cryofsorrow

This thread ended with this post.

I just realised there's a miscalculation on the Mp5 since I used that for longer fight and deleted it before posting the results. It should be 988 gained from Mp5 in the course of 98s fight. But this doesn't affect the numbers in anyway since all the calculations are using the same sustained mana.

I appreciate you took your time to calculate and type all this, but here's what my opinion is on the Intellect vs. Spell Power matter. I'm using my Priest as base for the 98s(97.5s) rotation below. Mana: 5266 base mana + 465 mana (31 AI) + 225 (16 MotW) = 5956 total mana Spirit: 144 base + 22 gear + 40 Divine Spirit + 16 Mark of the Wild = 222. Just the usual spirit/intellect buffs are included here. Kreg's Stout Beatdown is unavailable at the moment. Spirit regen: 222/4 + 12.5 = 68 normal regen = 10.2 mana per tick while casting (15% Meditation) Mp5: 32 mp5 from gear (Firemaw's Clutch, 4mp5 bracer enchant, Anathema, Shard of the Scale) + 20 mp5 from consumables (Mageblood Potion, Nightfin Soup) = 52 Mp5 Sustained mana in 1m37s(97s or 97.5s in the calculations) fight: 5956 + 1501rune + 2251potion + 489 (48x10.2 Meditation) + 1248 (Mp5) = 11 556 Mana I've put the maximum amount of mana regained through potion and rune in the sake of making the fight longer and calculation easier. This excludes any type of buffs like Blessing of Wisdom, Mana Spring Totem, Mana Tide Totem or Innervate. And you should be happy about this because the longer the fight goes, the lower damage output you have because you are lowering your Spell Power and the Intellect stat is STATIC. Tome of Shadow Power vs. Master Dragonslayer's Orb or 14 Intellect vs. 6 Spell Power Calculations include Loop of High End rotation (shadow word:pain->mind blast->2x mind flay->mind blast... which is made only for numbers purpose) and a 97.5s random rotation that I normally use due to being Horde and having threat issues sometimes. http://pastebin.com/sCea7FTX You can see that the longer the fight is, the less damage you will do with more Intellect. 14 intellect vs. 6 spell power = 364 more damage(0.1103498453% damage increase)/4 DPS(NOT sustainable) in 97.5 seconds fight with random rotation 1 intellect = 26 damage bonus in 97.5 seconds fight with random rotation There is no fight in MC or BWL that will benefit from this WHOPPING 364 extra damage increase due to having 14 more Intellect. Fight longevity check: Horde MC: http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/RaidOverview.aspx?Raid=38130 Horde BWL: http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/RaidOverview.aspx?Raid=38010 Alliance MC: http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/RaidOverview.aspx?Raid=38087 Alliance BWL: http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/RaidOverview.aspx?Raid=38061 Boss notes: On Ragnaros there's a chance you get knocked back. On Garr as a Priest, even if you are Shadow, you should help out with Dispel/Shield on exploding adds. Razorgore is being mind controlled by a shadow priest most of the time. Broodlord Lashlayer requires DPS to hold for the first 10-20 seconds due to the -50% aggro reduction ability he has. Chromaggus and his vulnerabilities. Nefarian is the Shadow Priest nightmare and according to the calculations, the longer the fight goes, the less effect Intellect stats has. The only fights that MAY beneft from having 12 more Intellect are Garr and Ragnaros only if you want that 364 MORE DAMAGE DONE. And to further prove my statement on Intellect vs. Spell Power, here's another calculation Tome of Shadow Power + Rockfury Bracers vs. Master Dragonslayer's Orb + Bracers of Arcane Accuracy or 26 Intellect vs. 12 Spell Power In this calculation I've used Mind Blast as the extra spell you get from having more Intellect since according to you Mind Blast is where your damage is coming from. (tip: Mind Flay is) http://pastebin.com/VtmviUJ2 26 intellect vs. 12 spell power = 354 more damage(0.010456357% damage increase)/3.6 DPS(NOT sustainable) in 97.5 seconds fight with random rotation 1 intellect = 13.61 damage bonus in 97.5 seconds fight with random rotation CONCLUSION The more Intellect you stack instead of Spell Power, the less your damage output will be. The 0.23% (14 intellect) and 0.43% (26 intellect) Spell Critical gained is NEGLIGIBLE. MIND YOU, THIS IS A SHADOW PRIEST DISCUSSION. IT'S ONE OF THE SPECS THAT HAS THE LOWEST DPS IN THE GAME. Also, thank you for making me look like an autist making all those calculations on SOMETHING SO INSIGNIFICANT. But who am I kidding... "Why don't you use Transcendence 3 Pieces where you get extra 15% Mana Regeneration while Casting? In combination with Discipline talent you go up to 30% Mana Regeneration which is imo something that makes you nearly impossible to oom even if you spam 5/5 improved Mindblast on CD thanks to runes and pots." is your creation. Source: https://forum.elysium-project.org/index.php?showtopic=23474&page=1#entry246760 And before you latch onto the numbers I've put and twist them through your "10 years of experience", I want to let you know that I won't respond back unless you put something else to calculate (NOT INTELLECT). PS: I reread your calculations and I find it hilarious that Intellect will increase your DPS on short fights. This makes absolutely zero sense. In the PvE basics thread, that is. You type different things in different threads, that's why it's hard to communicate and argue with you.

