Fiers

No you haven't. No it won't. But for the sake of argument, let's address the situation. If the transfers did dramatically affect the economy on Elysium (and/or other servers), it'd mean bringing prices down temporarily, as pre-farmed goods flood the market, followed by a steady increase in prices until they are higher than they would have been without the new population. In the long run, a one time dump of items and materials is minimal in comparison to the now larger population's increase in its need for literally everything. Instead of whining about how unfair everything is, if you want to make money, stock up on the items that won't scale in spawn rate due to more ppl, buy stuff up when the prices drop, and resell after prices bounce back and increase. For the vast majority of players on any of the other servers, the inventory of stuff saved by ZK players is a good thing. If you're one of the few that stocked up on just a few things like storing tens of thousands of devilsaur leather in spite of knowing this day would come...well, that's on you, and is simply a laughably insufficient reason to penalize an entire server of players.

But if the transfers allow them to come back, shouldn't they be moved to the server they'd most likely want to be on? I understand that it's out of a valid concern for overwhelming Elysium - fears about server issues, queues, etc - but that's potentially harming a large number of players to solve a short term problem -- the exact same thing that caused ZK's creation in the first place. Is there any potential for an alternative, such as putting inactive players in limbo for an additional period of time, with a second final xfer date? So that the risk of overwhelming Elysium would be diminished, but so would the risk of stranding a large number of currently inactive players on a server they're not interested in playing on, the same thing that caused them to quit initially. Just sharing my thoughts. I don't mean for my comments on the topic to seem like a negative reaction. The news, and my feelings about it, are overwhelmingly positive as a whole. I just don't want my inactive friends to be irreparably be lost due to setting a new default. Thanks again for the news, and all the additional clarification/replies.

We're on the same timeline, released 6 days after Elysium. We've had 0 raid ID resets, and tiny PvP brackets. So no, we're not more progressed than them, in any way.

Thanks for the update! Glad to hear it's not as far away as I had expected! Why was Anathema made the default? I'm concerned mostly for guildies and friends who have stopped playing, but may want to return at a future date. Elysium is by far the closest to ZK, and where the vast majority of active players seem to be interested in moving. It is also where ex-players, who aren't actively keeping up with the news, will assume they are going based on prior information. So it is surprising that the initial plan to merge players into Elysium as the default was changed, and instead Anathema is now the default server. Can you explain any of the reasoning behind the change? Thanks again!

Honestly, I didn't. It sounds exactly like what someone on the purist side of things would say, when they suggest people would leave in droves or refuse to roll there in the first place if a single beneficial change was made.

Hypothetically let’s say Elysium gets shut down and two new servers open with the exact same scripts Elysium used, except one server has BGs and the PvP ranking system in place starting at launch, and the other waits 5.5 months for patch 1.4 to implement implement the PvP honor system, and waits another month to activate BGs (WSG and AV, of course - AB wouldn't be released for another 3 months). Which do you think would be more popular? Hopefully this should answer the question as to why the "Blizzlike" argument is nonsense. "Blizzlike" is a completely bogus term if it allows you to put any patches content anywhere in the timeline you want. If you can reconfigure the timeline and any part of it in any way you want while being Blizzlike, surely you can occasionally consider drawing inspiration from changes made after 1.12.2, to address significant ongoing issues within the Vanilla experience.

What? *I* don't have a problem affording the gold. As I would have thought was made abundantly clear in my first post in this thread, I'm not simply arguing for what would benefit me personally. I PvPed for 80-100 hours a week for 3 months, and already finished ranking. Of course I can farm 100g a week. In what way does that matter? My personal situation is irrelevant regarding potential server-wide or Elysium Project-wide changes. The issue is that high respec costs cause an issue for *casual* PvPers. I'm neither casual nor personally harmed by the respec costs. But they discourage many others from participating, which causes problems for others, both of which could be mitigated by modifying respec costs in some way. If a single non-blizzlike change is enough to make this a "FUN server", we're already one. That didn't stop people from rolling here, it's not what made people leave, and it's not what's preventing people from rolling here. But people *are* quitting because of PvP problems, and you've done nothing to explain why you think that's not a problem that should be addressed. Saying "BLIZZLIKE" in no way counters what I and others are saying here, regarding the problems that this thread was created to address. If that was the answer to every problem, this thread wouldn't exist.

