Omgdontdie

For an orc, my best guess is the following (World Buffed>=Raid Buffed): Lionheart Helm Prestor's >= Onyxia Tooth (Eye of Hakkar iff you are not crit capped) Truestrike >= Drake Talon Puissant >= Draconic Might Malfurion's >= Cadaverous Wristguards of Stability >= Berserker Bracers Edgemaster's (bosses only) >= Flameguard Onslaught R12 Legs Chromatic Boots Quickstrike + Master Dragonslayer HoJ + DFT 2xR14 >> Crul + Doom's Edge (possibly CTS with Edgemaster?) Striker's Mark

The SQL files have it at 1.75 ppm. Shield slam does not proc main hand here. That gives approx 3 procs per minute (if you are hit capped). Assuming no overlap, that gives us 50% uptime. Realistically, its not uncommon that the procs overlap. You'd have to use a poisson distribution to estimate a realistic uptime if you account for overlaping. An expected value of 50% uptime is your best case scenario here. 77% is beyond inaccurate.

"Gains windfury", could simply be from windfury totem applying the buff to your weapon, different from gaining extra windfury attacks. Again, i dont play horde so not sure. Also, extra attacks can happen on immune mobs, at least with Ironfoe. Ive had Ironfoe proc on banished/immuned mobs many times.

SQL file has QS at 5.833% proc rate. 75% up time seems a bit optimistic.

Comparing QS and IF, QS is better for suitability and IF is better for TPS. For survivability, not sure which is better, Bloodlord's defender or QS, personally I would probably go with Bloodlord's for consistency. IF is BIS for TPS until Thunderfury in a raid setting (not sure where Undertanker got his numbers but I did some basic estimating on my "Ironfoe Testing" post). If you are an orc, Crul might be comparable with the extra weapon skill. Alcor's is a niche weapon used for Vael, but on that specific fight it is a must-have. At the very least you should have a 1.3 dagger (finkle's skinner comes to mind) that lets you spam heroic strike until you can get your hands on one.

1. No. 2. Yes. 3. This could be yes, but im not sure. I might be able to explain your combat log though. From my understanding, execute has 2 components, and this complication makes it not trigger main hand chance on hits. That might explain why it triggers HoJ, but not windfury (since windfury is a weapon enchant). Hopefully the next dev update fixes this. 4. Not sure, and its hard to test since it is a low probability event. My intuition tells me yes. 5. Currently, no. Next dev update, I hope so! 6. Currently, no. QA team seems to considers shield slam/bash triggering main hand procs a bug that was patched in 2.0 7. After the fix, sunder should be procing enchants and extra hits like windfury procs. Extra attacks shouldnt proc chance on hits that generate more extra attacks. However, extra attacks should be procing chance on hit abilities that are not extra attacks like enchants. 8. I think so. Depends on what you consider physical damage. I don't know if it procs off dots like rend, but maybe it procs off the first application of rend? I also think that this trinket is ppm based, ie the slower the weapon the greater the proc chance per hit. Druids use slow weapons, but in reality they attack at 1.0, so I think they get an abnormally large benefit from this. The SQL file shows it having 1 ppm. However, I have no evidence the trinket works this way and I cant confirm this since I don't play druid. 9. Like #8, not too sure on this. 10. Like #8, not sure. I would think it would after the fix though. To counter Undertanker's point, I think the "immune" argument doesn't apply here. Based on my testing, I believe that the result of a hit/miss/crit etc is rolled and calculated and then afterwards the mob will be immune to the damage - so the attack still registers as a hit that does damage, but the target just happens to be immune to that damage. A little bit different than casting a spell/ability that does no damage to begin with. 11. Cleave and WW, yes. Sweeping strikes, i'm not sure but I dont think so (for main hand weapons at least, not sure about Malestrom and HoJ). Sweeping strikes and retaliation behave in weird ways I believe. Another comment in response to Undertanker's bonus on chain procs. I know extra swings can trigger other non-extra swing procs, but I have never actually seen something like fiery/maelstrom proc another fiery/maelstrom and this could be due to a lack of extensive testing. What he is posting seems to be based on what he believes should happen, but might not necessarily reflect what happens on this server. If you are adamant about testing this, I would recommend getting fiery, and see if you can get a double proc from one white swing.

