlier in this thread, Smiter would pop a Distilled Wisdom every raid both here and on Vanilla Gaming and would top meters so I was curious to see with this Priest example if going for the T2 3set bonus (an extra +15% mana regen during combat) instead of +spell dmg items and focusing on INT would provide more damage over the long run. Unless you test things out, no one knows for sure - experiment and try new things.

Yes I believe so as well - but it may or may not be broken. Anyway- I would HIGHLY recommend engineering as a Paladin since we do not have any ranged attacks in Vanilla and Iron Grenades are awesome in both PvE and PvP

It's a mystery wrapped inside the enigma that is his brain (or lack thereof). I wish I was making this stuff up cuz you can't come up with $hit like this!

so what was the final consensus from the spread sheet testing?

No the funny thing is that he didn't even know what Seal Twisting actually is... He simply didn't want to have to click Seal of Wisdom, Judge it, then Cast Seal of the Crusader because, "I don't have room on my action bar for another ability." yes, they made him class leader but asked him to read my Retribution guide in order to know how to play the class/spec

1. He refused to respec out of Vindication when I informed him that it was taking up a debuff slot needlessly 2. He refused to Judge Wisdom and insisted on Judging Crusader (even though I had the PvP gloves with +20 to JotC and he didn't) - because, "I don't have enough mana to Seal Twist..." 3. Was a complete dick about #1 and #2 when I asked him politely (as seen in the screenshots) 4. I ended up getting kicked from the guild cuz he was IRL friends with the GM and apparently I was causing drama 5. Another Ret friend was recruited after I left and he ended up quitting himself cuz this guy was such a retard lol!

This guy here used Vindication in MC and BWL...and bitched me out cause I had the nerve to inform him that it was a useless talent to use in PvE. http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer.aspx?realm=NRB&player=Shytti http://imgur.com/a/Ndiri His name is quite fitting TBH - he's one of the worst Ret Paladins on the server - avoid him like the plague everyone!

you'd be surprised tbh quite a few paladins on nost had the talent while PvEing and I've had to explain to them that it was actually detrimental to the raid since it's a high priority debuff and can't be removed until it falls off on its own

He's offering as alternative opinion to the preconceived min/max spec/playstyle - nothing more nothing less - you are free to disagree with him as are you with me but he is entitled to his opinions as am I. That's the beauty of Vanilla WoW - people are free to try out different things and go against the grain. People aren't spoon fed their talents/abilities like they are on current retail. You are free to experiment and see where you can push the envelope. I for one enjoy the challenge and why I spec Ret in PvE or Reck for PvP - different strokes for different folks.

No I know - I'm just saying that it was bugged previously and I never took it as a result - the same reasoning applies if you go deep Ret for both PvE and PvP - I wouldn't recommend taking Vindication if it is still bugged because your guild leader will yell at you for using up a debuff slot needlessly.

It's a toss up but I do remember Vindication being bugged and taking up a debuff slot against raid bosses so not advisable - unless it's been fixed. AKA it has no effect against mobs/bosses since they do not have stats but dmg ranges so if it's on a raid boss it's needlessly taking up a debuff slot. The trick when Reck spec is to not use your bombs against Rogues but against the casters with them - let the Rogues feed you reck charges then 1shot their healer

If I may offer my 2 cents - there is nothing in this world more satisfying than 1shot Reck Bombing Horde. Something along these lines - 0/25/26 - http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sZVGt0s0xZVfotrck Deep Ret has its merits but once you go Reck for PvP you never go back

In the end Killerduki was proven to be correct as Darkrasp admitted himself: I have to admit publicly that I was wrong about Holy Resistance. I could have just ignored the issue or insisted I was right, but I feel a moral imperative to admit when I'm wrong and apologize. I was a jerk about it and now I'm eating crow. I was kind of right, the client data for Holy Resist indicates in every way that items with +All Resist should affect it. In most cases where Blizzard made a big sweeping change, they made those changes in their database, the proper way. Turns out that for Holy Resistance they did a jerk move and created a server-side hackfix that just zeroed out any Holy Resist gains from gear or auras before finishing their resistance calculation. Level differential still applies to Holy spells as normal, but gains from the MOD_RESISTANCE aura are all nullified inside the resist calculations. Nothing in the client data indicates this, and that's why I was so adamant that it was correct. http://forums.crestfall-gaming.com/index.php?/topic/1221-darkrasps-update-11282016/ As far as his "Killerduki - Holy Resistance" meme picture, I am the one who suggested that he use it as his avatar in a similar fashion as Prince and Dave Chapelle: "That's Checkmate right there!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCMthBc3zew

lolwut? Yea, thanks again for proving that Distilled > Power

Actually Smiter used Flask of Distilled Wisdom instead of Flask of Supreme Power in order to spam max rank Consecration for the entirety of each boss fight and top dmg metres both here and on Vanilla Gaming: http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/PlayerOverview.aspx?realm=NRB&player=Smiter http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/PlayerOverview.aspx?realm=VG&player=Smiterr So thank you for proving Duki's point!

lolret

pretty much this - unless every druids innervates you lol shadow priests aren't brought for their own DPS - they are brought to keep up shadow weaving to fuel the Warlocks' DPS

yes maraudon works fine as well

I would just solo farm Scarlet Monastery instead - much easier/faster to do.

+1 for good peeps looking forward to raiding with you guys again soon!

This is an example of two people agreeing to disagree and still remaining respectful of one another.