JaqTheMo

Pretty much this! Paladin is a great Tank-Healer by simply spamming flash lights on him without going oom while weaving in some holy lights during damage spikes.

It really depends on what situation you are looking. In theory ele has the best scaling due to great spellpower scaling. Yet they suffer from lacking penetration curse and manaissues in longer fights. Feral can be really strong, even outperforming dps classes with heavy usage of powershifting and due to the fact (maybe bug) that you instantly AA with your 2h after shifting into caster form. Enhancement has crazy burst potential (Windfury + Slow 2h) but lacks sustain. Ret has also great burst potential (Seal of Crusader) but lacks sustain. Both Enh and Ret rely mostly on AA. (Read: boring)

After realmstats went donw I havn't seen a place where I can see recent Census Data. Is there a new page ? Or does anyone have recent data ? Id really appreciate.

Hey, Does anyone have a recent Census ? Or knows where to find one ? After Realmstats went down I couldnt find a new one.

Thanks a lot =)

Hey, Id like to suggest to increase the PlayerCap of NostPvE from 5000 to 6000 players. If it is too much for the server you can still tune it down. It is perfectly fine with 5k players online, but there are allready close to 2k people in the queue. /discuss

Yeah, I've checked the RealmStatus. You are right. Still long queue. And 6k was running very smooth.

Wait ? You just said exactly what I was saying !!! You say 315Def + 100% Avoidance = 100% Avoiding Crushing blows. But this could also be translated into: 300Def + Any 2,4% of Avoidance (Because 15 DefRating add 2,4% Avoidance) + 100 Avoidance = 300 Def + 102,4% Avoidance = 100% Avoiding Crushing Blows ...... And there is no thing like diminishing returns in vanilla. ....... In the bottom of my screenshot you can see that i searched the whole document for "xxx" and it didnt get any results ?! Also this is the only list of numbers in that whole thing you linked.

So this is what I see in that discussion. And if I search the document for "xxx" it gets no results ?!

It is 102,4%. If you believe that 440 is the cap to be crit immune than you must also believe in the 102,4%. 440 comes from : 125 def for the 5% crit chance the boss has + 15 def for the 0,60% crit he gets from his lvl advantage (1 Point of Attackrating gives 0.04% Crit, 0.04% hit and -0.04% that oponent dodges/parrys/block ).

Okay , so I read that conversatio now. In the conversation is a statement that Beaza has done many changes and that some were legit ans some were not. I looks like you just copied the lines that would help your argument. This is the whole statement of the original poster to this topic: Beaza changed values I personally verified with awkward values, and directly contradicted various blue statements from forums over the past two years (among others), including things that can be observed like : each point of Defense increases Block, Parry, Dodge, and Miss chance against you by 0.04% (Beaza says 0.01%), or that WoW combat is table-based (Beaza says it's an if-then-else system). Beaza, who has no contribution before today (no Wowwiki history) has modified today (or is MODIFYING right now) every combat-related article to show his/her view. I consider this vandalism, as he/she does not back ANY CHANGE in the Discussions but merely inputs data which may be, as far as I know, arbitrary and/or incorrect. At the very least, I expect explanation for these changes. --Dorenthas 14:28, 30 November 2006 (EST) Well, I checked Beaza's other modifications and they didn't seemed as random as I first thought (except one entry, which states that the Combat system is a series of "if then else", which it probably isn't - but that may have been said just so it's clear which event takes precedence over what). However, the values changed in the formulas of THIS article STILL seem completely random, and the statement about Defense (regarding its effect in increments of 0.01%) is applicable to mobs' Defense skill, not players' Defense skill. This was unclear in the modifications to this article, but it was stated more obviously in another modification from Beaza. I apologize for the quick accusations of vandalism, Beaza. --Dorenthas 14:40, 30 November 2006 (EST) This states that Beaza's posts regarding Dodge were completly random . Also this was his conclusion: P.S. Here are the 1.12 numbers for base dodge: Rogue 0.0% Druid 0.9% Hunter 0.0% Mage 3.2% Paladin 0.7% Priest 3.0% Shaman 1.7% Warlock 2.0% Warrior 0.0% Now dodge per AGI: Rogue 0.000689655 i.e. 14.5 AGI per 1% Druid 0.0005 i.e. 20 AGI per 1% Hunter 0.000377358 i.e. 26.5 AGI per 1% Mage 0.000514286 i.e. 19.44444444 AGI per 1% Paladin 0.000505882 i.e. 19.76744186 AGI per 1% Priest 0.0005 i.e. 20 AGI per 1% Shaman 0.000507692 i.e. 19.6969697 AGI per 1% Warlock 0.0005 i.e. 20 AGI per 1% Warrior 0.0005 i.e. 20 AGI per 1% There is no such thing where he excluded subnumbers. Again it looks like your making things up to fit your argument.