Also, in response to Undertanker, the one relevant thing I saw in your post was and I kinda agree, but this is the direction the QA team wants to take. If 2.0 patched it as a bug fix, seems reasonable enough imo.

To answer people with the Ironfoe for threat question, I'll do some paper napkin math for you. Lets assume you are using an ability for every global, since you should be in a raid setting. Every minute, you will do about 10 shield slams, the rest will be revenge or sunder. Every minute you have 30 special attacks and 25 auto attacks that can proc Ironfoe. With a 5% proc rate, thats 2.75 procs per minute on average. This number is probably higher in reality, since the SQL files show a 6% proc rate. For the following numbers, im pulling stats off my tank gear (which is mediocre at best). I have 305 AP, and 249 str unbuffed. With raid buffs (kings, mark, might, battle shout etc), as a conservative estimate you can expect about 750 AP on a raid geared tank. This means that using Ironfoe, each hit will do an average of (740/14+43.5)*2.4=231.26 damage (lets assume 0 armor for simplicity). 2.75 procs in a minute gives us 2.75*231.25*2/60=21.2 dps just from the proc. If we add the value of the proc to Ironfoe's dps, we can see that 21.2+43.5=64.7 dps. The white damage alone from the proc makes it outclass any weapon for TPS except for Thunderfury, without even considering the rage component. The only downside is the unpredictable nature of the proc, but if you consider the rage gained from it in addition to the extra damage, you can see that the expected value of TPS puts Ironfoe miles ahead of any other epic weapon in BWL content. Keep in mind these are VERY conservative estimates. If we assume a player's race is human, gear is T2 BIS, raid buffs like ZG, RC, and Jujus, or a higher procrate (up to 6%), this number only increases (by quite a large amount actually). A common mistake that people make when trying to model the damage from this weapon is they don't consider the damage they gain from their attack power. Simply multiplying the weapon's dps by 1.1 and converting extra rage to threat is lazy math. If you really want to get into the details, you would have to consider things like damage reduction from armor, crit chance, weapon skill, rage gain, how you convert that rage into threat, etc. For simplicity, I kept all things equal, since these factors are the same no matter which weapon you use (except for maybe Vael).

I don't play a druid, but my understanding is that amount of damage reduction from armor has diminishing returns, but in terms of effective health damage reduction has increasing returns. Ends up being a pretty linear increase to 75%. Stamina is obviously good for any tank. The more the better. Dodge has increasing returns in terms of damage reduction and doesn't suffer from diminishing returns like armor. For example, 100% dodge is infinitely better than 99% dodge. I don't think this is really relevant for gear in vanilla, its mostly a TBC problem. Hit is good for threat. More is better. Defense is still good. You cant become uncritable, but you can still become less critable, which is still important For all of these stats, obviously more is better. Druids value armor more than other classes, for example rings and trinkets with armor are very valuable to bears. Wowwiki might be a good place to start, at least for mitigation. http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Level_60_druid_tanking_equipment

You are going to have the complete opposite problem at 60 tho. Getting into a raid as a tank or a fury warrior is a lot harder than getting into a raid as a caster dps/healer

TBH leveling a priest isnt that bad... leveling melee like a warrior or rogue is probably worse.

There was a miscommunication I think. The QA team seemed to be against implementing Shield Slam, since it was a bug. They were willing to investigate sunder armor, bloodthirst, and execute tho.

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/pull/1062 Trying to find a better way to fix Bloodthirst w/o listing a bunch of spell IDs. Basically, there isnt a class mask for the spell Bloodthirst and I am not very familiar with wow EMU so implementing a new mask might be beyond me right now.

There was a miscommunication. It is now a QA confirmed issue.

