Iliilliill

That's more to a reason, to believe the ban waves are justified. IF they were innocent they would cooperate and provide evidence - but all we see is "din du nuffin" attitude and restriction over communication channels. Quite the opposite of innocent way of conducting.

Lol at this guy. Fam read the ToS, then you might wanna revisit your statement.

Its funny how everybody is so cheeky when doing exploits, but when they get caught they start crying -> DIN DU NUFFIN ! Further more - giving up because of some condition and stopping to contribute towards the goal of the game/activity is called throwing of the game. If you throw of the game you let the other team win by intention. If you purposely let the other team win you are trading the win - if you want to argue that point Iam glad to do so, with the definition of the word trade. What we see in this tread is people admitting to have traded games and writing "but its not trading because I said so". Yeah that's not how it works and iam sure the silent majority of the realm's is gratefull for those ban waves and the work of the GMs and all the people that contribute towards it.

Its a simple matter of dealing with people like @Rapteg . He will defend his greed here in the forums, because there are no consequences, he will flap his mouth. The best thing to do is to Need on all the Items he needs ingame if you meet him following his logic he has no right to get angry or cry ninja - because you will sell all the items for gold, no matter BoP or BoE. If more players did this we would not have such threads in the forums.

So let me see if I understood you - you justify the need for gold based on equal contribution. So you will not get angry if I the healer or tank, roll need on all your rogue items ? You know because I will sell them - no matter if BoE or BoP ?

As you can see I am quite serious. I did gave you reference and all. If you can argue any of the points ill be glad to change my mind. But that is ofc if you can somehow argue the definitions of the word "greed"and the word "need". And if you somehow are able to prove that the player that wants the gold will gain more benefit in that group, than the player that needs the stats of the item. I still say you cant, but go ahead.

Never claimed such a thing, those are your words. The question is not if he can or can not do it. You can do "exploits", you can do "glitches" - but do you use them ? The question is should he or should he not. Because if somebody needs that exact item in the group and it drops he is always the one with priority towards the item. And then again, in your example if the warrior wants the ring it is once again pure greed. He wants the money not the ring - huge difference. Its all the same for him if its the ring or another boe or some material - he greeds it because he wants the monetary value. Whyle the player that will use the stat has no greed towards it, he has need for the benfit of the stats. P.s. Further more, literaly everybody trying to give an example assumes the item will sell at AH for the same Value as the item they are going to buy - this is simply not true in real conditions. If you are going to give an example check it up first, don't use just the perfect example because you wish it to be true.

Yes classic "ad hominem" , great debating tactic used in prep groups in high school, useless in a real debate. Fact is you can not argue not one of the points I made, here are the talking points feel free to thinker on them and crush me at any time: 1. Simple linguistics- choosing the word that better describes the issue, the meaning of the words Greed and Need. 2. Why do people form groups, what is the purpose of the groups - basic definition of what is needed. 3. The ability to benefit from the item right away when you make the decision - or potentially use it to gain some thing in the distant future. 4. Game mechanics, based on your words you can benefit directly from gold equally as much as you can benefit from stats - well I write you are wrong. In fact I am so sure you can not argue any of this points ill even write to you how to kill them al: 1. Prove that the word need is not something that is for your benefit. 2. Prove that people do not form groups for mutual benefit. 3. Provide a method to gain direct benefit from the numerical arbitrary value of the item you think that market has set for the item, in the choise of you pressing need. 4. Simply show us a game mechanic formula that benefits the character (stats, health, dmg etc.) that has gold in it. P.s. If you really did not "give a crap" you would not respond to my post but its too late for now isn't it? There is a good reason why most corps. and public personas do not give response to some thing. P.p.s. Do not feel obligated to respond to this post I know you will read it. But if you feel so much interested a.k.a. you give a crap how you have shown us above, do respond I would love to read you arguing the talking points.

Here is another strong argument: At the moment you have to decide on need or greed if you want to sell the item can you: 1. Sell it? No you cant, you have too loot it , go sell it afterwards. No benefit 2. Exchange it for benefit? No, you have to loot it, sell it afterwards. No benefit 3. Get gear for you, or any consumable? No, you have to loot it, sell it afterwards. No benefit Point being, you do not benefit from the item in anyway - but the guy that needs the stats benefits immediately. Tis one more argument towards why its Greed and not Need.

It is a good thing to see you have started "ad hominem" attacks. This is the first sign of loosing the argument. Just for you I have posted a simple version of the entire thing above this post. The idea of what group is and why it is formed. Or is that dumb too?

Or to put the entire argument in simple text - The thing you call "privillage"i call Right. It is simple : All of you are in a group. All of you contribute towards generating items. In the moment the item is generated - Those who need the stats to gain benefit have both contributed to generating the item and need it. Those who want to sell the item later on the aquire more money have contributed towards generating the item but have greed towards it. THe proper thing to do is to give the right to loot to those that stand to benefit from it. This is the netire purpose of the group - you can not do it alone you need each other for your mutual benefit. Not for your personal benefit. For your personal benefit you can famr alone and have the ultimate right to loot. If nothing else is agreed upon, you will be a ninja if you take away this benefit from people, based on personal greed.