The point is that having things in a state months or even years before they would be implemented is already unBlizz-like. They added dualspec in a future expansion to address the issue we're currently experiencing. They didn't even increase the cost of respecs from expansion to expansion, in spite of 50g in BC having a fraction of its value in Vanilla, and even moreso in future expansions. Finally, even if one forfeited the attempt to argue about whether it is blizzlike, or whether other non-blizzlike changes have been made, it is still the type of change that needs to be made. It makes no sense to accept that we're experiencing a major problem, but say that since Blizzard didn't address it prior to 2.0, nothing can ever be done about it.

It does not appear as though your RP gain for last week is incorrect. There were ~5500 people in the PvP pool last week on Elysium horde (5488th is the last visible on realmplayers). That'd mean bracket 3 is approximately standing 38-93. But that's close to the numbers you used. > Therefore, there are 50 positions in bracket 3. This week I was standing 64, therefore the calculation should be (87-64)*20+10000 = 10460. That's not how the RP calculation works, which is surprising to see from someone almost rank 12. I can't see what honor standing 38 had, but standing 35 had 401194 honor, so we'll assume #38 was around 380k. I can't tell what honor standing 93 was, but #82 was 222k, and #104 was 195k, so we'll assume #93 was about 209k. Those two numbers, and your own honor value, are what determine your RP within a bracket's min and max. Not your standing. To get 10255 RP using those approximations, that'd mean you had ~253k honor. Your info for last week isn't updated on realmplayers, so I can't confirm that, but #59 had 265k, so I feel pretty comfortable saying I'm probably within about 5k of your actual honor farmed, which means the RP you got is correct. Sorry. Unrelatedly, while on the topic of improper RP gain: Bracket 4 has only been calculated at .32% of the population, not .037%, as far back as my records go (to the start of ZK/Elysium). All brackets other than 1, 2, and 3 are using incorrect numbers AFAIK. But that's a separate issue from the one you're experiencing.

The server already has many custom changes. Notice how you're not queuing from Arathi and Ashenvale every time you want to play? The ability for some classes to farm, and what they can farm, was directly and significantly changed in an attempt to have our servers better off overall, in spite of intentionally being un-Blizzlike. Blizzlike is a general standard, not the single governing principle by which to judge any suggestion or proposal. It's not that respec costs are too high, or are unreasonable, by themselves - that would be governed by the "Blizzlike principle." The problem is that sticking to high respec costs feeds into an already large problem - the ability and enjoyability of PvP. The benefits, if any, of high respec costs pale in comparison to the benefits of encouraging more casual PvP. As is, the barrier is simply too high. Small PvP-centric changes aren't the end of the world. If they're convenient, with minimal downside, and no trivializing upside, it is fair to consider. I don't see how respec costs being lower or different for PvP would make the world feel in any way less like a world. I don't think that dual spec as we came to have it on retail, is the way to go (any time, any place, no cost, no downside). But there is a huge benefit to allowing for people to enjoy casual PvP or casual PvE without either breaking the bank on respec costs or having to perform as a build not designed at all for that type of content, which I believe dwarfs any potential downsides.

