Fiers

By the time players are able to gather AQ loot, upgraded PvP gear for each class is already mostly or completely out of date. The most appropriate time to update the PvP gear, to have it be relevant, is with the ZG patch. It is far enough past BWL release to be entirely irrelevant for BWL progression, and ZG is a step down in difficulty. Given that AQ loot replaces PvP gear, PvP gear *has* to be updated *before* AQ to have any meaningful use outside of PvP. Especially with BG queues being nerfed to make ex-ranker premades impossible, there's literally no reward for ranking or having ranked, unless the update is moved significantly up on the timeline. The best time to do the update is at the same time as ZG. The much worse but still better than nothing option is to release it along with the AQ war effort - so that it would at least have any period of relevance, albeit a short and sad one. But I really hope the Elysium Team recognizes the importance of a 1000++ hour PvP grind not being permanently behind ~20 hours of raiding. Raiding 10 hours a week (not sure why you'd ever need that long, but just for easy numbers), from server release in MC, til Naxx completion, would still fall short of the amount of time every rank 13 or 14 player spent grinding. Having the gear updated at a time while it'd still be actually relevant should be a relatively easy request to grant.

Most guilds/raids didn't get buffs prior to most raids. We'd save ony heads and/or the ZG buff, but it wasn't until Naxx that some guilds started really coordinating the full use of world buffs prior to a raid. My guild, which cleared Naxx before TBC, did not go beyond the rallying cry and ZG buffs, because the time and effort and coordination was only efficient if you didn't wipe, and that's not how raids went for the vast majority of guilds at the time, even for those few of us able to clear Naxx - but there was talk of it, and we knew that the top guilds did it. So, being able to do it is clearly blizzlike, even if it wasn't commonly done. All the Felwood flowers were sharable. We regularly farmed nightdragons and tubers in small groups. If it was abusive, it was an abusive mechanic that wasn't addressed or changed for the entirety of retail vanilla in spite of being widely used. I see no reason either should be changed.

How does time and patience fix losing 2-3 weeks? Don't know why they wouldn't be. A month or two ago, Elysium had a major issue with rankings, where there was a massive honor miscalculation. During maintenance, their RP was calculated, and then a second week was accounted for based on the prior day's honor or something along those lines. The Elysium team worked their asses off that week to try to fix that whole mess. Should they have not bothered fixing the situation, and instead simply told everyone to suck it up and get over it, because it's "nothing that time and patience can't fix"? What we've got here is another group of pvpers enduring an extra week of decay due to reasons entirely out of their control. The contexts are vastly different, but situations are similar. And even without the similarities, it's a situation that merits attention and, if possible, a solution.

I'd guess Ashkandi by a narrow margin, since it has about a 10% higher top and bottom end hit dmg and ~55 ap in value (a rough value for +86ap minus 1% crit) to attempt to offset the BRE proc. And if you're clearing BWL, you should be using 1hers instead of either of these 2h swords for raiding.

