Nenyana

Idk about u magnus, but I take quality advice from dis guy boiiis! Anyway, I enjoyed a lot of these fixes, which for some of them goes way back! Indirectly I expect Ironfoe (and other proccalicious items) to become even more OP for warrs, get rekt Sebbiboi! Sad to see such harsh alteration of pvp-ranking being made without seemingly little-to-none interactions with the pvp-ranking community. Whilst the rankers might feel betrayed atm, I think devs will admit that these changes will kill an already heavily challanged pvp community, and revert the que limits sooner rather than later. Then again, devs don't seem to like my proposals, so maybe I just jinxed it.

Can you please elaborate what is wrong with Ignite? Atm no one knows exactly what the bug is! I mean, I've spoken to several mages terrified of using their firespec in raids... Why aren't we allowed to discuss it? Why have you made no statements about this?

Since the previous thread involving this topic got locked (e.g. censored) because of touching the subject "ongoing ban appeals", this thread will only serve as a much-needed discussion concerning what's actually wrong with Ignite on Anathema. In the previous thread (that now is closed), we pretty much came to the conclusion that we can rule out that it's PI that's causing the insane Ignite ticks; it only makes it build even higher and faster (which is just as it should), hence disabling PI is wrong. If anyone has access to a private-private server with the anathema core, I would be happy to engage several people to come and do testing! if you have any thoughts or insights to why Ignite builds so insanely high, please share them here. Let's help the devs sort this out so they don't have to overreact again.

Indeed, this is exactly the report I was referring to. This would be the expected, and more balanced way to handle it IMO. Also making clear exactly WHAT we are doing wrong, and how to avoid it without nerfing the fire spec to pieces would be helpful. The way I see it, there is no way we could have avoided doing that high dmg at that particular Hakkar fight which aprantly is why 11 of our guildies (myself included) got banned for. We have a very active and strong mage core in our guild (Conspiracy), and we prefer to always go mage-heavy comps simply because they outpreform all the other dps. Like I said, with 10 highly competative minmaxing firemages, all trying to win the meter its impossible not to get a sick rolling ignite going for a long uptime. We are basically always 100% world buffed in raids, and with 100% consumables (minus flask, which is only mandatory in progression or at special occasions) each mages personal crit rating is between 35-45% depending on gear. Do you see the point I'm trying to make here? :)

Ait, keep in mind I had nothing to do with that kill, and I don't like comparing our fun-run ZG kills to a progressional c'thun kill in the 1st(?) day of progress. We have never ever come close to numbers like these anyway. when looking through our logs now we mostly find ticks of 8-12k, some few higher than that. Atm we're looking at this figth: https://legacy-logs.com/Vanilla/Raids/Evaluation/DmgDone/index.php?rid=7161&attempts=351418,351427,351440,351449,351457,351463,351476,351483&player=43307&sel=351483&pet=0&tarid=&mode=0 Look at the dmg spike at the end there: from 9k ignite to 17k in 2sec. We have no idea how we accomplished that, but we're trying to find out. I did not have PI in that fight, only MQG, Berserking and Combustion. The closest thing we've found to PI in this kill is that we found one guy (Mazkin) using AP 8 seconds before the huge Ignite increase, with his first crit 10 seconds into AP. My ignite builds from 4149 (exactly at the time the AP Fireball crit hits) to 9497 (2 secs later), and then a whopping 17018 Ignite 2sec after that. What do you guys think?

I heard C'thun takes double dmg in his vulnerable phase? I've never killed c'thun before, my guild didn't come past phase 1 in vanilla retail so. Please enlighten me if I'm wrong? Still a bit on the side of the point tho. ATM me and my fellow officers are studying all our old logs trying to find out how we bugged/abused it. We have no clue tbh...

That's because this bug has nothing to do with PI. The fact that the devs have found a correlation between high ignite ticks and PI is just a statistical error IMO (e.g. not done thorough enough research before banhammer + PI disable). I have seen plenty of logs, including own experience with very impressive ignite ticks without PI. I've even linked u logs with sick ignite dmg where I didn't have PI. In future I hope ppl will READ the posts before replying to them.

He gives a +dmg bonus, yes. Yet we are actually comparing this to another example that also infact have the same dmg multiplier of 200% (<Sorry> C'thun kill). On a sidenote, kinda nice of u to join the debate killerduki, as it was u (iirc) who made the initial bug report to get ignite fixed? Actually, it might be the very same "fix" that has made Ignite work as intended back in retail vanilla. Sadly none seemingly understood fully what this actually ment. To me it is important to emphasize that we are actually getting punished for a ZG fun run that we got no gains ingame for. Being compared to someone who used it to down one of the most hardcore fights known to wow hist, pre-nerf c'thun, is just ridiculus in my opinion... Why would we post logs and videos in open forums, share it with our friends etc. if we were, to quote Pottu "exploiting scumbags" planning to use this to gain unvaforable advantages in progression? Need I remind everyone we just spent 2 nights wiping on skeram before getting banned. The logical rationale of the ban just doesn't fit here...