Editing this into my prior post in this thread as well, but for anyone who is just keeping up on the new posts, here we go: I'm a rank 13 NE hunter on Zeth'Kur. I finished ranking 5 weeks ago, stopping before my goal of 14 because it would have taken at least 7 more weeks to hit 14, in order for the 2 people ahead of me to clear the system and open up the lone BR1 bracket slot. I started managing the entire faction's bracket system around the end of February, and still do. I also helped the horde with their bracket system for several months. I say this to indicate that I speak on behalf of the vast majority of PvPers on our server, not just my personal view. As of this week, there have only ever been 25 people on ZK alliance who have made it to rank 11 or higher; 3 of them made it to their goal, 5 are still ranking, and 17 stopped short of their goal, almost exclusively because of our bracket sizes. We have only had 1 rank 14 on each faction, and are only likely to have 1 more on each faction prior to xfers. By comparison, there appear to be 24 alliance and 9 horde on Elysium who have hit rank 14. Elysium's pvp population (and consequently, their brackets) are 13x the size of Zeth'kurs, in spite of their server population only being about 6x ours. And for the vast majority of the server's history, our population was relatively higher - perhaps 3-5x smaller, not 6-7x, which makes that difference in PvP population and high ranked players even more staggering. Also, there hasn't been a single non-60 BG in months. To sum up what I've said so far - Elysium has ~6x ZK's population, but ~13x its PvP participation, and 17x its Rank 14s. PvP on Zeth'Kur is dead. There are significant periods of time where there's not even a single BG up. Our top 4 brackets combined amount to 12 slots this week, if we're not unlucky. Without counting those who have already quit recently, there are 15 remaining rankers at rank 10+. That means it is literally impossible for several of them to rank up, even if no one of lower ranks gets a higher standing than any of them. Basically, for those on ZK who still want to rank, they have to spend ~80 hours a week at rank 10, for some of them to gain 0% progress, for 6 weeks, all so that they can rank on Elysium after the xfers. For our lone BR1 last week, it was closer to 120 hours. And in a couple more weeks, we are likely to not even have a single BR1 slot. That means someone at rank 13 will have to spend several weeks farming for ~100 hours a week, for br2 points, just to not decay back to rank 12 prior to xfers. Given all that, it's not surprising that approximately 70% of the top 20 highest rankers on Alliance are considering quitting the grind. Even with xfers coming, which are supposed to be only 5 weeks and 1 day away at the most, it's hundreds of hours just to try to tread water waiting for xfers. That's insanity. To make sure that is properly emphasized: of the top 20 people who have been grinding for 3-4 months, approximately 75% of them are seriously considering quitting by Wednesday of THIS WEEK. Not simply because they can't spend the time, or it's too hard, or it's not fun, but because progress is unreasonable/unrealistic. To address the immediate isssues with ZK, something needs to be done. Not waiting for xfers, not in a month from now, but as soon as humanly possible. Below are some solutions for the current ZK situation, and some others for just general PvP improvements. Regardless of whether you follow these ideas or not, something needs to be done ASAP. Suggestions that could ease the current problems on ZK, while still benefiting other servers going forward: Allow players to freeze their current rank, so they don't have to grind out insane honor just to prevent decay, while waiting for xfers (this would also be beneficial for people going out of town). Add an immediate decay cost to it if necessary, so that it isn't abusable/used needlessly, but having the option would be massive. Drop the 15 HK requirement to be counted the PvP population. Drop it to some token number like 1-3. Allow players from levels 10-59 to queue for BGs from anywhere in the world, so that they actually queue up and get games regularly. Permanently set minimum bracket sizes. To even have to worry about dropping to 0 BR1 slots is unacceptable. It should not be possible to start PvPing with 4-6 bracket 1 slots, and have to give up before finishing after 4 months of constant high standing grinding, simply because there are 0 BR1 slots left (this is the actual situation some people are going to be facing on ZK). Consider lowering the weekly rank decay (and lower the points awarded each week as well). This would encourage far more people to PvP regularly, as a single week of little-to-no PvP wouldn't undo several weeks of effort. If balanced properly for a lower amount of decay, it should take the same amount of time to "fast-track" your way to rank 13-14, but it should be much easier to chip away at that progress over a longer stretch of time. General suggestions: Upgrade the PvP gear sooner. Release the PvP rep gear sooner. Consider adding periods of time where premading is limited to 5 people, or disabled entirely, so that interested players can freely play as pug vs pug at least occasionally. Have a GM dedicated to rapid response regarding PvP issues. When catching someone in the act is the only answer 90% of the time, having tickets take hours or even days doesn't work. If you need to catch them in the act to sanction players, you have to be available to witness the acts as they are occurring. Consider add a world PvP "BG weekend" to the rotation. WSG, AB, AV, and then world PvP - where kills or certain zones give bonus honor. Or make that the case during the week, when no BG weekend is active. Change respeccing - Add dual spec, a PvP only spec, reduce respec costs, or offer a second respec option that charges BG marks instead of gold (since they will only have a 24 hour duration now), so people can PvP more freely (or PvP and then go to PvE), without being an awful spec. It shouldn't take 100g to casually queue a couple BGs in the proper spec. This is not a comprehensive list of issues or solutions. Just what I could throw together off the top of my head. But please, do something. Many things. Make PvP fun, rewarding, and realistic. It should not be possible to spend anywhere close to 100 hours a week for 3 months grinding, and then hit an impassable wall due to people quitting the game or not queuing up. It makes no sense to do the same amount of PvP, get the same honor, putting in the same hours, and get decreasing progress, because a group of lvl 60s are raidlogging instead of getting 15 kills - there is no rational reason to have high end PvP progress linked to general player activity. What's something that you enjoy about our current PvP scene? Fighting premades as premades. Fighting pugs as pugs. Fast queue times. The periods of time where the PvP rewards at good. Something that you dislike? Having people screwed out of ranking, 3-4+ months into the grind, by circumstances entirely beyond a their control. Long queues. Roaming gank squads of PvPers desperate for honor with no chance of fighting back. Having no reason for pugs to try in a game, or bother to queue up at all, when they're facing premades. Going out of town for a few days, or having RL take priority briefly, ruining any chance of ranking at the high end. Cheaters going unpunished. The nonexistence of low level PvP. I fight (and usually kill) every horde I see on alts, as do others who are leveling, and still cannot possibly get enough kills to even be in the PvP population until at or near lvl 60. Tiny pvp brackets. PvP gear being outclassed by PvE gear for the majority of patches. 100g+ in respec each week if you want to do more than just PvP or just PvE. Watching most of my friends and co-rankers quit PvPing or the game entirely because *other* people quitting means they can't rank up. What would you like to see improved? Literally everything on the above list of issues. Thank you for the opportunity to post our concerns, and hopefully have some changes implemented to improve the pvp situation for all going forward.