Darrowshire merging into Elysium makes no sense when Anathema is ahead of it in content, closer in timeline, both servers are in need of a population boost, and Elysium would be harmed by such a change rather than aided. To go backwards on the timeline, you'd need to remove the vast majority of gear/items, and you'd still be some advantage in some ways, with no corresponding benefit to Elysium the server or the Elysium Project as a whole. The main reason they made Anathema the default server for ZK players was to prevent over-flooding the Elysium server. They may say differently, but in all likelihood, moving additional players to or from the Elysium server after the ZK players arrive will not be up for discussion in the foreseeable future. While a PvE server merging into a PvP server isn't ideal, I can't see how that would be so important as to merit letting either or both servers die to avoid. The PvE/PvP "leveling experience" is a very small portion of overall playtime for most active players, and any benefit of having an easier time leveling would be more than outweighed by Darrowshire denizens being behind in gear and content compared to Anathemians. As a Zeth'Kur native, having just gone through 4 months on this topic, where 1 month was spent begging for an xfer or merge, 1 month discussing the options for an xfer or merge, and 2 months waiting for the actual xfers to begin, the conversation needs to happen ASAP. If some sort of xfer or merge from Darrowshire and/or Anathema is not a topic that the leads of the Elysium Project would consider, they should inform players of that decision. But if it is something they would consider, even if not in the near future, or only if the conditions continue deteriorating (basically any answer other than a definitive no), it is important to start the discussion now. Because it'll take a looooong time to go through the options and begin implementing them, and if it takes a month or two or three to start having the discussion, then either the situation will last longer than it needs to, or potential options and solutions will be left out of consideration. I'd recommend the Elysium team start by opening the conversation up to suggestions for anyone on either server (as opposed to, say, beginning with a poll on a limited number of predetermined options, only for players of one of the servers), with a few bullet points of what they will/won't consider, i.e. "1) The Elysium server is not a part of this discussion - only Darrowshire and Anathema. 2) Moving PvE players to a PvP server is [not up for discussion] or [only an option of last resort] or [not a problem in light of the significant population issues], 3) Any option must consider the needs of players on both servers, not just your own", etc, similar to how we were told that changing the content timeline or XP rates on ZK were not options. Once they have options, discuss internally the pros and cons of each, come up with the top 1 or 2 that Devs might actually be able to implement, and open them up for discussion again, for people to voice their questions, concerns, and support for each part. That way, there aren't (many) surprises down the road, or issues that were never considered (like the PvP situation for high ranked players on ZK, or the issue of char names (inactive char names being freed up was mentioned, but never finalized!), or a request for guilds to be preserved (which was not really a part of the discussion, but ended up being doable anyway!)).

Easy access to some mats. No access to rarer items. An anemic AH on both factions for *months*, on which a single player was able to monopolize a huge portion of. Also, with xfers to servers other than Elysium open as well, many of our prices skyrocketed far beyond what they otherwise would have been, as Anathema players with ZK alts stocked up to make themselves exceptionally wealthy. But all of that is largely irrelevant. Any minor economic advantages are completely separate from PvP, which is the topic at hand. It's not "xferring players are screwed", it's the higher ranked players who are screwed. In a specific, major way, on top of being screwed for months. It's been significantly harder to rank on ZK than Elysium, due to how small our brackets are - I know outside players look at our honor caps, and laugh at how low they are most weeks compared to Elysium, but they have no idea. Rankers haven't finished farming their week's honor before Tuesday night in months, and a single premade that all played together the entire week would span from bracket 1 to bracket fucking **5**. In proportion to the number of players on our server, our brackets have been over twice as small as Elysium's, and even worse for people who are actually ranking. We barely managed to get a 4th rank 14 before transfers, compared to ~50 on Elysium. We had 9 or 10 rank 13s, to Elysium's ~90. Most pvpers have spent the last 3-4 weeks simply trying to stop or slow decay and wait for the transfers, because actual progressing was only possible for a few people at a time. Bracket 1 on alliance was taken by an account sharing chinese player who was online 23 hours a day for a month (starting when they were rank 6 or 7) before they finally got banned. But that's all offtopic too, and in the past - none of that really matters in this topic. This thread is specifically about how the xfers themselves have completely fucked our higher ranked players. That by not being able to play for the last 36 hours and counting, plus not having 3 days of saved marks (all mail is left behind in the transfers), no one from ZK at rank 11+ has any realistic chance of not decaying this week. And that's without sweating the fact that ZK players are unknowns on a much bigger server with established rules and brackets and players that our players have to figure out and try to find their way into. Which is perfectly fine and reasonable -- if ZK players can't fight our way to the top of the system on Elysium, they don't deserve to rank up further -- but not when they're all at a massive handicap right from the start. Given how far behind everyone already is, PvPers would rather the transfers not even finish until after *next* Wednesday's maintenance, and lose the week entirely, than try to farm in < 5 days (and shrinking) what everyone else has had 7 to do. There is no counter to the point this thread is making. It is undeniable fact that if nothing is done to address the situation, then high ranked ZK players are getting screwed, at no fault of their own, and completely of their control. Any attempt to dismiss, minimize, or distract from the issue by people in this thread or elsewhere is simply invalid. The only reasonable responses from staff are either "We agree, and will seek out and implement the best possible solution for those most affected by this situation", or "We agree, and in spite of our best efforts, there are unfortunately no options at our disposal that can improve or resolve the situation appropriately." Of course we're happy to be able to play at all. Of course we appreciate that it's free, and the efforts of everyone involved. Of course we're lucky to be getting transferred off ZK instead of left alone to die. But that doesn't mean that no criticism can be voiced, that no other issues deserve attention, or that appreciation for those things means that no one has a right or basis for requesting resolution to massive issues. We greatly appreciate the staff acknowledging the issue, and bringing it to the attention of those capable of addressing it. We sincerely hope some sort of resolution or mitigation of the problem can be found and implemented.

