doodoobrown

Hopefully this thread doesn't get locked without an official response like the first, and still there's plenty of half-baked "not blizzlike" arguments 4 months later. The updated sets are necessary to both retain interest in PvP among more casual players and give adequate rewards for the time investment put forth toward the gear. No one would raid MC weekly if there was no boss drops, just how no one would hit an honor quota if there was no worthwhile reward. Not everyone is capable of reaching r11 and higher and currently there is no incentive to reach r10, thus causing the majority of people who frequent battlegrounds to be honor min/maxing, afk botting, or completely obsessed with PvP. For those who say the gear is overpowered: it isn't. There's a gear comparison that has been linked numerous times revealing that t2 and BWL offset pieces are roughly on par or better than r13 sets in PvE and when AQ40 is released the PvP gear (which takes months to obtain) will be obsolete by t2.5 class sets. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s9CLO31HDTjs2qPAn2FILB1dulLm1kup3G5Ih-Wrorg/edit

I also did the rank grind on Nostalrius to r13 and the time investment was the same. Just because you did one grind doesn't mean you've done them all and I see no reason to take you on word. On Nostalrius we had 15 BR1 spots by the end of the ZG patch (not sure when you ranked) while ZK had only one, so solopushers could put much more pressure on the system as a whole. The ZK grind was more competitive while Nostalrius had people focus more on quotas. This subject is moot by now the staff acknowledged the issue and didn't do anything about and the ZK rankers grinded 3 days straight to not decay. I doubt most would do it in their position.

So the loss of 3 weeks because of neglect is permissible because the service is free? It's a large time investment and it should be respected at the very least. What does the service being free have to do with anything, would you rather they didn't care at all about anything? Why have a staff or GM response team at all if Elysium didn't care about the quality of their work?

Wtf is your issue, do you just want to call each other names and talk about personal experience? I have facts, so I present them, where are yours?

What? Who said anything about not doing BWL, I intend on doing it. The whole purpose of this thread is to make PvP more worthwhile, so the server doesn't fill up with raidloggers and every BG isn't the same coterie of tryhards grinding 24/7. Would be nice to have more PvP activity in general, but as it stands most people appear to be content with raidlogging.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd back to ad hominems. 12th time: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s9CLO31HDTjs2qPAn2FILB1dulLm1kup3G5Ih-Wrorg/edit I don't feel that the pre-update set is weaker, it is. I know that the updated set is on par or weaker than BWL BiS, as far as PvE is concerned. It's all there in the document, just look it over. What personal experience did you have that makes it so gear that takes months to farm is topped by gear you can get in a few hours once or twice a week in BWL? Have I said anything unreasonable, has my math been off? You gotta be more specific.

So waiting until Naxx to use gear that performs about as well at BWL gear is a reasonable expectation? Even on Nost most r13 mages and warlocks just used BWL gear in BGs because of the extra crit %. Also, this is less than 1% of the population we're discussing here, it's not going to affect gameplay as much as you make it out to be. The whole purpose of this thread is to make PvP worthwhile, pointing at the timeline doesn't really help people come up with solutions to existing problems.

That's exactly our point. We're not asking for it to be t3 quality, just upgraded so it's not completely eclipsed by BWL gear. Are you an Anathema player? If so, this doesn't really apply to you since you already have the upgraded PvP faction gear. On Ely/ZK the pre-update PvP sets are overall on par with pre-buff t1, so when t1 is updated and t2 is released the gear will be rendered absolutely useless.

11th time: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s9CLO31HDTjs2qPAn2FILB1dulLm1kup3G5Ih-Wrorg/edit It's nowhere near as strong as t3 even in its fully updated state. In fact it's not even up to AQ40 standards. Also, r14 gear is being updated on BWL release regardless of this thread. Please, read previous posts before replying.