134, but I know two people who got it in 3, and another who got it in 57. Pure RNG

So it seems like there was a miscommunication on my part. My PRs got denied because I grouped shield slam with BT/SA/Execute. BT/SA/Execute is making another pass through QA. Fingers crossed fellow warriors

I took some advice from someone in the dev discord and split up the fixes in to separate pull requests for each ability. I made separate pull requests for... -Removing proc from Shield Bash (Since this is the stance they seem to be taking) -Fixing proc from Bloodthirst -Fixing proc from Sunder Armor -Fixing proc from Execute Added a special note for the last 3 requesting any patch note that might classify the main hand interactions as bugs. I think the QA team might have been getting the abilities Shield Bash/Slam confused with the last three or were misreading the patch notes. I'm curious as to which of these fixes will go through or if QA supplies any evidence at all if they get denied.

I would have to check the code, but I would assume that because trinkets are not weapon procs, that they would behave differently. I specifically tested chance on hit from main hand weapons. Initially with Ironfoe+Crusader, but once I noticed some blaring inconsistencies, I increased my sample size with a 2.8 speed sword+fiery to make sure it wasn't bad RNG. Abilities which require a weapon and deal damage seem to be working as intended, but literally anything that doesn't fit that category (except for shield bash for some reason) doesn't work correctly. Bloodthirst, is a little bit different. While it does not require a main hand weapon, I found evidence (lots of it actually) that it triggers main hand procs. Bloodthirst has procced mainhand weapons since it was introduced, even throughout BC and Wotlk if I recall correctly. Edit: Execute, although it fits that category, is also broken.

I 100% understand the decision to deny Shield Slam and Shield Bash. Clearly these were bugs, even though they happened during vanilla. I am surprised that the QA team isn't willing to fix sunder armor though. I looked through past patch notes saying sunder armor triggering procs was a bug, but I was unable to. As far as I know, sunder armor has always procced main hand triggers. Intuitively, it makes sense too, since it requires a mainhand after all. If the QA team has a reference to patch notes saying something along the lines of "sunder armor triggering procs was a bug and has been fixed" that would be great (I'm actually looking for this as we speak because I want to believe the QA team), but I'm worried that the QA team is just making things up and stating it as fact. Furthermore, dismissing Shield Slam as a bug while coding Shield Bash to proc weapons is inconsistent. Nothing about the QA team's decision adds up, which is why myself and many other warriors are confused about this.

They keep saying "patch notes were clear about it" but I can't find any patch notes aside from changes to shield bash and shield slam, and even those aren't consistent. Am I missing something?

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/pull/1029 Pretty much confirmed sunder procs mainhand on retail, sunder has always triggered procs on retail, but they think it is a bug so they won't fix it.

I have to agree with you, Darrowshire pop is dwindling and I already know for a fact that a lot of people who play here now will also be playing on Gummy's TBC when it releases. I'm hoping that the Zeth merge will bring a short term boost to the population so a merge might be premature to do now, but I would definitely support a merge with Anathema as the long-term solution in the future.

Memes & Magic still no BWL swords. 0 CTS, 0 Mala RIP feelsbadman

Also, keep in mind that right now Bloodthirst and Execute are not triggering procs for BRE. I discovered this recently and posted about it here: forum.elysium-project.org/topic/48239-ironfoe-testing/

BRE proc rate is 2.6ppm based on the SQL files, ie 14.73% proc rate. If WhiteMHConnects includes windfury, then my formula would be wrong for horde, but not for alliance - thanks for letting me know. I believe ROIDS is already in the spreadsheet. Just highlight all on the tab where you select gear, and set the text color to black or something visible, and you should see the boolean values next to the buffs and you can change them as you please. To add DM buffs, like Fengus's Ferocity, you can just add a cell with a TRUE of FALSE value, and where the total attack power is calculated, add +200*(cell holding boolean). Edit: I am opening the sheet using excel online, so the way booleans show up may be different for me. I don't know what it looks like in proper excel - it might be a dropdown box or something. This is just what I have been doing.