Roflcakes

Make sure your auto attack ability is placed in the correct slot, use the image provided below and edit the macro to change the number 24 to the number of the slot that your auto attack is set to. /run if not IsCurrentAction(24) then UseAction(24) end; Image of all ability slots: http://i.imgur.com/BcuQKTO.png

Shield bash not shield slam, it isnt a prot talent, its the interrupt. Shield bash, 10 rage Interrupts casting from target for 6 seconds. also generates a decent amount of threat.

The rage generation will have taken a sizable hit for sure. When 60 talents such as improved sunder armor will help a lot, because reducing the cost of sunder from 15 to 12 rage is quite sizable when feeling rage starved. What spec were you? If your tanking as arms, in the first 10 talents, there is nothing that will buff your rage from damage done, such as cruelty for crit or unbridled wrath (even if its not a particularly strong talent); this could add to the rage starved feeling. As a bandage for the situation, try using shield bash when you can instead of sunder, it causes decent threat (max rank causes 180 / max rank sunder causes 260 base threat) it costs 10 rage compared to 15 thou; usable through disarm to, so it eases the rage situation a little. With regards to battle shout not working, was there anyone in range of battle shout? its unlikely but it could be possible they were standing back and battle shout didn't hit them when tanking? It could also be possible that if battle shout is on the target additional re-applications are not causing threat, which is not correct and should be reported. Hope this helps

I would be happy to test this for myself, but as my warrior on nost no longer exists, I have to wait till the new server is available prior to doing extensive testing for both the caps. The reason I asked for data and/or sources is due it being contentious topic; It seems like multiple people have been quoting numbers, without referencing any testing of sorts. While I understand that people are able to test it themselves to be sure, It would be nice to have some data evidenced, when proposing an axiom. It maybe common knowledge, to some people but; based on a few threads on the forums. It seems to less well known than previously perceived. Thus it's in people's best interest if we had a universal value, with some logs provided for evidence. Honestly I would do this myself but again, I would require Elysium PvP to be available before I can provide a definitive test.

Hmm, are you sure about that 5% hit cap? If i remember correctly, isnt 5% base miss for mobs the same level as you are? when taking on a 63 boss, you will have to factor in the extra defence that they have just by being higher level, even for yellow abilities. I would love to test this out, but won't be able to until the new server comes up. EDIT: This is from the hit thread, page 2: the topic of what is correct for hit cap is very highly debated amongst warriors. So if you state that the hit cap is 5% for yellow, do you have a cite for your reference or some spreadsheets with testing detailing that at 5% no ability attacks were missed on 63 mobs.

Same formula: Attack_speed = "current attack speed" / (("Percent increase or decrease" / 100) + 1 ) 1.98019 = 2.0 / ((1/100)+1) I rounded up to 1.98 What i wanted to show with that was not the attack speed calculation but the nature of how the extra attack works; and how the difference in speed adds up to the possibility of the extra attack. At 3 mins 20 sec someone with a 2.0 wep without haste will get 100 hits off, someone with 2.0 wep and 1% haste will manage 101 attacks guaranteed. Its possible to get that extra attack from haste earlier, but the shorter the fight the lower the chance of it happening. It is more of what is the chance of you getting a extra attack compared to someone without 1% haste enchant. Sorry if the explanation is a bit rough.

Hmm, yes i failed to mention that haste is more effective in target dummy fights, as opposed to fights where you have to swap targets. Regarding the additional swing itself, its very hard to say when you exactly benefit for that that swing; as it is more of a probabilistic chance to benefit from it that increases with time. So if you are very lucky every time you swap you may get an extra swing or if you are unlucky then you never get a extra swing until you hit critical point. Here is a simple example of what i mean when i say the chance to benefit is more of a probability that increases compared to an absolute. Please note that this is a crude illustration, if I do a proper write up I will clarify it further. This is for a 2.00 sec attack speed. Swing Wep 1 (swing time) Wep 1 with haste (swing time) negative void (accumulative difference in time) 1 2.00 1.98 0.02 2 4.00 3.96 0.04 3 6.00 5.94 0.06 4 8.00 7.92 0.08 5 10.00 9.90 0.10 Notice how the gap between the 2 timers increase. The negative void is the gap in time if the boss is killed during that time; you benefit from a extra swing. Now look at the final 5 (6) swings: Swing Wep 1 (swing time) Wep 1 with haste (swing time) negative void (accumulative difference in time) 96 192.00 190.08 1.92 97 194.00 192.06 1.94 98 196.00 194.04 1.96 99 198.00 196.02 1.98 100 200.00 198.00 2.00 (critical point) 101 X 200.00 0.00 Here you can see that at exactly 100 hits you get an extra swing with 100% probability. What this means is that you can always have a chance to get that extra swing if you swap target or if the main target dies, but it is only guaranteed at 100th swing. The probability is uniformly distributed with the mean at 50 swings. Meaning at 50 swings, you will have a 50% chance of an extra attack. Let me know if this explanation is confusing in anyway.