How many times have we addressed this very same argument? I'm guessing the better part of 5 or 6 times. The timeline is not blizzlike. At all. The PvE gear tier is being updated way before it was on retail, PvP reputation vendors are being added far sooner than they were on retail, we have cross faction auction houses in 1.3, battlemasters in 1.3, AB before AV, and 1.12.1 talents. This argument is not valid on the premise of not blizzlike being a reason to reject a change being made to the game. Also, stop the ad hominems, this thread is to benefit PvP as a whole by giving everyone incentive to queue, only people queueing right now are the people who love PvP and are willing to grind for trash gear. Here's the 10th time we're linking this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s9CLO31HDTjs2qPAn2FILB1dulLm1kup3G5Ih-Wrorg/edit The biggest difference between the updated PvP gear and BWL BiS is 38 AP and 1.4% crit for the hunter set. For the most part the PvE BiS slightly outperforms the updated PvP gear. And to be absolutely clear: we do not expect this change to be made on 1.6 release. Waiting for progression in BWL to finish is a perfectly reasonable request.

@quasexort They're updating t1 in 1.4, so it stands to follow that t2 will be updated on release, otherwise no one would use it.

You have 1.12.1 talents in 1.3, updated t1 in 1.4, you get updated t2 on BWL release, AV in 1.5, and WSG reputation vendor in 1.6. Can we stop assuming blizzlike is in any way this server's primary intention? Then again this argument will keep cropping up regardless of what anyone says, like it has for the past 5 pages.

It was ironic, I was commenting on how the number of people in group doesn't affect item quality in PvP, all the exalted PvP reputation gear is level 65 regardless of the number of people involved in the BG. And this is not about reputation vendors, this is about faction gear as it always has been from the start. AV is getting released before BWL, if you have a problem with that open up a separate thread. Also, Nost's itemization was made clear until people spoke up about how there's no point in PvPing. What don't you understand? If the gear doesn't get updated in 1.6 or 1.7 then all you will get is premades because only dedicated pvpers would be willing to invest the time for gear that is complete trash, if it is then you will see MANY more pugs because people will actually care about their rank since the gear is worth their time. Look at the gear comparison, please, so we stop getting off-topic.

Haestingas, what is your point? This thread isn't about AV loot and if you want to talk about the updated PvP gear then check my comparison on google docs. Also, AV does not = Naxx because two pieces of gear are itemized well. TUF+Lobotomizer are worse than the rag weapons and the exalted faction items from WSG and AB are the same level as the AV exalted gear, so we're getting the same quality for 10-15 man. Why is every single one of your arguments just senseless raging, insults, and picking out some specific pieces of pvp gear that work well in pve and acting like it's a huge issue? The items don't make a significant difference and we're not asking for the update immediately on BWL release. Do you just want to argue for fun? Like we can make up shit to banter about in another thread. If you're going to accuse us of cherrypicking, please give examples. The last post I went through the guy's entire argument rather than captioning a single paragraph and framing it out of context. I have examples of you cherrypicking, however, like how you said the updated r8 legs+chest are BiS for fury warriors and that's why you thought the entire pvp update is wrong because of two pieces for one poorly itemized class being slightly better than muh BWL gear.

The r13+r14 gear is already in the game and the weapons are getting updated during 1.6 regardless of this thread. I made a list comparing the stats of updated r13 gear with updated t2 (which you're getting on BWL release, that's not blizzlike btw). In PvE the upgraded PvP gear either is even with BWL BiS or is a slight downgrade. The exception is the hunter pvp gear which has 38 more AP and 1.4% more crit. AQ40 gear out-performs updated r13 substantially in every single category. Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s9CLO31HDTjs2qPAn2FILB1dulLm1kup3G5Ih-Wrorg/edit Those "Naxx quality weapons" are happening regardless of this thread, check the timeline. Also they're closer to AQ40 quality or drops from Chromaggus/Nefarian. Point is: you'll still use Crul, Maladeth, and Chromatic Sword in PvE and do about as much damage as people using r14 weapons, which less than 1% of the population will have anyway. Also, this only applies to rogues/warriors right now, casters have next to no reason to go for r14. Competing with players is more challenging than beating a boss that's been out for over 12 years, and not only that it's far more time consuming. Getting rewarded for r12+ is certainly not getting free gear and this affects so few people I can't possibly see why you would be against giving these few dedicated people their due. Also, why cite the amount of people in WSG/AB versus MC/BWL, what does it prove? I can just as easily say: AV = 40 man MC/BWL/AQ40/Naxx = 40 man Oh I see, I guess we should get Naxx quality loot now.