The only problem I have is with the players that can't communicate even with a simple "yes" or "no". This doesn't include chinese only but the majority that doesn't even have basic english knowledge is from China. Other than that I have no problem with players whatever their nationality and percentage of the realm population is. Obviously you can't force anyone to learn certain language but ruins the game for me a bit.

I've covered the talents thing in the first post but I will do it again. Reread it if you want. Both Spirit Tap and Blackout are useless in PvE raiding. There are few fights where you can time your Mind Blast for last hit on adds but that's about it. But it'll help you out when you farm gold/consumables. Blackout can only harm your raid by stunning a trash mob making the tank unable to gain enough threat on it and it'll go after DPS/Healers. The worst possible scenario is on Anub'Rekhan adds in Naxxramas. Threat can be an issue even with Salvation or Tranquil Air depending on your tanks and Mind Blast usage. This is something individual as it depends on your gear, playstyle and raid group. I forgot to add Starshards and at the moment I can't edit the first post. Starshards is useful on Chromaggus when he's vulnerable to Arcane and on Ahn'Qiraj trash mobs (can't remember their name) when they reflect Shadow. Isn't Starshards channeling spell? If so, it is not affected by Mental Agility. I've never played Night Elf Priest so may be I'm wrong on this. Also, it's not worth using in your rotation because you will have some parts of your gear with +Shadow Damage only. Also, Starshards won't benefit from Shadowform, Darkness and Shadow Weaving percentages. You can swap Unbreakable Will for Wand Specialization if you want but know this; once you get more than 350 Spell Power on your gear Mind Flay Rank 1 will outdps every wand in the game. I don't find wasting 2 talent points for SIlence worth it in PvE. You have other classes to silence, interupt or otherwise disable mobs. The specs I've linked in the first post are the most standart and optimized ones and they mostly vary depending on gear, consumables and Innervate/Mana Tide. But if you feel that you need to change something to accommodate your playstyle, go for it.

"Human Shadow Priest is best due to Spirit and Mana regen from that thanks to T2 (3 items sets and Disc Talent that will provide him 30% extra Mana regeneration from Spirit while Casting)" That's right. Let's use healing sets as shadow priest and do "extreme dps!!! with Killerduki's tips". "You can't deny the fact if you Max Rank on CD including 5/5 Mind Blast won't make you oom regardless how much Consumes you will use in any fight that is longer than 25 Seconds." ????????????????? "More Intellect is more Spell Casts = more Damage + Bigger Mana pool regenerating by Spirit/Mp5 Gear before it goes down + Spell Crit." Yeah, man, I stack intellect in order to regen mana. Kappa. You have 10 years of experience, my попа. I was thinking on calculating the actual differences on 14 intellect vs 6 spell power but now I see it won't matter any way because I've see this happening before and I know where it goes. You are the deffinition of a troll. I will just leave some links here so the community knows what kind of person they are dealing with. I won't respond to you any more in this forum but I won't ignore you so I keep the entertainment value out of it. http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/88243-bunnehs-raiding-shadowpriest-guide/?page=4 http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/84545-true-pve-shadow-priest-dps-agree-with-this-and-be-superior-or-leave-it/ http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/84735-killerduki-shadow-priest-guide-pve-damage-optimize-and-easy-mana-managment/ These threads actually contain really good and valuable information for anyone interested in the Shadow Priest. Of course you should ignore Killerduki's opinions about it since they are misinformed and intented to troll. There are also quite bit funny posts so don't eat while reading. PS: Thank you for ruining another thread with your misinformed фекал.

