Roxy

Doesnt matter if people want it more difficult or not. Your suggestion blows, and would remove a lot of fun from the game. Gathering world buffs is a big part of vanilla raiding, removing them wouldnt make anything harder, just less fun for those going for speedclears.

Cant say this is the best tactic since we just got bwl on darrowshire, so we only cleared it 3 weeks, But this is how we do it currently, but we are still working on perfecting our strategy. We los pull with the tank who is on goblins, so that he gets the initial agro and can start aoe threat asap. As soon as the tank has pulled, we use mages to silence the warlocks and los them so the tanks can pick them up. Then hunters pull the spellbinders to a tank that stand behind a wall, so that the spellbinders are not in los of the raid or the tank healers. But they can still heal the spellbinder tank. (This way they cant target the raid with their aoe) We nuke the warlocks asap, while our warlocks are prepared to banish demons as they spawn, (the raid needs to move away from the portals) (spread out as much as you can to avoid uneccesary damage from rain of fire. If people got good reactions, they can even move out of it before you take any damage) Then ranged aoe the goblins, while melee runs to spellbinders to kill them. When the goblins are dead, ranged kill demons. This is just a rough overview of how we do it, and you need to adapt to the different places (the stairs can be a bitch, but can also be a good tool to los stuff(warning:including healers))

How can you even say it is a problem when you don't have a 60 to experience this yourself? Premade vs Randoms is how the game works, you may feel it's unfair, but it is not a problem, you can solve this unfairness by making your own premade, In vanilla, you don't got developers holding the hand of those who refuse to socialize, it was made so that you would use the community to form groups Scouting to dodge other premades are against the rules. afking at graveyard is players own decision when they rather want quick loss than to fight with honor to have fun

It was you that claimed premade vs random is a problem, and then you come with patchnotes for the last patch in the next expansion as some kind of "proof" The current matchmaking is blizzlike, and changing that cause you dont want to make a group yourself is in fact moving your problem onto the players that do make groups Unless you find some patchnotes from 1.12 or earlier that does changes to matchmaking, you have no ground for your argument

So your suggestion is to move YOUR problem, over to other players? And the patch notes you linked, is from tbc, not vanilla

Thanks for the reply, we understand why this is neccesary, just a bit harsh to get chatbanned for an hour just for mentioning gold in the tradechat :-D

I must agree with this. Just got chatbanned for trying to sell darkmoon faire ticket set in tradechat, first message in tradechat didnt get trough the spam filter, and im chatbanned for god knows how long.

If you are raiding, just go sm/ruin with the imp. No management is needed other than placing the imp close to the tank or melee. If that is too much pet management, then a warlock seems like a bad choice for you. Or just simply go Ds/ruin. No point being affliction anyways if you are not going to provide an imp

I just dont understand the argument "with an even slate" who are you competing with? Noone. This is vanilla, not legion where if you lose a few weeks of progress and you are miles behind everyone else. On the pve server only mc is open, and most mc items are worse than dungeon blues. Only thing you need to do to catch up is to run dungeons. Many guilds are recruiting. Many guilds being formed, if you know how to play properly there is no problem getting into the end game. And if you join a guild thats been farming mc for a while you will get tier 1 thrown after you and poof, you are equal

Normal dkp is the simplest there is. I advice epgp. Its a really good system when used with some common sense for certain items. Though it is a bit more complex. But any system you pick works well if you foster a good guild envoirment. Biggest issue with dkp systems are people that horde dkp an passes on upgrades and let a item go to disenchant. This is where common sense come in to the picture, and some solid class leaders needs to do their job.

Having been officer in almost all guilds ive been in since vanilla to legion. I can tell you to follow Elviss' advice. Flasking aint really really required untill late naxx. With the exception of tanks. But the flask requirent can be negated with more gear but it make life easier for sure

The ToS is made for this private server

The war effort will indeed give them some extra time to fine tune and test internally. Just hope it will be enough

deep destro is pretty bad in vanilla, decent burst, but high mana costs. You kill one mob at a time, while as affi/demo specc you could kill 2-3 mobs at the same time, while keping mana and health high By going destro you are going to spend half of your time drinking, when you could as affi have spendt killing. Aoe grinding with Rain of Fire and Hellfire is just not good. low chance of stun and daze, you got no other way of keeping mobs off you than luck. Saccrifice voidwalker helps, you resummoning pet after every pull cost a lot of time and mana, and you cant even kill half the mobs a mage can in one go. It's very inefficient, but who am i to tell you what to do. this is a game and if you think you will have fun doing it that way, i have no right to stop you.

AQ was PTR tested prior to the nost shutdown, I did not participate in the test myself, so i cannot comment on how blizzlike it was. just that it was tested, feedback was given and work most probably done Edit: After reading the nost forum, seems like only half the bosses were tested

Wouldnt make sense to split up a already small part of the community, when the existing pve server is so fresh Edit: Noone is currently outgearing anyone by a huge margin on pve server, dungeon blues are better than most of the MC items, so you're already at an even playing field, with the exception of having to level up.

It doesnt mess with them, when the reset happens before they start to raid. Its probably the only time that does not mess with anyones raid times

haha, I'm in Lothars Reign (A)

I've been in many guilds trough the years, and experienced a lot of dkp systems There are definatly a lot of horrible systems out there, but the biggest factor is whether you got members that actually care about more than just the loot that drop. With good members, you can make any system work well, But the way to finding those good members is a lot easier when you have a good system in place Edit: I also never really disagreed with anything you said, except that all systems are bad. I share the very same values when it come to building a guild, and i am very lucky to be in such a guild on Nost pve. (We got 35 of our 45 members returning cause everyone loved playing together)

That is correct, there is no superior system. It's when you use a system like EPGP together with some common sense you get a superior system

Those two things are not exclusive, most well functioning guilds have both a good loot system, and good guild members that think about more than their personal e-peen

That is still not a system error, it's a player error. It's totally possible to be an unselfish player, but still use dkp systems to reward activity, And most dkp systems have fail safes to prevent people taking items that is better suited for someone else. (Edit) and you can still be a nice guy and pass items down to others with less dkp And it is not like the guy who attended a few raids less will recieve no items at all, but he will have lower priority when it come to the best items, cause thats where people will spend most of their dkp.

Effort in vanilla raiding and effort in Mythic raiding cannot be compared, its a totaly different game in that regard In vanilla, mechanical skills is not that important, that is why time commitment is rewarded over mad skills Ill take weapons for example, In Retail, a raid drops tons of weapons, and every class almost got a different BiS, with exceptions of course. In vanilla, you got a ton more players to fight with for a good weapon upgrade, and it's usually 1 weapon that is BiS for several classes

I agree with you on pretty much everything you said Faith. I'm not saying that having to spend time with your family is a bad thing, and it is also not about 3 raids vs 4 raids. This is a long term game, where those raids will eventually lead to a 75 vs 100 raids And thats where the difference begins to show I am myself in a guild that follows the exact values that you posted there, personality over mad skillz and loot. that is why we use a EPGP system that is actually fair, and it is fast and easy to catch up to those dkp hoarders. The issue with what you said does not lie with systems, it is with people valuing their epics higher than friends and family, i am totaly ok with people having real life attatchements. But it should also be rewarded if you are a active player

What you quoted me on there wasnt related to your system at all, but at the post from Faith