Yes, more people can rank with larger brackets. But not when you have 1-2 days and 50-100k honor in marks less than the natives.

You are saying "the solution to your ranking situation is to give up ranking". That is not a solution, not helpful, and not appropriate.

It's not one week. For a rank 13 player, as I said, it's a month. And as a rank 3 player, you cannot properly appreciate the situation rankers are in. You are NOT one of the rankers I speak of. You are much better off, even with 5-6 days, than you would have been with 7 on ZK. In no way is this move problematic for someone in your situation (same goes for me on my alt). But for high ranked players, this is a catastrophe. If there is nothing that can be done, that is one possible response, and people will take it as they will. But the issue is of sufficient import to those that it does affect that it at least merits discussion and the effort to solve in any way possible and realistic. This is something affecting people that have put over 1000 hours into the PvP grind, and if left alone, will tack on hundreds more. It's an unbearable end to months of effort for the most hardcore players, who have already been suffering immensely due to ZK's uniquely horrible situation.

Thank you for the opportunity to elaborate. I will gladly answer your questions, and ignore the incorrect blame you place. As far as your misplaced demand of appreciating what they've done - of course the xfers are appreciated. It should be shouted from the rooftops from now til the end of the Project, how they cared enough to save the players of ZK. But that's not the topic here. Marks of honor are lost in the transfer, past the stack of 20, putting ZK rankers at a large deficit right from the start. On top of that, ZK rankers will be at least 1 day, and potentially more, behind the Elysium players, as all ZK players are all sitting in limbo, unable to farm honor. These two factors make it impossible for high ranking players to have any chance of a fair competition of ranking this week, and all high rankers will likely suffer some level of decay as a result. This is the way that ZK players are unfairly "boned" by the xfers. If ZK players are unable to win their games, farm kills, put in the time, and gather sufficient honor to rank up, that's on them. But the inability to gather marks and to farm honor for at least a day puts them at a huge disadvantage that merits action. It is not their fault. Several rankers have been farming honor for weeks just to prevent decay, because our anemic brackets are too small to allow them to rank. They could not have possibly ranked faster to avoid this issue (and if they had managed to take bracket 1, for example, then another player would be in the exact same situation instead, making it a moot point). There is no "grinding enough honor to climb" before the transfer. Short of no one trying to rank up for the last several months, nothing could have been done to prevent this. When our current high rankers started their grind, 4-5 months ago, there was no way of predicting they would be in this situation now, or preventing it. So, on to the issue itself. I myself am not involved - I finished ranking 2 months ago, and speak on behalf of others. This is an issue that uniquely harms those at high ranks. For someone at rank 13, 1 week of decay (which you realistically need bracket 3 to matter - standard bracket 4 RP is the same as no honor at all when 20% decay is at play, capped at 50% of a rank) not only loses the week that progress could/should have been made, but also slides backwards 2 weeks of progress, adding 3 additional weeks to their grind. A similar, though smaller issue, is at play for those in ranks 12 and 11, where the setback from no marks and 1+ days behind will likely hamper their ability to farm honor beyond a level of preventing decay. For someone at rank 10, 5-6 days of honor farming is almost certainly enough to at least reach bracket 5-6, where decay is prevented or progress is made. For anyone under rank 10, there isn't really a question about it - they'd rather not have their progress frozen, and farm, so they get some progress. Less than they'd get in 7 days of farming, but still some progress. For those few player (and there are sadly not very many) at high ranks from ZK, a freeze is necessary to avoid costing them both this week and 1-3 additional weeks of grinding honor, for something entirely out of their control. They don't want special treatment, they just want a fair shot at ranking on Elysium, same as anyone else. If left alone, there's nothing even close to resembling that. I am happy to elaborate further if need be, but was told that this was the place to post my thoughts on the topic, so here's my first go at it.

