gamemechanic

Nope. You can't apply existing itemization patches to Elysiums db-server.

Rankers may have lost a little for a week, but will gain much more in the following weeks.

I know. But that blogpost is before 1.9. 11 December, 2005 Super-mana regen is back! 3 January 2006 World of Warcraft Client Patch 1.9.0 indeed.

That blogpost isn't even about multiple debuffs. "Basically you've got so many procs going off, with each one having a chance to trigger Judgement of Wisdom, that on average you'll see 2 JoW procs per swing (that's +118 mana per swing). It's sick. When you see JoW proc 4 times off a single hit (not uncommon), you'll laugh at how rediculous this is." JoW got triggered from weapon hit + procs (seals etc.): https://www.mmorpgitalia.it/threads/paladin-mana-regeneration-trick-exploit.63598/ http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=243&mid=11287757594799940 (There's also a weird effect where Seal of Fury pushes the proc rate of Judgement of Wisdom way up. It seems like you get two or three times as many procs from JoW if you have SoF running, and sometimes you'll see two or three procs for a single swing. This does not work for Judgement of Light however. ) But lets for the sake of the argument assume you are right! The four comments in the blogpost all indicates that this is a bug. The title of the thread on the official wow forums indicate that this an exploit. So if you where right, you have now stated that there is reasonable doubt that the mechanic in question was working as intended.

Then you already know it didn't came back.

Link it. That makes it way easier to discuss.

It's just dumb to bring in TBC mechanics. Since its a know bug due to two spell mod auras being applied.

All other evidence? You are aware that Theloras has only found ONE comment from vanilla that says it works. The comment that said it was removed was even posted by the same guy that said it works.

Posted before patch 1.8. I asked you on discord whats the difference is between the first post comment saying it worked and the second post that says its fixed. Do you remember what you answered? If you haven't figured it out by now, its posted by the same person. This isn't based on stackable judgements. https://www.mmorpgitalia.it/threads/paladin-mana-regeneration-trick-exploit.63598/ http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=243&mid=11287757594799940 (There's also a weird effect where Seal of Fury pushes the proc rate of Judgement of Wisdom way up. It seems like you get two or three times as many procs from JoW if you have SoF running, and sometimes you'll see two or three procs for a single swing. This does not work for Judgement of Light however. )

Not all bugfixes makes it into the patchnotes. I'll assume your next post would either be a proper evidence of the mechanic, a evidence of me lying or an apology.

First: No evidence from late vanilla. You are calling me a liar, but still cant show any evidence. Sorry dude. Give us something to work with or just call it GAME OVER.

People who read this could easily think this is an objective observation. But they can't see that you are tagging Theloras on the paladin discord everytime you are white knight'ing him and trying to discredit me. Stick to discussing facts instead. You where clearly derailing this discussion. I'll share my thoughts now: They probably thought they where right, they keept digging for evidence and got stuck in a discussion they couldn't win. But being to stubborn about it too admit it. That's why KD left and Theloras called me a liar without anything to support it. Anyone can join the open dev discord and look at the discussion. Its quite clear that no evidence from late vanilla could be supplied.

I didn't call it that. I'm stating that he couldn't provide any evidence from late Vanilla and that's a fact.

My thoughts would just be assumptions. There is no point in sharing em, since I can't see how my perception of their motivation and thoughts in any way could contribute to a constructive debate. And it would quite likely be against the forum rules and its not a discussion I morally can join. That's why I wrote: I will not claim that I know what they are doing and I will not express my thoughts about it. And yes I wasn't following what you asked. Consider it a language barrier. Which is probably why Theloras isn't going to supply more shocking evidence of either the mechanic or me lying.

You just claimed for the entire forum that I'm a liar and you aren't going to supply more info? It should be quite easy for you to claim, but this is all you sent me on discord - disregarding TBC bugs. First two blogpost are pre patch 1.8 - the 2nd post even speculates that its fixed. Third post isn't even about stacking judgements. But instead is related to the SoW -> Judgement -> Seal of Fury as described here: https://www.mmorpgitalia.it/threads/paladin-mana-regeneration-trick-exploit.63598/ Rest isn't vanilla. I have even proven the math behind the infamous Onyxia Warder, you can see it in the original thread. Would you please stop the unpleasantly namecalling and stick to the facts.

Show us if you have more evidence.

I'm not sure I'm following you? But you are right, I'm not discussing. I wrote that I want to discuss it, if they have more claims. I have already had several discussions on reddit, discord and in a different thread. Between patch 1.8.0 and 1.12.1 have they only been able to supply one piece of evidence. Its a blogpost describing mana regen from the buggy SoW->Judgement->SoF mechanic. I will not claim that I know what they are doing and I will not express my thoughts about it.

Nope. I'm interested in discussing mechanics and a bit concerned. I must admit, that you guys put effort into it and tried hard, and still. You couldn't find any evidence for this mechanic in late vanilla. When you find that evidence, then let us discuss. Until then, take a break and let it rest.

I'm not here to troll and you can find my motivation in my username. I'm here to discuss gamemechanics. If someone proclaims that a gamemechanic is wrong or should be changed, then i'll be happy to have a discussion about it. Even if Elyssium closes the forum topic, I have requested people to send their so called evidence to me. What other peoples motivation is, that's beyond what I'm going to discuss. You can make your own conclussions about that.

No one has found a shred of concrete evidence that the multiple ranks of the same judgement mechanic existed after patch 1.8 - they only have their own personal beliefs and theories.

Logic. Why should one single debuff behave differently than all other debuffs of that type? Why was there knowledge about it pre 1.8 and not a single video/screenshot/blogpost/form comment of it being used in naxx? There isn't a single evidence of it existing in late Vanilla. "In some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of its occurrence as positive proof of its non-occurrence." — Copi, Introduction to Logic Killerduki and Theloras has spent a lot of time pursuing this, but they haven't found any evidence. That's proof enough for me.

I think it would be nice to have a way to show what post where helpful and could help filter out misinformation - which I personally think there is to much off atm. It could either be a up/downvote or a like system, where contributers are "rewarded".

And you are missing my point. There has been zero evidence that this mechanic existed in late vanilla. I'm openminded and enjoy discussing gamemechanics, so if anyone thinks they have just one evidence that this mechanic existed, feel free to send it to me and we can discuss it.

I can mostly agree with you. But from my point of view useful threads should not be contaminated with false information.