Technically the way haste works is that based on duration of your attack period, it can build up towards an extra swing. The numbers you have referenced are very optimal to prove your value of haste, as it allows the person with 1% attack speed to get that second hit in. Although if we were to tweak the number slightly, to 2 seconds for the mobs to die; both players are able to hit the mob twice. In this case the one with more +str instead of the 1% haste will do more damage. The way you would work out haste vs str with averages over a large number of swings. 1% increase in attack speed on a 2.00 wep means it has a attack speed of 1.98 sec. This means that every 200 seconds that you are engaged, you will perform 1 extra swing (101 hits) if you have 1.98 speed as opposed to someone with 2.00 speed (100 hits). To keep this example simple let's not consider the probability of glancing/miss/dodge/parry/crit/etc and assume that you have a perfect 100% chance to hit. So if Y (100 hits) is the damage you cause and X (extra hit) is the extra damage you gained from that 1 weapon swing; your total damage for the duration is Y+X. If you had extra str in the place of the 1% haste, you will manage 100 hits over that same period, but will be doing a small amount of damage more each hit. So what is happening is that your final damage may also be Y+X but it is different in how the X damage is delivered (each hit is doing X/100 extra damage). Now what this means in terms of scaling for the glove enchant. The 8 str to gloves is static and will increase your damage by a set amount; this means that X/100 value that is added to each hit will be static extra dmg regardless of any upgrades. Where as the 1% haste will increase in value as you get better gear and weapons. This is because that extra attack that is performed by the player will increase in damage as gear increases. Thus at some uncalculated point will overtake the value of the damage provided by that +8 str. The longer the fight goes on, your probability of having an extra swing during the fight increases; till you hit a critical point where you are guaranteed to have had an extra swing during the fight. Once you reach the critical point, the probability goes to 0 and then increases again over the same time interval. There is also risk mitigation factor built into str compared to haste, as your extra str contributes to doing extra damage every hit, so you are getting accretion in your damage contributions from that extra Str. Where as with haste your playing with risk on that 1 swing, if it is dodged/parried/miss then you do the same damage during the period as someone without a enchant. This is a very simple breakdown of it for explanation purposes. Factors such as fight duration/Dodge/Parry/Miss/Crit all play a significant part in these calculations. I may do a proper breakdown if there is interest for it. TLDR: 1% haste, depending on wep speed, fight duration, gear, rng has a chance of providing more damage than +8 str.

I feel I should mention /script KLHTM_Sunder() If you are using any Macro in order to cast sunder, such as a change stance and sunder macro from Berserker stance. You will need to use the following script instead of /cast Sunder Armor. This is because KTM does not recognise Sunder uses in Macros. As brief explanation is given below. Credit for explanation goes to Alliedroc.

Agree with Undertanker, having around 3% hit is a good benchmark for pre-raid. It is important that you are able to connect with your abilities as optimal DPSer that are really pushing their boundaries will be right behind you on threat. Your weakest slots in terms of defence gains per slots used will be your Ranged/Rings/1 trinket (Given that Force of Will is preBiS and your other trinket). This make Satyr's Bow (1.3), Don Julio's band (1.6) and even Guard of the Rune Captain (added 1.5) particularly good combo for getting you the 3% hit pre raid. Having these items means you don't sacrifice other pieces which you can gain defence/avoidance from.