If you would care to read my posts, I explained it ALL there. I think this might be a L2R issue?

BTW, they actually banned a frost mage from our guild too, I guess it was to be on the safe side.

Ok, so we did some digging to prove that 1) it's NOT PI that's bugged, and 2) we didn't intentionally put PI on the one who got the ignite. Since u can't track debuffs in raidstats, legacy logs is a much more reliable source of information when it comes to "proof" in this case. https://legacy-logs.com/Vanilla/Raids/Evaluation/DmgDone/index.php?rid=7161&attempts=351418,351427,351440,351449,351457,351463,351476,351483&player=&sel=0&pet=0&tarid=&mode=0 Take a look at these logs from a ZG some days after the run we apparently got banned for. I (Nenyana) is the only one receiving PI throughout the whole ZG run - yet I only crush the meters once. Nevertheless, we have other players able to get their Ignite to stack to insane numbers like this one where Mazkin (newly ranked with bad pve gear actually) get 2585 dps on Hakkar WITHOUT PI!. https://legacy-logs.com/Vanilla/Raids/Evaluation/DmgDone/index.php?rid=7161&attempts=351418,351427,351440,351449,351457,351463,351476,351483&player=54464&sel=351418&pet=0&tarid=&mode=0 If you examine all our logs from this time in ZG, you can find exactly the same proof over and over. We did NOT pair the Ignite with PI - PI was just assigned to our normal players (e.g. the ones who always get it in 40man raids), and the initial Ignite was FFA. So first of all PI is NOT bugged, neither is AP. Second, Ignite is "bugged" in the way Slicy is saying, just like it was in original vanilla retail. Out of ALL the players outside our guild, devs and GMs I've seen spoken about it, Slicy is actually the only one that gets it.

Banning us and giving reason "we looked at ur logs, you cheating exploiting scumbags". If you actually had looked at our logs you would have seen that we only did it on bosses we had on easy free-loot farm. As I explained in above post, we even got loot from a GM for the Hakkar kill we got banned for. This all just makes no sense to me. Never before seen numbers? One quick look at youtube prove u otherwise -> Our highest tickes ever isnt far from these numbers, and in this video is just seems like a lucky Ignite-rolling. We are actually basing our whole comp/gameplay around maxing Ignite dmg - ofc its going to get bigger than someone who didn't.

We actually didn't get any loot from Hakkar this run (the vid), because the mage with aggro (the POV from vid) was mind controlled whilst the boss died. I submitted a ticket regarding loot, and we actually got the loot two days later for this "abusive" kill. If it actually was abusing, I would've thought the GM who awarded us the loot would tell us/ban us then, not months later... This all just reeks of unprofessionalism. The fun thing is, if you look at other kills we have, for instace my 3.5k world reckord dps at the fish boss, I didn't even have PI. It's NOT PI that's bugged. If something is bugged it's got to be how Ignite stack. The cooldowns like PI and Arcane Power only adds to the stacking, and I'm also suspecting that the PI/AP applies to the whole duration of Ignite, not just for it's own duration (as it should - remember this is vanilla, not legion). If anyone should be banned it's me. I am the Mage CL in Conspiracy, and I was the one preparing for this for months and months. I've done exstensive maths and countless spreadsheets to perfect the Ignite dmg. Would I have done this, and involved all my mages in this if I thought it was bannable? No. I simply believed, after reading a lot of sources online, that Ignite is working just as it should in a vanilla server. Why should I report something I don't personally think is a bug? If everyone reported everything they ever wondered, the elysium bugtracker would be a total shitfest. I can confirm everything Benalius has stated in OP. I take full responsibility for our ZG runs that basically broke the meters on every ZG boss we tried with our setup, involving a critmage & 9 other Ignite mages. We also tried it in MC once, but only worked properly in 1 try - 3500dps on golemagg, world #1. Like benalius is stating - do you really think we would have uploaded these logs/videos if we thought we were abusing? Do you really think we are that reckless/care so little? In fact, the reason me and many others have acted borderline childish and idiotic since ban yesterday is because we were caught so off guard in the mids of our AQ progression. So many months of exiting waiting for a fun experience with our amazing guild community, all down the drain because of a fun run where we actaully got NO benefits, apart from cool logs, 2months ago. The injustice I feel is hard to discribe. I lost my full bis mage (-2items), my Druid with eye of rag and very close to finished mats to craft Mace, and my biggest banks containing insane ammounts of valuables, Mounts, mats and ingots. Even tho I still have 2x lvl 60 good geared chars left on other accs, I feel there is no reason to keep playing at this serv now. I feel my next theorycrafting will just be concidered a new abuse, even tho I stay within the parameters of the game mechanics, since there seem to be no way for me to tell whats abusive exploiting or not. - Nenyana