QQsya

Foreword: The previous thread a month and a half or so ago generated a lot of views and controversy, with over 2.5k views and 150 replies and many people giving their opinions. It was then locked, with a post from a staff member thanking everyone for their input and promising to look into it. With 1.7 on the horizon, many people I talk to and pvp with(and against) regularly are wondering if it's indeed been looked in to or if a decision has been reached. I hope I can be excused for re-creating a locked topic, but this is an issue that's close to boiling over among rankers. Basically, the pvp rank reward items as they currently are are not very good. They are similar in power and stats to updated tier 1 items. Now that Blackwing Lair has released and tier 2 items are available, more and more people are starting to question the wisdom and practicality of putting in the huge amount of time required to get to rank 13 or rank 14, when one lucky BWL run could get you better items for most slots while only taking a few hours instead of a few months. Elysium staff have already shown a willingness to make non "blizz-exact" changes in the name of balance and playability. The update to rank 14 weapons in 1.6 was blizzlike, and shows that even back then Blizzard was aware that there was a power gap between then-current PVE items and PVP items, but that they were simply too slow to act on it in the case of the armor. The updated items are quite similar in stats and power to tier 2 items or 1.6 BiS, but having players who've already ranked be given tier 2 near-equivalent gear this early in BWL progression would give them an unfair advantage. Therefore I suggest to wait until 1.7, with the release of Zul'gurub, as was done on Nostalrius. According to the currently posted timeline, this will be in October, which should give even the slowest guilds plenty of time in BWL, before giving rankers their BWL-equivalent items. Stat comparison between updated rank 7/8/10("blue"), rank 12/13("epic") pvp armor, and tier 2/1.6 BiS items: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s9CLO31HDTjs2qPAn2FILB1dulLm1kup3G5Ih-Wrorg/

The rank 14 weapons have already been updated and aren't a part of the subject of this thread, so yes, I only mean items like tier pieces, or other armor items.

Yeah of course, I'm not saying that's a regular or even common occurrence, that's why I said "lucky". But the fact remains that it's possible, and in any one raid you're pretty likely to get at least one item until there's only a few left that you need. If you get one item you need per week over about 3 months, you'll be fully geared out in about the same timespan it'd take you to finish ranking, and you'd have better gear than if you'd ranked. So many people are starting to wonder what the point even is.

can we just add back in the WHARGHRARBRARGHARBL sound effect for blood fury and berserking? it's blizzlike :^)

giving this a bump since I havent heard anything more about it

Those aren't women, those are Germans.

I took a leak, it was a long 45 seconds.

Finally some worthwhile content, hype.

when it died?

I mean to say, I'm curious how it works too

In actual retail they weren't updated until Naxx. But they kind of suck, most of them are barely on par with MC gear and will only get worse as time goes on until there's no point in ranking anymore unless you push all the way to the top. On old Nost, many "non-rankers" would queue just for a few weeks just to get 2 or 4 pieces of the set for the set bonuses and because of that Nost always had a very active PVP community. The updated blues also already exist on Anathema. This is probably the one non-blizzlike change that Nost made to pvp that actually worked out for the better. EDIT: It didn't occur to me at the time of writing this post, but later in this thread I was made to realize that having BWL equivalent gear on BWL launch would indeed be an unfair advantage in initial progression. Instead, we should wait until a month or two after 1.6, or even until ZG release, and then update the gear. I will edit this into the OP, but not into the title, in order to avoid breaking the URL and any old links to this thread. Thank you for reading.

You absolutely can get full BWL gear by doing BWL, which absolutely does take no more than a few hours a week outside initial progression. And this may come as a shock to you but most of us plan on doing BWL too. We just want people to log in for more than two hours a week once they've got a stock of consumables farmed up and nothing else to do. If all I wanted was for my own gear to be updated, I'd just go play my mage on Anathema who already has the updated PvP gear. I even mentioned that earlier in the thread, but I guess reading the whole thread before replying is too hard, otherwise we wouldn't be addressing the same asinine arguments over and over again.

I don't think that word means what you think it means, so here: Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is now usually understood as a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2] from the first line of wikipedia Now tell me, how does linking substantiated mathematical proof fit that definition? And how does saying "lol ur dum u jus wnt gerea cuz u bad xD" not fit that definition?

If they update T1 in 1.4/1.5 and don't update T2 in 1.6 then there won't even be a point in doing BWL because updated T1 is better in most cases than pre-update T2. So if that's the plan then the whole timeline is even more nonsensical than I originally thought.

That is exactly what we are arguing for. Maybe I should edit the thread title to reflect that? It didn't occur to me at first, but earlier in the thread I was made to realize that having BWL equivalent gear on BWL launch would indeed be a bit of an unfair advantage, so we should allow a few weeks or even a month or two for BWL progression before rolling out the update. Possibly even update it in 1.7, the ZG patch. Edit: Edited, please see the new OP.

Nice meme, but you can't just act like le cool dismissive edgy man(haha deal with it kiddo im much older and cooler than u :^^^^) also ur opinion is dumb*blows smoke in ur face*) while being completely wrong and addressing zero of anyone's points. I'm not warping my argument at all, my argument remains the same as it was in the OP. Literally just look at the google doc that's been linked about 8 times now. Here, I'll link it a 9th time: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s9CLO31HDTjs2qPAn2FILB1dulLm1kup3G5Ih-Wrorg/ Several PvE items are also "better than [they] were at certain patches in Vanilla." We have 1.10 BRE in 1.3. If your argument is "it's not blizzlike" then neither is having 1.12 talents and 1.10 Rag weapons in 1.3, or having nerfed gray drops from DME lashers, or having AB out before AV. The timeline is already not Blizzlike. If your argument is "it will make PvE too easy" then : 1. PvE is already trivially easy except for a few select encounters; 2. The armor is on par with the BiS armor available in 1.6. And finally, if your argument is "WoW is PvE game, deal with it" then go play on Darrowshire and let PvPers discuss PvP. You'll still be able to raid log MC and BWL once a week and get gear that's around 95% to 105% (depends on your class/spec) as good as the PvP pieces. No one is going to take away your safe space, so relax.