No.1 "First of all, I don't doubt these definitions, what I say is they are applied in a wrong way, and I'll show you why.""- you can consult the Cambridge English Dictionary. This is where the definitions are coming from, supported by examples below them. IF you have problem with them ill gladly refer you the contacts of the people taking care of the dictionary. No.2 On the second remark - if I have 10 000 gold from where I can buy the best gear, will you give me a follow up on that? Because last I checked the only way to aquire gear is to loot it. But more to your remark - gold provides no access to in game items so it is not a need. About the example: having 10 000 gold will not benefit you unlike having 10 000 of the stats your class needs - straight forward I would love to see you argue that, because that is what the example really is -> 10 000 gold<any amount of stat that you need, check in game helath and dmg formation mechanics - tell me if you find where in the formula you insert gold. No.3 To answer your question straight - people demand BoE items because they need them to get better stats. Better stats benefit them. The quote you have taken does not apply, for references look up the examples used in the Cambridge English Dictionary about the context of the meaning of the words need and greed. Once again gold is not present in any character stat creation formula, therefore it does have no benefit. No.4 Once again look up for reference the context examples of greed. Also greed does not imply if you will benefit from the said thing or not. It is not specific to the subject. Need on the other hand is specific that it provides benefit. When communicating and using the language we have to choose the word that most describes the thing we are refering to or there will be miscommunication. In this case Need defines the example better than greed because it is more specific. If you are not happy about that, you can turn to your local English linguistics institute and make a complaint. No.5 You never specified realm nor situation. THis is why I described your statement as bold and silly. YOur exact statement:"Look, if a player who can equip a BoE that dropped in a group "actually needs" it, then he would've bought it on AH already. Oh, he didn't have the gold for that? Then stop pretending that it's not all just about gold. BoE drops = gold drops." Those are your words. Now you are changing the example making it completely diferent . I don't mind the principle is the same - Looting comes before trading. Looting is the method for generating, trading is alternative method for exchanging. If you want an item for the exchange purpose you have greed towards it. IF you want the item because you will use its benefit you have need towards it, once more refer to the Cambridge English Dictionary. No.6 You already debunked that statement with your answer in No.5 - you yourself stated I quote "if there's no market, then there's no market value = no freely traded BoEs" I can bring you the definition of market if you want it. It is not just traders that aquire items. Market is Both the buyers and the traders. You are privileged in the option of looting because you have put value towards generating this item. YOu have grouped with other and provideda service to either DPS, Tank or Heal. THis is a none spoken agreement that you share loot if not stated otherwise. So you have privillage over that item because you have done your part from the group to get this item and you are the one that actually needs it. In fact this is how your need privilege is formed - You contributed towards creating that item, you need the stats. Whyle the one that wants to sell it has contributed towards generating this item yes! , but he has greed towards it so he has no privillage. If you so much want to have ultimate right over that item and "privilege to need it"you can farm solo for it, than you are free to do as you see fit, otherwise you have to respect the group effort or you are a ninja.

Such a bold statement. Just answer me this - so the pioneers in the server that "actually needed" better gear to do the first instances actually bought they gear from auction house? You understand how wildly silly that sounds right? Looting is the source of items, not the auction house. The auction house is a tool for trading items between players, for arbitrary currency. Oh, he didn't have the gold for that? - yes he did not because you do not need gold to play this game nor to gear up. You can gear up purely by doing content without the use of gold and trading with players. But you can not use GOLD for trading between players without anybody actually looting anything.... You should really revisit the way items are generated in this game and look back onto the thing for Need and Greed. P.p. Ofc if you opently say that you Need items that you have greed towards, and you are a "ninja"looter I have no problem with that. You are admitting it and I will just avoid you in groups. Many people will, and the issue will sort itself out. Either nobody will group with you, or more people will adapt your ideology.

Lets look up two word definitions before we proceed with your word play: greed - a very strong wish to continuously get more of something, especially food or money need - if you say that someone or something needs something else, you mean that they should have it, or would get an advantage from having it. Those two definition are very important. The way you described the use of said item fits greed perfectly. Why do you sell it? Because you want more money. Right up there pal, line two. But if you use the item will you gain and advantage ? No you will not, in the case in which you can not equip it or you will sell it. Gold is not an advantage in any way or form, because has no restrictions in the earning process. You can earn it from the beginning, till the very end in more than a thousand ways, you can earn it even providing services. Long story short, you have "greed" towards the said item because you will not use it (I will post the description of the word use if you want to argue it), you will sell it and use the gold. Lets look at the other scenario. A person needs the stats of the items. Why does he need them? Because they will get him an advantage towards the game - in the end of the day this is what this game is PVP and PVE both depend on stats and can do without a single gold spent. But hey cant that be called greed? No because you do not simply want more of the stat, you want a specific amount that you can only aquire only and if only you get certain gear. One of the best examples: It does not matter if you have 1 copper, 1silver , 1 gold or 10 000 gold if a player has better stats than you he will always beat you. Making gold a "greed" part of the game unlike stats. p.p. Blizard also made a very clear non verbal statement about that issue years ago when implementing the need before greed looting system - restricting players for "ninja"looting by force.