The 14 intellect won't result in 6 DPS increase in short fights since you're not using that additional Mind Flay gained by getting more Intellect on your gear. It will in fact lower your DPS because you're lowering your Spell Power. This is for short fights. The 0.23% spell critical is almost nothing. I will do some theorycrafting later today about longer fights and we'll see what numbers I come up with. Yes, same Meledyne. Sadly, you and I don't share the same opinion as the guy had pretty good idea on how not only shadow but overall the Priest class works. Anyway, this is not the thread's topic, I will return later today with numbers on Intellect vs. Spell Power on longer fights. I'll be using the Pre-AQ BiS gear as a stencil and I'll test Tome of Shadow Force vs. Master Dragonslayer's Orb again. Telling you this so you have the stats if you want to crunch numbers in the meanwhile. @Av_vA, your spec doesn't have Shadowform included. I believe this is somehow related with your avatar.

Some people like to make an argument out of it when comparing items like Tome of Shadow Force vs. Master Dragonslayer's Orb for example. The 14 intellect difference here will net you 0.23 spell crit and 210 mana which is 1 additional Mind Flay at the cost of 6 Spell Power. And this is why intellect has low priority.

@Undertanker, very nice dissertation on loot and BiS item slots, I agree completely. However, at the end of the day different guilds have different views on the matter. T2.5 Head is great for shadow priests, yes, but the gear lists I did is for pre-AQ that's why Mishun'dare is present in there. Also, getting T2.5 Head is almost as hard as getting Mishun'dare because it's really good for other casters as well. Almost all guilds have their shadow priests with the lowest loot priority, as they should. May be the only item that should always go to a shadow priest first is Firemaw's Clutch. I disagree with the Darkmoon Card being viable for shadow priests. In a 5 minute fight it'll proc 2 or 3 (if lucky) times according to: And I'm not even sure if it can proc off a channeling spell or DoT. Also, in reality you won't be spamming Mind Blast that much, which I'm certain it can proc off, and thus lowers the % even more. My Priest has 144 base + 22 gear + 40 Divine Spirit + 16 Mark of the Wild + 25 Dire Maul brew = 247 Spirit excluding Zanza potion which is not used every raid. Correct me if I'm missing a buff here. 247 Spirit = 247/4 + 12.5 (according to http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Spirit ) = 74.25 (74 rounded) normal regen for 15 seconds. That's roughly 370 mana for the duration. Let's say it procs twice, that's 740 mana. Shard of the Scale regains 960 mana for the same duration and it doesn't rely on 2% chance.

The IP lock was optional and regulated by the players with an in-game command. If you didn't lock your account you shouldn't be worried about. I did lock mine due to security reasons and in case I somehow manage to get 'hacked'.

I have a question that's relative to this topic. Is the IP lock that was introduced around January still in tact/active? It should be transfered over along with the account data and credentials right? And one more question I've wanted to ask about the IP lock; if somehow my IP changes and I'm unable to retrieve my previous address, will there be a 'unlock' function on the web page? I know it sounds fishy but I've had my ISP changing my IP address randomly in the past several years without prior notification and I would like to avoid any inconviniences if this happens again.

RIght, right, makes perfect sense. I'm using Rune first and Potion second by default but never put any thought on which one is better to use first. Thanks for the input on that matter. I agree about the PvP set pieces as well, but I'm in no way PvPer so I've never actually tried it in a raid since I've never got that set. And I guess we can put the PvP set parts being better on long fights such as Nefarian since they outperform straight Spell Power items in terms of mana gained which in turn equals more damage done. Same goes for items with Mana per 5 seconds items. Ring of Blackrock instead of a straight Spell Power ring and Shard of the Scale instead of an active trinket should outdps straight Spell Power items on longer fights. This is considering you don't get any Innervate/Mana Tide Totem. I really need that edit function now, must edit some stuff about the mp5 stat I forgot. ^^

No. Due to security reasons. Or I'll be surprised if they told what they use.

1. Sure we can. Feel free to compile one if you feel having more Intellect outperforms having more Spell Power. I'm too lazy to work with numbers, especially when it comes to something somewhat insignificant like this. 2. It's already explained why Intellect is with such low priority for Shadow Priests. If you come up with numbers countering this, I will change it once the edit function is fixed. 3. About using T2 3/8 bonus: It's a healing set, duh. The additional 15% mana regen while casting is okayish but I'm certain it's not worth losing so much spell power for it. And you still will get out of mana no matter what. Even Holy Priests that have good Spirit stats from their standart gear run out of mana, T2 set bonus or not. It's the same as using AQ20 Priest healing set as Shadow Priest just for that 5% damage increase on Shadow Word: Pain damage. It's simply not worth it. If you somehow disagree with all this, post numbers we can work with and we'll discuss it over.