102,4% according to defense/attack-rating difference between the Tank and the Boss. For each level LvL-Difference the boss will get 5 points attackrating. 1 point of attack rating reduced the chance that the Boss gets parries,dodged, blocked or misses by 0.04%. Just like our defrating works, but the otherwayround. If we now multiply 15*0,16% we get 2,4%. This is the AvoidanceReduction a tank recieves when he fights a Mob 3 lvl higher. It doesnt really matter that if never faides as you still are crushable even with Holy Shield up. And like I said most of the times a warrior can easily keep his Shield Block up vs a SingleTarget Boss.

Yeah i saw most of that. But if you look into the "updated Version" which included Beazas Info Warrios still have 20Agi:1 Dodge ?! http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Dodge?oldid=349808

No i corrected that. I just typed to fast A Block will make you lose a stack, of course.

102,4% is needed. 100% + 15*0,16% (This is the 3 lvl difference between the boss and the tank) 102,4% - 91% = 11,4% Also 91% is with really great gear. Most parts of vanilla this items wont be available. Resulting in most parts of vanilla paladin tanks will eat 15% crushing blows. That difference is quite small. Lets say you get 200 Agi buffed as a tank in vanilla wow. I checked the BiS-List you created for prot, the items give +66 Agi. Paladins dont have a high base-agility value so I think 200 is an okay gues. 200/23,57 = 8,46% (warrior) 200/19,55 = 10,23% (warrior) Warriors get 5% parry from talents while the Protspecc you posted has only 4%. That almost evens it out again. Offtopic: The source you qouted for that bugreport was a 1-Day Entry in WoW-Wiki. The original Author of the Dodge-Entries corrected that entry after 1-day turning all numbers back to 20 except for rogues and hunters. I'll link you the entry which has the numbers that wow-wiki stated for most of vanilla. http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Dodge?oldid=349028 You are crush-immune until the next 2 attacks are blocked. Shield-Block has a 5 second CD. So most bosses will be able to swing 2 or 3 attacks in 1 ShieldBlock duration. But whenever a hit is dodged, parried or missed no ShieldBlockCharge is lost. The chance that a warrior drops his ShielBlock before he can recast it is really low and is getting decreased the better his gear gets. You need more armor, but 75% DamageReduction is still the Cap. The vanilla formular is: %Reduction = (Armor / (Armor + 400 + 85 * Enemy_Level)) * 100 vs LvL 60 = 16500 Armor are 75% vs LvL 63 = 17265 Armor are 75% The value displayed in your characterinfo is allways vs your own LvL. So at LvL 60 it shows reduction vs LvL 60 mobs. Yes, Holy shield lasts for 4 blocks but also has double the CD of ShieldBlock. So it evens out. To be armorcapped vs bosses your charactersheet has to show 75,84% vs lvl 60 mobs.

Warlock is a lot more versatile and fun. My personal opinion of course.

Also 91% Avoidance would still result in 11,4% chance to get crushed from a boss while a warrior can negate that chance completely.

If a paladin can get 61% Avoidance(+30% Holy Shield) than a warrior can do so as well. I believe both paladins and warriors need exactly 20 agility for 1% dodge. So there is no advantage to anyone's favor. The 10% damage reduction also applys to magic dmg which can't be reduced by armour. Also 2,5% of a physical bosshit would still be 100-200 dmg. Also saying that warrior tank can easily achieve armour cap is debatable assumption.

Hey, often just a few points into one of the trees will be enough for going into a dungein with that role. Your Choice of gear is a lot more important.

Hey, Regarding Crushing Blows: The chance to recieve a crushing blow is not influenced by "good" or "bad" gear. In order to achieve a reduction on crushing blow probability a Tank would need more than 87,4% mitigation (Dodge, Parry, Block, Miss) without any abilities. This scenario is impossible even with the best items in vanilla. The only chance to reduce crushing blow probability is by activating "Shield Block" or "Holy Shield". Yet a Paladin needs a lot more Mitigation to push Crushings of the table as Holy Shield gives only +30% block compared to Shield Blocks +75%. I think its even impossible for paladins to push them of completly (unless Redoubt of Course, but a Tank shouldnt be critted). Regarding "Keep in mind we do have lot Parry/Dodge unlike Warriors" : Why ? Warriors and Paladins both get the exact same Parry/Dodge from Talents (5% Parry and +10DefRating). Also warriors benefit exactly the same from all defensive stats like paladins. They can also wear exactly the same Items (Warrior even has an advantage since WarriorsTierSets are designed for tanking (High defrating + Avoidance%) while Paladins aren't). So where do Paladins get this advantage from you are talking of ? Regarding "where Warrior's Block will make them throw out of table Dodge/Parry/Miss %" No. Dodge, Parry and Miss are put into the combat table before block. This means that even with 500% block warrios would still dodge, parry and get missed attacks. Regarding "In overall fight this will result with Paladin eat lower damage than the Warriors": Well like I said Warriors and Paladin wear the same gear, have the same talents. But warriors get 10% DmgReduction vs ALL (including Magic) DmgSources. So why would Paladin tank take less overall damage ?