PvP on Zeth'Kur is uniquely, completely, intolerably broken. It's also problematic in many other ways on all servers. I will edit this comment once I have a chance to write out a post in full. Full post: I'm a rank 13 NE hunter on Zeth'Kur. I finished ranking 5 weeks ago, stopping before my goal of 14 because it would have taken at least 7 more weeks to hit 14, in order for the 2 people ahead of me to clear the system and open up the lone BR1 bracket slot. I started managing the entire faction's bracket system around the end of February, and still do. I also helped the horde with their bracket system for several months. I say this to indicate that I speak on behalf of the vast majority of PvPers on our server, not just my personal view. As of this week, there have only ever been 25 people on ZK alliance who have made it to rank 11 or higher; 3 of them made it to their goal, 5 are still ranking, and 17 stopped short of their goal, almost exclusively because of our bracket sizes. We have only had 1 rank 14 on each faction, and are only likely to have 1 more on each faction prior to xfers. By comparison, there appear to be 24 alliance and 9 horde on Elysium who have hit rank 14. Elysium's pvp population (and consequently, their brackets) are 13x the size of Zeth'kurs, in spite of their server population only being about 6x ours. And for the vast majority of the server's history, our population was relatively higher - perhaps 3-5x smaller, not 6-7x, which makes that difference in PvP population and high ranked players even more staggering. Also, there hasn't been a single non-60 BG in months. To sum up what I've said so far - Elysium has ~6x ZK's population, but ~13x its PvP participation, and 17x its Rank 14s. PvP on Zeth'Kur is dead. There are significant periods of time where there's not even a single BG up. Our top 4 brackets combined amount to 12 slots this week, if we're not unlucky. Without counting those who have already quit recently, there are 15 remaining rankers at rank 10+. That means it is literally impossible for several of them to rank up, even if no one of lower ranks gets a higher standing than any of them. Basically, for those on ZK who still want to rank, they have to spend ~80 hours a week at rank 10, for some of them to gain 0% progress, for 6 weeks, all so that they can rank on Elysium after the xfers. For our lone BR1 last week, it was closer to 120 hours. And in a couple more weeks, we are likely to not even have a single BR1 slot. That means someone at rank 13 will have to spend several weeks farming for ~100 hours a week, for br2 points, just to not decay back to rank 12 prior to xfers. Given all that, it's not surprising that approximately 70% of the top 20 highest rankers on Alliance are considering quitting the grind. Even with xfers coming, which are supposed to be only 5 weeks and 1 day away at the most, it's hundreds of hours just to try to tread water waiting for xfers. That's insanity. To make sure that is properly emphasized: of the top 20 people who have been grinding for 3-4 months, approximately 75% of them are seriously considering quitting by Wednesday of THIS WEEK. Not simply because they can't spend the time, or it's too hard, or it's not fun, but because progress is unreasonable/unrealistic. To address the immediate isssues with ZK, something needs to be done. Not waiting for xfers, not in a month from now, but as soon as humanly possible. Below are some solutions for the current ZK situation, and some others for just general PvP improvements. Regardless of whether you follow these ideas or not, something needs to be done ASAP. Suggestions that could ease the current problems on ZK, while still benefiting other servers going forward: Allow players to freeze their current rank, so they don't have to grind out insane honor just to prevent decay, while waiting for xfers (this would also be beneficial for people going out of town). Add an immediate decay cost to it if necessary, so that it isn't abusable/used needlessly, but having the option would be massive. Drop the 15 HK requirement to be counted the PvP population. Drop it to some token number like 