I suggest this being pinned somewhere in the Warrior or PvE section. I've always told all warriors that all they need to tank is some armor and +def gear but mainly any shield would do the job even in end game 5mans. And 'tanking' in fury gear with no shield should be only comfortable if your party massively outgears the instance level, depending mainly on healer's gear. Just slap a shield on a warrior and you're good to go.

One of his older videos: "Nostalrius is dead. That's old news. New news iz dis..." "Chinese need to be check'd, son" Gets me laughing everytime.

I was just going through some capes. Archivist Cape of Shadow Wrath and as Shayss mentioned Amplifying Cloak should be the pre-raid BiS. I will make sure to put them on the list once that edit function is fixed. And yes, any green item of Shadow Wrath will yield more DPS overall on short fights with the price of having no stats and being expensive. But those are for min-maxing your gear for maximum spell power, I've made my list for a general overlook on the items. I have no idea how I missed the Amplifying cape and I farmed that thing for so long.

@Killerduki, that's the oldest source I could find. And I believe it should be a real vanilla one mainly because the guy doesn't mention Shadow Word: Death. If you happen to know better about the coefficients - be sure to let me know. I've mentioned the Intellect thing in the stat priority part. @Undertanker, I thought the mp5 set is a default for every dispel/cure/decurse class that's why I didn't include it. Good note for beginner priests. @Akirani, I've mentioned Felcloth Shoulders having more spell power but I personally like well-rounded items with both spell power and stats. I didn't mention Blue Dragon card due to couple of reasons; I've tried it more than few times in a raid environment on Nostalrius as both Holy and Shadow specs. I felt the % of the proc as quite unsatisfying for both specs and as shadow you won't have that much Spirit to make good use of it. Rather have 2x Mindtap Trinkets or Mindtap/Shard of the Scale. I'm sorry about the cloak, it's been a while since I've played Alliance. I'll try to find alternative for the other faction and add it when the edit function is fixed. Mageblood and Wisdom blessing should work together, I've never heard anything about not stacking. We need some Alliance priest to confirm this. @Prancinglid, both Spirit of Zanza and the Cortex potion are stacking with class buffs unless they changed something in the very last week before Nostalrius shutdown. The only thing that shoulndn't stack is the Blasted Lands Spirit buff from the same NPC and the Spirit of Zanza potion when consumed together, that's why I didn't mention it but it's a good substitude of Cortex buff if you don't go for Zanza potion. I knew I should've added Hexxers Cover but I was too lazy to calculate the differences in DPS output so I simply slapped Mish'undare in there. Kinda sloppy on my side, sorry. And funny you didn't mention Neltharion's Tear being unrealistic in the BiS list. ^^ I'm curious on the Rune first and Potion second thing. I don't see how it makes difference which one you pop first.

And continues like this "Wanna go upstairs?" Btw, coffee in a medieval inn... What?

The forum sections need a bit more alterations, true. I just realised the Guilds section has been finally split up so we're getting there slowly. I personally would like the old Nostalrius forums' arrangement being done the same way here. It was less messy and confusing for the most part.

You give a bone to a dog and it bites off your hand. Why the rush? I'm impatient to play my characters too (that demonic rune farm, hurr-durr), but I will wait up on the team to do their thing. May be they still have some merging stuff, configurations and tidbits to do. Also, in the last announcement they mentioned "...we will be having a 3rd and final test to confirm the coming improvements of this system to be production and launch ready." So they obviously have stuff to do before the re-launch. I tell you what, why don't you try the next best thing while you wait: Diablo 2 had it's Ladder reset last week, I think.

I too get that error occasionally with both my original DNS and Google one. Using Firefox. I usually refresh in 5-10 seconds and it's gone.

And now the second shift has arrived. вау. Me. Yes, I hope some moderator sweeps the non-Priest discussions here as well. @Theloras, next time try something along the lines "Here's what a friend of mine that used a not so popular spec did in MC as holy DPS." And end it there. /No kind regards

Cool. Nerf it, delete the grey stuff from the lashers, I don't care. I don't see why it should be changed if that's how it's been in retail vanilla. That won't lower the prices of Black Lotus for example, it'll even raise them at best.

I personally don't think it ruins the economy that much.There are other ways that produce more gold per hour and again include killing of mobs. Yes, there is the advantage of no threat of being ganked once inside the instance and it is pretty much guaranteed 20-25g/h if you're unlucky with item/bag drops, but is this enough to nerf this method? I'm absolutely fine with lowering even more the chance of grey drops but it'll become a problem once bigger patches hit on the realms and people who don't have the time to farm that much need flasks for progress for example. Just my 2 cents and I don't even farm that instance anymore.