Omgdontdie

A friend of mine said IF is now procing off SA on the PTR, so hopefully that fix goes live next dev update. Fingers crossed?

Tested the new fixes. BT and Execute seem to work, but Sunder still doesnt. Could have to do with the fact that doesnt deal damage, or I might have written the conditional wrong. Ill look into it later.

I think you are right, but it kind of depends on the situation. I think for single target CTS+Mala+Flameguard pulls ahead, but once you start cleaving I don't think anything outperforms R14. Either way, if you have any of those 4 combinations you are in a really good spot and the difference is only a matter of a few dps.

In terms of threat, Agrillos is probably right, but 1% parry is nice too. From my experience Mala usually goes to dps first since it is BIS and tanks have other options, but if you already have it its still a great tanking sword.

CTS+Mala+Flameguard will outperform Viskag+CTS+Edgemasters If you really want to tryhard, 2xR14+Edgemasters and IF+CTS+Flameguard(after the fix) should also outperform Viskag+CTS+Edgemasters.

Keep in mind, when I said that some yellows are not affected by weapon skill, i've only experienced this with execute. Sunder required a weapon, so it may very well be affected by weapon skill, I just haven't taken the time to test it. What I do know is that currently, until the next dev build is pushed to live, sunder doesnt trigger main hand weapons, but that is likely due to the fact it doesnt deal damage rather than anything with weapons.

Ive noticed that weapon skill doesnt affect some yellows in the same way. For example, ive had over 9% hit after weapon skill and missed an execute. For the same reason they dont proc main hand weapon hits, id expect that shield slam, sunder, bloodthirst, and execute are not affected by weapon skill. Only evidence I have is for execute tho, so can't really prove the other ones w/o more testing. Also, in response to Ragward - according to the Ely source code, you actually gain a lot of +hit from 300->305 skill against bosses here. 305 weapon skill on this server is a big deal, intentional or not. It also slightly reduces chances of your target block/dodge/parrying your attacks, which is increasingly relevant for tanks since you always attack from the front.

Niri, made some estimates regarding AP breakpoints for IF vs Crul if you are interested.

Now that I'm curious as to what the actual AP break point is to make IF>Crul, for the sake of satisfying my own curiosity, here is how we would break it down using a similar approach to Undertanker: In one minute, we have 25 autos and 30 spells that can trigger Ironfoe. This gives us 2.75ppm(5.5 extra swings) and 3.3ppm(6.6 extra swings) at 5% and 6% respectively. Given that we have 25 autos w/o any procs, 5.5 extra swings from a 5% proc rate is a (25+5.5)/25=1.22=22% increase in damage. Similarly, 6.6 extra swings from a 6% proc rate is a (25+6.6)/25=1.264=26.4% increase in damage. Applying this to IF's base damage only, we get a base dps of 43.5*1.22=53.07 and 43.5*1.264=54.98 at 5% and 6% respectively, without accounting for AP. We already know that the value of Crul's dps is 62.8+(36/14)=65.37. [62.8 base damage + (36/14) damage from AP] This leaves a deficit of 65.37-53.07=12.3dps and 65.37-54.98=10.39dps that needs to be made up by AP at 5% and 6% respectively. To work this out backwards, we simply use the AP formula and multiply it by IF's damage modifier. We get (AP/14)*0.22=12.3 and (AP/14)*0.264=10.39 at 5% and 6% respectively. Solving with basic algebra, we get the following breakpoints... At a 5% proc rate, IF>Crul @ 783 AP. At a 6% proc rate, IF>Crul @ 551 AP. Note: these break points are BEFORE we account for weapon skill. Given these values though, even orcs might prefer IF>Crul with BWL gear and buffs. As always, if any of you fellow nerds/warriors find anything wrong, let me know!

Vilius, you did the math that I was too lazy to do. Those numbers look very realistic. Currently, QS is a bit under tuned because sunder isn;t proccing weapons, but it should be getting a sizable buff after the next dev update (assuming the fix works).

While I disagree about the break point being 1k ap, the TLDR is the same. Both are great for threat, and Crul gives you some extra suitability at the cost of some TPS.

Classic forum reaction for when you run out of rational responses. On a more related note though, definitely keep the posts coming if you have relevant information that checks out. At the very least, I learned something today from digging up the rage formulas again.

Since your math seems to be all over the place, I'll try to distill this down to as simple terms as possible. In 1 minute: 40GCDs = 10 Shield Slams and 30 revenge/sunders, 60/2.4 = 25 autos. (30+25)*0.05 = 2.75 ppm. (Note: The proc rate is likely closer to 6%) Assume: 750AP (minimum, given a buffed BWL tank). All else equal between weapons (no armor, hit capped, no block/dodge/parry/glancing) Ironfoe's average hit: (750/14+43.5)*2.4=232.97 damage 2.75 procs in a minute implies 2.75*232.97*2/60=21.3 dps just from the proc. [(#procs)*(Damage)*(2 Swings)/(60 seconds)] Ironfoe's base damage is 43.5 dps. The value of the proc is 21.3 dps. 21.3+43.5=64.8 dps. Keep in mind this is the most CONSERVATIVE estimate for a BWL tank. Let us now assume 1000AP. Ironfoe's average hit: (1000/14+43.5)*2.4=275.8 damage 2.75 procs in a minute implies 2.75*275.8*2/60=25.3 dps just from the proc. [(#procs)*(Damage)*(2 Swings)/(60 seconds)] Ironfoe's base damage is 43.5 dps. The value of the proc is 25.3 dps. 25.3+43.5=68.8 dps. Now if we look at Crul, we only really have to consider two things. Base damage and attack power. Let me do that for you too. Crul's base damage is 62.8. The 36 attack power from Crul is equivalent to 36/14=65.4 dps. Edit: fixed a minor typo

You forgot to include Ironfoe's base weapon damage when calculating proc dps. The value from the proc is (50+43.5)*31.2% if we do it your way. Also, your 31.2% number is inflated because Shield Slam doesn't trigger main hand weapons here.

I'm just trying to help you to get more accurate numbers and correct false information. Calculating buff uptime isn't as simple as taking a mean. In regards to dodge/miss/parry, let us revisit my comment... Here is some entry level statistics relevant to proc uptime: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisson_distribution