1-3. Allow players from levels 10-59 to queue for BGs from anywhere in the world, so that they actually queue up and get games regularly. Permanently set minimum bracket sizes. To even have to worry about dropping to 0 BR1 slots is unacceptable. It should not be possible to start PvPing with 4-6 bracket 1 slots, and have to give up before finishing after 4 months of constant high standing grinding, simply because there are 0 BR1 slots left (this is the actual situation some people are going to be facing on ZK). Consider lowering the weekly rank decay (and lower the points awarded each week as well). This would encourage far more people to PvP regularly, as a single week of little-to-no PvP wouldn't undo several weeks of effort. If balanced properly for a lower amount of decay, it should take the same amount of time to "fast-track" your way to rank 13-14, but it should be much easier to chip away at that progress over a longer stretch of time. General suggestions: Upgrade the PvP gear sooner. Release the PvP rep gear sooner. Consider adding periods of time where premading is limited to 5 people, or disabled entirely, so that interested players can freely play as pug vs pug at least occasionally. Have a GM dedicated to rapid response regarding PvP issues. When catching someone in the act is the only answer 90% of the time, having tickets take hours or even days doesn't work. If you need to catch them in the act to sanction players, you have to be available to witness the acts as they are occurring. Consider add a world PvP "BG weekend" to the rotation. WSG, AB, AV, and then world PvP - where kills or certain zones give bonus honor. Or make that the case during the week, when no BG weekend is active. Change respeccing - Add dual spec, a PvP only spec, reduce respec costs, or offer a second respec option that charges BG marks instead of gold (since they will only have a 24 hour duration now), so people can PvP more freely (or PvP and then go to PvE), without being an awful spec. It shouldn't take 100g to casually queue a couple BGs in the proper spec. This is not a comprehensive list of issues or solutions. Just what I could throw together off the top of my head. But please, do something. Many things. Make PvP fun, rewarding, and realistic. It should not be possible to spend anywhere close to 100 hours a week for 3 months grinding, and then hit an impassable wall due to people quitting the game or not queuing up. It makes no sense to do the same amount of PvP, get the same honor, putting in the same hours, and get decreasing progress, because a group of lvl 60s are raidlogging instead of getting 15 kills - there is no rational reason to have high end PvP progress linked to general player activity. What's something that you enjoy about our current PvP scene? Fighting premades as premades. Fighting pugs as pugs. Fast queue times. The periods of time where the PvP rewards at good. Something that you dislike? Having people screwed out of ranking, 3-4+ months into the grind, by circumstances entirely beyond a their control. Long queues. Roaming gank squads of PvPers desperate for honor with no chance of fighting back. Having no reason for pugs to try in a game, or bother to queue up at all, when they're facing premades. Going out of town for a few days, or having RL take priority briefly, ruining any chance of ranking at the high end. Cheaters going unpunished. The nonexistence of low level PvP. I fight (and usually kill) every horde I see on alts, as do others who are leveling, and still cannot possibly get enough kills to even be in the PvP population until at or near lvl 60. Tiny pvp brackets. PvP gear being outclassed by PvE gear for the majority of patches. 100g+ in respec each week if you want to do more than just PvP or just PvE. Watching most of my friends and co-rankers quit PvPing or the game entirely because *other* people quitting means they can't rank up. What would you like to see improved? Literally everything on the above list of issues. Thank you for the opportunity to post our concerns, and hopefully have some changes implemented to improve the pvp situation for all going forward.

