Undertanker

Shit, I'd give them 50 right now if I could move from Alli to Horde since only horde guilds on Anathema raid my available times. Raiding seems more fun than transmuting Essence of Undeath to Water every 24 hours then logging out.

I don't see where this change was put in. Where are you getting this from? Your respec cost showing as only 25g when it was 50g in the past? There should be respec cost deterioration. The longer you go without respeccing the cheaper it gets.

Updated Quel with 50% uptime and adjusted ranking for it. This puts it barely behind Sickle of Unyielding Strength for an Orc. Seems legit.

I'll update to 50% uptime in a bit. @ work atm.

I'm honestly just tired to beating a dead horse and having to chase the conversation between 3 threads. Especially when your math and mine still yield the same results, that 700 / 750 AP Ironfoe < Crul. 1k Ironfoe > Crul in terms of threat. In short keep both weapons if you got them, use Ironfoe world buffed, use Crul if you die.

If you have 1k AP that is the breaking point of when Ironfoe becomes better than Crul prior to any weapon skill considerations (which gives about an 8% benefit to tanks) for threat specific conversations. This does not account for the EHP that Crul is giving you. This is where item budgeting needs to come into play, which slots can you swap out for items with a bit less stam but give something like hit, and is equaled out by the stam you are getting from Crul. A good example of a budget slot would be Bracer. Using Trueflight Bracers over T2 bracers. You'll retail around the same stam, yet gain 19 agil for crit and dodge and gain 1 hit.

.... dude. YOu are now adding the first hit damage twice in regards to AP. I'm adding the base damage of weapon 57 DPS Ironfoe, and 62.8 for Crul. I'm given Ironfoe the same % of 31.2% to the value increase of DPS from AP. 700 dps gives 50 AP to other weapons, gives an additional 15.6 DPS to Ironfoe from AP. 65.6. Then add the value of the weapons to the value that AP contributes..

Ah k. Makes more sense be glad to. So we can take your value of 700 ish AP. 700/14 - 50 DPS. 50 DPS*31.2% 15.6 65.6 DPS from AP. for Ironfoe, 50 DPS from AP for other weapons. We'll do the math with 1,000 AP as well (you'll see why later), so will give: 93 DPS from AP for Ironfoe, 71 DPS for other weapons. We can agree the base performance is 57 DPS from my calculations above with 0 AP? 700 AP: Ironfoe - 109.1 DPS. Crul (36 AP more) will have - 115.3 DPS 1,000 AP: Ironfoe - 136.5 DPS. Crul (36 AP more) will have - 136.4. Works out well. Seems that is the magic number. If you have 1k AP that is the breaking point of when Ironfoe becomes better than Crul prior to any weapon skill considerations (which gives about an 8% benefit to tanks) for threat specific conversations.

Thanks, because 2 hours ago is hard to remember. Average: a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number. Can you stop following me every post I make with the same 2 statements? Ironically with your hard-on for Ironfoe you don't take into account dodge/miss/parry but want me to do it here?

LOL glad that is cleared up........

"You get the same % adjustments of performance from Ironfoe vs Deathbringer / Crul / random gray weapon in terms of x amount of attack power per swing." I feel like you only give considerations of AP to Ironfoe and not to the other weapons you are comparing them to as if you'll have your 700ish AP for Ironfoe so you found it's DPS value and didn't do the same for the weapons you are directly comparing them to.

Why not? You get the same % adjustments of performance from Ironfoe vs Deathbringer / Crul / random gray weapon in terms of x amount of attack power per swing.

Yeah this bug has always been and is annoying. It's funny though cause sometimes I walk with the mob that is still going for a mage or something though the mob is targeting me, it paths towards the previous aggro person. I watch them burn their survivability CDs and blink. I then drag back to their blink location and watch them run away more. KeK. #TargetOfTargetFail On topic: This is very situational and becomes more difficult if a taunt occurs deeper into a fight. Example: MT has 10k threat. I taunt. I now have 10K threat for the next 6 seconds and have 6 seconds to exceed my required 1k/10% threshold (assuming the previous tank stops building aggro. 1K threat in 6 seconds is not hard. You are correct. Lets say I wait until later into the fight to do my taunt: MT has 50k threat. I taunt. I now have 50K threat for the next 6 seconds and have 6 seconds to exceed my required 5k/10% threshold (assuming the prevous tank stops building aggro. 5k threat in 6 seconds is hard. I recommend that your tanks get used to the practice of not moving from the tank location after being taunted off of until the taunt debuff expires and you are 100% it remains on the new tank. This isn't as critical in MC, however this can cause a wipe on the first drake in BWL if a tank goes to LoS to reset debuff stacks and the drake follows that tank after 6 seconds. For Golemag specifically, do the first swap much earlier than 15 stacks and that threshold of 10% threat will be much smaller and easier to overcome.