Edit: Within seconds of posting this topic, the elysium discord deletion of the zeth'kur channel was reverted, so I have deleted that portion of my post. This thread is now about the ranking situation, for incoming ZK players. All ZK rankers (ex-ZK rankers?) are completely boned by this transfer. No opportunity to freeze decay means a likely full 50% rank loss from the transfers. Raiders are harmed as well, as we never got a single free clear compared to the other servers, are already a week behind Elysium from release timing, and now many of us won't be able to raid this week, but that's just the nature of the xfers I suppose. Rankers being especially screwed over is a big problem that is likely to fall between the cracks, and is gamebreaking for those players. Since I was already making one post, I figured I'd highlight this issue at the same time.

How is this even a question? From the Terms of Use: [...] Perembula goes as far as to admit it's a bug, but then says that because MC is an allowable skill, that using it an an abusive manner is okay too? That's like saying jumping is allowed, so jumping to a place where you can safespot is allowed too. Power Infusion and Ignite are allowable skills to use, but people got banned on C'thun for abusing a bug in their interaction. There are many easy examples of how the GM's logic fails to hold up. Even if this wasn't specifically against the rules, which it is, the manner in which it is being used here should clearly merit a GM using their discretion to address the problem.

Because he was named by a 9 year old.

We haven't even tried for speed clears. ZK's minimal playerbase doesn't support the same activity as larger or established ones - we've been bleeding out for 4+ months. It's simply not our guild's top goal to clear as fast as humanly possible. That's a silly little game that private server players have made up for themselves to keep boring content slightly more interesting, but there's nothing about it that makes faster clears innately laudable or worthy of a goal. If you find joy in it, as do many others, good on you. But you see 82 minutes as a failure, and I see it as "why are you even looking at clear times, who cares?" If not for guild recruitment, I doubt I'd know what our realmplayer clear times were. But you're supporting my point. The top clear on Elysium is what, 35 minutes or so? Contrast that with 100+ hours a week of the grind, sustained, where even a single day off might mean you gain no progress or even downrank, while you're in perpetual competition with people on both factions, and it's impossible to follow your argument for why it shouldn't be properly rewarded. This is a Vanilla server, so...I guess yes? None of the content is difficult by itself. You get the reward for killing the bosses, which is laughably easy. Not doing it in 1 shot, or fast, or better than others - just killing the boss. And on ZK/Elysium - you know, the servers we're talking about here - there won't be any content for at least a year that isn't entirely trivial. With the content that comes afterwards only perhaps a tiny bit less so. The amount of time it takes to reach the reward is pretty much the only metric worth any salt on a vanilla private server. If you want to talk about actual difficulty, PvE is a 0 on a scale from 1-10, so PvP easily wins on that front as well. Either way, your argument can't hold water.

It'd be a shame if a person or two threatening to quit or delete their chars over lower respec costs were paid more attention than those of us talking about them in this thread already have, before dismissing them entirely and moving on. The betterment of the server for all as a whole comes long before the wants of a few individuals. Good riddance to anyone who'd try to hold themselves hostage over such a small change with the potential for such a meaningful benefit, on the principal of being "blizzlike", in the midst of numerous other non-blizzlike parts of our servers. Thank you, Elysium Team, for opening the discussion to the community. I don't understand the R14 change, but we're over a year from it mattering. The respec change matters now, and it's a welcome change for the better.