antwan

Yea, I will test it, but I guess I'll have to clip, I just can't wrap my head around clipping while using IAOTH, or the math behind but since it affects skills too I guess it evens out. So just to verify, because I'm still slightly confused, to effectively clip I just spam aimed shot or multi shot whenever the cool down is up right? Another interesting thing, which noone seems to have looked into yet, is how does weapon skill affect crit rating? According to this: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Weapon_skill a Blizz GM uses +4 skill as an example, he states that your hit chance will be .8% and your crit chance will be .8% as well. Essentially saying the same formula that determines hit also applies to crit. So if +11 is giving you 3.6% hit, according to that information (not confirmed if working same on server) it should also give you 3.6% crit Be interesting to see if anyone can find it within the source code

Thanks for the quick response, I am on Elysium, so we are pre-av patch still. Barborous blade came out from DM about 2 weeks ago. So yea, I'll link you to my char to give you an idea of my gear: https://legacy-logs.com/Vanilla/Armory/Elysium/Dunkedon/0 For my 9% hit (without surefooted) I'll list my gear out for BlackCrow: 1% from t1 shoulders, 1% BC, 3% warmonger, 2% devilsaur, 1% tarnished elven ring, and +2 from marksman bands (.8% hit from 302 wep skill), leaves me with 8% hit, and a hit cap of 8.2%; .2% chance to miss. With this setup I have roughly 1084 AP, and 19.44% crit self buffed (not at home but numbers are very close) I've also run with surefooted to keep the barb blade, however if you do some math on IATOH procs, (the lowest auto's i fired on a fight was 19), if you do some math you'll find you have a 62% chance of it proccing, which as I mentioned earlier, gives you 2 additional auto's within that 12 second period, so to me, getting the 5% IAOTH is a must. So depending on how much you put into surefooted determines how many points into IAOTH. In regards to the arcanite rifle, I've run with surefooted and stacked crit, getting up to 21.44% unbuffed, and around 1100 AP. The setup I am looking to run on my next raid will be the following: Marksman bands +2; dwarf racial +5, arc rifle +4; giving me 11 wep skill and equating to a 5.4% hit cap. I then would run with 2 tarnished elven rings, 2% from devilsaur, and 1% from shoulders (will accept a .4% miss chance) My AP will be roughly 1186 self buffed in this spec, with 20.44% crit, with 5 points in IAOTH. In regards to post AV, yea, it'll all change, I'll be in line to get rhok quickly, and also I'll be sure to grab AV bow / don julio's, quiver, plus with change to tier pieces 2% hit from t1 gloves (already have) and 1% from t2 legs (already have). Short of getting accuria I'll be going back into surefooted, but in the meantime while I have an opportunity to use the gun, I'm trying to take advantage of it. Thanks for the conversation either way, always fun to theorycraft

I've seen your posts before and would love more insight into this, I was under the impression clipping was disregarding allowing autoshots to go off if your aimed shot or MS is off cooldown, so essentially you spam your skills on CD, am I wrong in this regard? With this in mind, and in regards to arcanite rifle, as a dwarf, (pre rhok), with marksman this gives +11, which is my math is correct, means you only need to come up with 5.4% hit from gear. ( 5 - (-4 * 0.1) = 5.4 ) I've compared these two extensively, and basically, I can get 1170 AP self buffed(arcanite rifle), vs 1084 (black crow), as well as 20.44% chance to crit (rifle) vs 19.44 (black crow). With that much of a difference, and taking into consideration improved aspect of the hawk, wouldn't arcanite yield better results? With improved aspect of hawk proc, blackcrow could squeeze out 2 additional auto's (3.2 x .30 = 0.96; 3.2 - 0.96 = 2.24; 12 / 2.24 ( 5.35 auto's squeezed out during an IATOH proc; disregarding skills obviously), whereas arcanite rifle would yield similar results 3.0 x .30 = .9; 3.0-.9 = 2.1; 12 / 2.1 ( 5.71 auto's squeezed out). Keep in mind, I believe IATOH also affects skills. I also understand that the quiver, and things of that nature is going to bring your real auto attack speed down anyways, so these numbers are kind of moot. I guess it just comes down to my understanding of clipping. With the arcanite rifle I would assume you would spam your skills on cooldown, whereas with blackcrow you would allow the autos to go off before using your cooldowns, am I incorrect? If that's the case, you would miss at least one auto from when you go from aimed -> MS; however wouldn't you get that back during the cooldown period? I've run alot of scenarios and I'm having a hard time finding the optimum setup. I'm trying to utilize IAOTH as I think the DPS loss without it is rather huge, and it's quite hard to get the hit with blackcrow unless you sacrifice barb blade for warmonger. Anyways, appreciate any response you can provide

Quote wasn't working properly, user error! Please see post below. My apologies