From another discussion I just commented on, will copy paste here: "To take variations of AP out of the equation we can do this by talking in % rather than raw numbers to determine it's value. @6% proc rate: 3.9 procs per minute assuming 25 autos + 40 globals. This is 7.8 extra white hits, our Auto Table now has a pool of 32.8 hits each minutes / 31.2% increase of rage gaining / white hit performing abilities. Take the 43.5 DPS from Ironfoe and add that 31.2% to the weapon and we get 13.5 more raw DPS to the weapon. Performance of a Stat-less 57 DPS weapon. My previous calculations used the 5% proc rate which is why I initially stated 56.3 ish on other post. So on par with Vis'Kag due to that proc also giving rage and slightly slower than deathbringer as the proc of deathbringer sucks, but the 2.9 speed gives a decent amount more average AP with crusaders PPM variations. Remember that Crul also has AP (though limited use to tanks vs fury) and has Stam to increase your EHP which Ironfoe does not. The raw AP Crul gives is > than the additional AP average you get from a 0.1 second slower MH for crusader PPM variations. "

To take variations of AP out of the equation we can do this by talking in % rather than raw numbers to determine it's value. @6% proc rate: 3.9 procs per minute assuming 25 autos + 40 globals. This is 7.8 extra white hits, our Auto Table now has a pool of 32.8 hits each minutes / 31.2% increase of rage gaining / white hit performing abilities. Take the 43.5 DPS from Ironfoe and add that 31.2% to the weapon and we get 13.5 more raw DPS to the weapon. Performance of a Stat-less 57 DPS weapon. My previous calculations used the 5% proc rate which is why I initially stated 56.3 ish on other post. So on par with Vis'Kag due to that proc also giving rage and slightly slower than deathbringer as the proc of deathbringer sucks, but the 2.9 speed gives a decent amount more average AP with crusaders PPM variations. Remember that Crul also has AP (though limited use to tanks vs fury) and has Stam to increase your EHP which Ironfoe does not. The raw AP Crul gives is > than the additional AP average you get from a 0.1 second slower MH for crusader PPM variations. PS: You never know when or if that other binding will drop. If you were horde I'd say pass all day until all Orcs had it, but since you are Alli, and the majority of fury warriors are or should be human, go for Crul.

Rage gain from damage done is 30:1 and damage received 90:1. @60. Values differ for lower levels but are linear.

The extra damage done is extra rage gain. You can't consider extra rage gain twice giving additional value. PS: 1:1 math.... kek.

Icebarded if you got AV. While the raw DPS of a weapon from crusader isn't the winner for WW axe, remember it's while leveling/grinding/soloing. The heal that comes along with Crusader will for sure help as well. The DPS comparison isn't always what you are looking for since the first attack is counted at 0 seconds and spreadsheets don't take into account kiting between auto-attacks. If you decide to roll duel wield with only 2% hit, I would suggest not attempting to grind mobs higher level than you, and actually kill mobs 2-3 levels lower than you. The exp pen is 5% per level lower IIRC, yet your kill time will be much higher.

Updated Quel from 75% uptime to 66% uptime. Moved rank of weapon as appropriate.

1.75 PPM gives it a 40 second per min average uptime, 66.66% not 50%. I am not doing calculations based off server bugs. Once said bugs are fixed they will display the accurate potential of said weapons. So I am still pulling from 70 possible attacks, not 61 attacks (skipping shield slam). Overlapping occurs less with a lower proc rate, I am not going full Sir Newton on probabilities, as it works on both sides, thinks can proc often and you get overlaps, and things could not proc, so we take average and move on with life.

I did it with a 6.66% proc rate derived from 2 PPM. 30 autos, 40 globals (assuming Sunder Armor and shield slam will get fixed), gives 70 possible situations of proc potential each minute. 70 * .066 = 4.62 procs a minute on average. 4.62 * 10 (duration of proc) = 46.2 seconds, assuming no overlap. 46.2 seconds of 60 seconds is 77% of a minute. I rounded down to 75%.

That proc trigger spell vs proc spell name restriction should NOT be in the game, only for Thunderfury. I've posted my proof a few times in other threads showing fiery weapon proccing off itself from 2005/2006. Another made up restriction on this server limiting the strength of chance on hit

This is about tanking.