How will the xfers/merge handle PvP brackets, and how long will xfers be open before the automatic merge into Elysium? I know you said more info will be coming on the 24th, so I can certainly wait til then for an answer, but I sincerely hope there's a plan in place to address that.

More info than I expected, there's enough there to help us get a decent idea of what's in store and when, and you gave us specific date for getting more info and more specificity (the 24th). That's massive progress compared to the last time we got information. Thank you. Quoting the ZK discord channel conversation that followed this thread's creation where I asked for clarification, in case it would be helpful for others to see:

You do. It just doesn't update on your honor tab til you inspect yourself or refresh your UI.

It's confusing to put it up to a poll, and then when there's roughly a 50-50 split after only 3-4 hours later, go through with the change anyway. I don't get it. That said, hopefully people enjoy the event, regardless of what time it occurs.

While I overlooked that specific aspect of the change between this post and the previous one, it changes nothing from my perspective. As stated in my post, there's no valid reason to delay further by any amount, be it days or hours. People have scheduled around the current plan, and having it mid-week will always mean many will miss out on it. Changing the timing only 1-2 days beforehand, so more people may be able to see it, is unacceptable to those who have already made their plans. If you want to poll anyone about this, the only people who deserve to have a say are the people in guilds that will have their scepters completed before the delayed time. If random person #517 wants to delay the release so they can experience it, their opinion simply doesn't matter - that individual's want shouldn't trump the plans and desires of the people who actually put in the time and effort to open the gates. Back on retail 12 years ago, I was in the guild on my server that opened the gates. I can't imagine how irate we would have been if, only a day or two before we finished, we were told that our schedule was out the window, so other people could experience the event. Fuck everything about that. You limited it to 6 guilds. You set the timeline. You changed the questline. Enough changes. People made decisions based on the information you released. Some didn't bother trying to complete the quest. Others sacrificed to make it in time, to get the honor of hitting the gong and getting the rewards. It is past time to change more things. This shouldn't even be up for discussion. Enough messing around with AQ already. Stick to the plan, and release the content as soon as any guild has finished the questline.

People have been waiting for AQ forever. The only reason to delay it is if it's not ready. Release it as soon as possible. Don't wait just to let more people see it. The time for that would have been before you released the scepter quest, and guilds already put in the time and effort to unlock it on Wednesday, and PLANNED AROUND THAT. Let the players open the gates as planned. Don't delay it artificially. ---------------------- Edited (to reply to Developer Staden, copied from my reply lower in the thread): While I overlooked that specific aspect of the change between this post and the previous one, it changes nothing from my perspective. As stated in my post, there's no valid reason to delay further by any amount, be it days or hours. People have scheduled around the current plan, and having it mid-week will always mean many will miss out on it. Changing the timing only 1-2 days beforehand, so more people may be able to see it, is unacceptable to those who have already made their plans. If you want to poll anyone about this, the only people who deserve to have a say are the people in guilds that will have their scepters completed before the delayed time. If random person #517 wants to delay the release so they can experience it, their opinion simply doesn't matter - that individual's want shouldn't trump the plans and desires of the people who actually put in the time and effort to open the gates. Back on retail 12 years ago, I was in the guild on my server that opened the gates. I can't imagine how irate we would have been if, only a day or two before we finished, we were told that our schedule was out the window, so other people could experience the event. Fuck everything about that. You limited it to 6 guilds. You set the timeline. You changed the questline. Enough changes. People made decisions based on the information you released. Some didn't bother trying to complete the quest. Others sacrificed to make it in time, to get the honor of hitting the gong and getting the rewards. It is past time to change more things. This shouldn't even be up for discussion. Enough messing around with AQ already. Stick to the plan, and release the content as soon as any guild has finished the questline.

Just get it started already. No reason to delay it further. If the content isn't ready, say so. Otherwise, let players access it as soon as they have earned the right. Which is shortly after maintenance. Don't insult the work they've put in to open the gates ASAP by delaying it so some extra people can bear witness. Screw that.

Anathema's population decreased when ZK came out because *the players didn't want to be on Anathema*. If people wanted to play on a server that's at AQ instead of MC, and a year+ ahead of ZK, they would have rolled on one. 68% voted for a merge in a poll *where no alternative was given.* A PROPER poll should be done on both Zeth'kur and on Elysium, to discover what options people on both servers want/prefer. For example, I'd much prefer xfers, but only if enough people show interest. If polls show it won't work, then it's not viable. Or if most Elysium players don't want to merge, but many would be happy to transfer, then that's relevant too. The community hasn't spoken in your post. You want them to listen to *you*, not the community.

Did not see this coming.

Your formula is nonsense. But sure, let's do the math. 2 million honor, > 2k honor per game = < 1000 games. 1000 games = 1000 turn ins. 20 silver per turn in, * 1000 turn ins = 200g 1000 games at 6 mins per game = 100 hours 200g in 100 hours = 2g/hour. 2g/hour. INSANE AMOUNTS OF GOLD.

To be clear, there has never been any such agreement with anyone in any of our premades. If someone chooses to not fight back against us, they do it without our input.

:(

I PMed my attempt to describe the PvP situation on Zeth'kur to a few people this weekend, hoping someone would pay attention, but it clearly has not had the desired result if @Shenna thinks that there has been "no negative influence on pvp", so I will repost it here. I honestly cannot believe the official stance is to give such a strong dismissal of the concerns of every single ranking player. Anyway, here goes: