Coop

That's why I think the system of MS > OS > Greed/DE is a much simpler way of doing things. It is your logic that throws up all of these variables because you're equating gold with actual pieces of gear. 'Everyone agrees that if someone needs an item more than the rest group members, then he should get it.' - That was your statement. If that is what you truly believe then a blanket rule of everyone rolling need on BoE's is not consistent with that. I'm saying if you roll on a BoE under the premise that you're just there with strangers, I wasn't saying you personally are greedy. Although given your position in these threads, I'm assuming you would roll need on a BoE you couldn't use right?

But thats the thing, just because a BoE can be traded for gold doesn't mean that everyone requires it equally. If I'm a BiS rogue doing a dungeon run with a freshly dinged warrior and Stockade Pauldrons drop, who needs that item more? They can sell the item for the same amount, but the rogue will simply use this to add to his stockpile of gold or for something that doesn't directly increase the power of his character, whereas the warrior can equip the item and vastly increase his stats and his opportunity to get into a raiding guild or whatever. How can you argue that these two would both need the item just as much as each other? The only basis your argument stands on is 'why should I pass on this extra chunk of gold for a stranger' which I don't agree with but can understand, but then just admit that you are doing it because you're essentially being greedy and you're not bothered about the needs of other people in your pug. Your last point is a non-argument, unless you're using ML you're relying on the trust of people when a BoP drops as well.

What if that Rogue already has all of the BoE's he needs, does he become a ninja if he still needs on it then? Not all classes BoE's are valued equally either. Your method potentially throws up way more caveats than simply rolling need if it's an upgrade, greed if you want to sell.

His speculation is backed up by the majority of the player base, was standard practice for the majority in retail, is how reputable websites define it and how the people who made the game eventually developed the system to make it 100% clear. Yet your logic is apparently superior and it's the rest of us that are being stupid. By your logic, I guess it would be considered a ninja if the BoE in question wasn't available on the AH then? I suppose we should have different loot rules depending on the popularity of the server and the availability of rare items?

Should I go on the authority of the people who made the game, or the random guy on the Internet? Tough choice. Because I brought actual evidence to the argument rather than your random assertions that you're right, I should go and play retail. Yeah makes sense.

How is it different in any way? You would not be able to do what you did from I think WotLK onwards. They specifically introduced this system to stop people like you pulling this kind of shit.

After a quick search of a Paladin pre-raid bis thread from Cata: http://www.wowhead.com/item=76160/drapes-of-the-dragonshrine#dropped-by http://www.wowhead.com/item=67131/ritssyns-ruminous-drape#comments http://www.wowhead.com/item=76154/breastplate-of-despair#comments http://www.wowhead.com/item=76156/bindings-of-the-end-times#dropped-by http://www.wowhead.com/item=67141/corefire-legplates#dropped-by That's not even all the BoE items I found from a quick browse of one thread for one class...

Of course it does, Blizzard recognised this was an issue and changed the system accordingly to stop it from happening.

1. I'm 99% sure that's not true. 2. So its only okay to roll need if its pre-raid BiS? What about epic BoE's that could make you a lot of gold but weren't technically bis?

They changed the loot system so you could only roll need on items that you could use.

Other than the fact that Blizzard changed this themselves in later expansions to stop this exact type of thing happening. Or are you going to tell us the people who made the game are wrong as well?

The problem is you're trying to redefine stuff to suit your argument. It's not effectively 10 gold, its an item. What happens if that item is not on the auction house and the other person can't just grind the gold to buy it? A BoP can be converted into gold too, the argument is exactly the same it's just different quantities of gold involved. Greed is not effectively pass either. If that was the case why is there a separate pass button?

If that was the case then why did Blizzard themselves change the system in later expansions to stop shit like this happening? You can try and justify your greed all you want, but the system was never intended to be used that way.

Sure I'll just dig out all the evidence I kept from 2005 just in case a thread like this came up in 2017... You can look up the vanilla wiki, that explains the difference quite clearly.

I'm talking about the general consensus at the time, not one person's opinion. Unless you're trying to tell me that wasn't how the vast majority of players used the system at that time, in which case you're talking shit.