This is blatantly wrong, please review the evidence to the contrary that has been posted multiple times already. T3 is most certainly better than even the updated R13 set and the updated R13 is on par with T2, as has already been proven. >I'll be quite pleased to see the best geared people on the server being the players with the most boss kills That's how it was even on Nost with the early PvP update. Outside of their ranker setpieces and/or rep gear, PvP-only guys were still running around in like, sublime bracers and green ZG necklaces, lol. The absolute highest tier of highly geared players will be the ones who have both the high iLvL PvE and ranker PvP items and can mix and match them at will, though. Again, same as Nost and retail. >Vanilla was a game designed around PVE and acquiring gear almost exclusively from raids Vanilla was a game designed around social interaction and cooperating with a group in order to achieve a goal. >If you do this you will have Naxx quality weapons at the same time people raiding Naxx can acquire them. You mean like the way people killing Ragnaros can get Naxx quality weapons right now in 1.3? Having 1.10 BRE is an insane advantage when most of your opponents are running around with 2.8k HP and 40 spellpower wearing the equivalent of pre-buff T1 or dungeon blues. >Just because you jumped around WSG/AB for 20 hours a day for 2 months doesn't mean that in 2 years you should be given weapons that are better than AQ40/Naxx content for free I'd hardly call 1,240 man-hours "for free". For example, if you spent that amount of time working at McDonalds and making the US federal minimum wage, you'd have made about $9,300 before taxes. >and there were maybe 1 or 2 people that had R14 by the time BWL released. On Zeth there are 4 people with R14 weapons, which is actually far fewer than the amount of people with BRE/spinal reaper, and I imagine the ratios are similar on Elysium as well. However, this is an irrelevant argument anyway because the weapons get updated in 1.6, as is blizzlike. The focus of this thread is only the armor pieces and not the weapons. Sorry for the arrow quotes but it's much easier than typing [.quote][/quote] every time when I want to go through a post line-by-line.

We're veering off topic. Why is it so unacceptable that a few BiS PVE items come from PVP? There are many more BiS PVP items that come from PVE, that's how the game works in vanilla. We're not yet at the point where they built a big wall between PVE and PVP and made them fast and separate. If it weren't for edgemaster's and the hit on the r12 pants , dps warriors would be wearing the devilsaur set far, far into BWL. Is that better, they should wear level 55 BoE blues instead? Again I want to direct people here, a detailed mathematical breakdown of stat totals on the updated r10, updated r13, and 1.6 BiS gear for every class. You'll find that they are highly comparable. The biggest difference is in the hunter gear, where the r13 set has a whopping 38 attack power and ~1.4% crit advantage over the PVE BiS gear. Very OP, wow. I'm so sure hunters doing 15 more dps is gonna absolutely break every encounter and make PvE even more trivial than it already is. :rolleyes:

The actual range isn't anywhere remotely close to the range stated on the tooltip, it only works if your target is within the render distance of your character. Isn't there any way to make it more blizzlike?

Not to mention the r14 weapons already get updated in 1.6. @ other guy And exactly what about what you've quoted there is inconsistent? Do you know what that word even means? Everything you've said is inconsistent, your reasoning makes no sense to anyone but yourself, you complain about being insulted while your own argumentation is nothing but insults, and you show a startling and profound ignorance of both PvE and PvP. Just stop posting before you make yourself look even dumber (not possible).

Also: LOL i actually have a life unlike u nerds also ur shit, SHIT!!!!1 PS I don't live in my mom's basement, I live in the attic :^)

>I don't hate rankers at all, I dislike however seeing nothing but boring premades steamrolling each BG in 2 minute Premade crying is not the point of this thread. >Also I wouldn't mathematically add stamina into a PvE gear equation Our entire point. Stam aside the gear is more or less equal in terms of DPS stats. >It takes months to CLEAR and get the gear It takes months to get to r14. With some luck on the drop tables you could probably get full t1 AND t2 in the time it takes to get r14 if your guild isn't completely terrible. >opposed to instantly upgrading PvP gear that was only earned one time. What about the people who rank after the update? You realize that's exactly what happened in retail anyway right? People who had already ranked and gotten the epic set had it updated when the update was released. And guess what, people who already have the r14 weapons will have them upgraded automagically when BWL releases and the weapons are updated. I'm starting to think you actually agree with me and are just playing devil's advocate by trying to show how retarded and full of logical fallacies and internal inconsistencies the anti-update crowd is. No one can unironically be this dense.

Get bored of farming gear/gold, farm tears instead. Good thread, 5/5.

I can confirm as a priest, it's fairly easy to reproduce this bug to the point where I've unintentionally done it several times. If you MC a player and make them attack a hostile target, they will usually start spamming random skills/cooldowns (this part is WAD), but then even after the MC effect ends, they will often continue attacking their target and still not have control over their character's movement. It also sometimes bugs out even if the MC effect is ended prematurely by something else, eg tremor totem, or having your cast interrupted by kick/CS/pummel.