Maxvla

I just went from 0/5 wand spec to 5/5 wand spec with the same wand. My damage went up quite a bit. Wand spec works fine.

Are you sure it's not the wand itself? Look at the example I posted. Wands were doubled in power later. Otherwise, look at the wand's damage range, wand something, observe the damage, then compare to the range + 25% from talent.

Wand spec is working fine. Wands were buffed later in the game. For example the common starter wand, Lesser Magic Wand, is currently a white item and does 5.7 dps. Later in vanilla it does 11.3 dps and is a green.

There was no 1.13 patch. The next major patch after 1.12 was 2.0. The fel lotus for BC flasks did drop off any BC herb, but black lotus continued to be 1 per hour per zone, so I'm not sure I see how 'Blizzard did it', when they didn't.

Shield costs more and prevents less damage than renew heals. For example a level 34 would have these spells: Power Word: Shield - 204 mana 301 shield Renew - 170 mana 315 healed On a high level or hard hitting enemy of course you would shield first. Also, shadow form increases the value of shield 15%, so after shadow form you would always shield first, partly because shield and renew are in parity, partly because dropping shadow form to heal or eat is more downtime.

On retail vanilla servers, it was 1 spawn per hour in the 4 zones, so in a given week, you had (at most) 672 lotus per server for every guild to share. A single guild using flasks on all 40 raiders raiding 3 nights a week for 4 hours would use 240 lotus. This wasn't sustainable, and was the main reason why flasks were rarely used other than on tanks. In the process of clearing vanilla as a mage, I used precisely 3 flasks; supreme power on our first C'Thun and Patchwerk, and Titans on our first 4HM. This was standard practice across the guild, so no I wasn't being lazy and carried. We had 3 Naxx clearing guilds on the server and several others working on earlier Naxx bosses, and dozens of guilds in BWL/AQ, so lotus was extremely rare. So, as you can see, you don't NEED flasks to clear Naxx, but they would certainly smooth out your progress and speed it up. This over abundance of lotus is part of why servers like Warsong had to super buff raid bosses. For example, Kel'thuzad had 3 times the HP he had on retail vanilla. Sure, people know how to play better and are better informed, so a tuning adjustment could be warranted if your server staff wanted to, but Blizzard surely did not tune Naxx fights for raid wide flasks. How to adjust for population difference? I'm not sure. 672 lotus for a server with concurrent online population between 7-12K is clearly not going to work. My retail vanilla server only had about 3-4K peak and 672 lotus was already a strain. I'm not sure it can be fixed due to the mechanic Blizzard intended for lotus.

You are right, I wasn't taking that into account because that's not what I was talking about. I was addressing the notion people get when they realize they can now pick up shadow form, they don't say to themselves 'oh sweet I can take 15% less damage now!'. They say 'I'm going to do a lot more damage now', which is wrong, and was my point. While waiting for Elysium, I was playing a priest on Magicwow. Got it to 36 before deciding I had played it enough and would wait for the release. At that level, I would mind blast, swp, VE, then wand it to death. Typically I'd end up around 40-50% hp and 80-90% mana. A single renew was enough to heal me to full and I'd be at 100%/100%. Shadow form wouldn't change much, I'd kill it a little faster, and take a little less damage, so ending at 60-70% hp. Eventually you would need to heal and have to drop shadow form or use food.

I accounted for all the talented damage increases. You have shadow weaving no matter which spec you are at that level. The only difference is 1/5 darkness (2% shadow damage) and 25% wand damage, or 5/5 darkness (10% shadow damage), and shadow form (15% shadow damage). It's academic, most people want shadow form to look cool, but if grinding speed is all that matters, there's basically no difference.

The point of my post was not about max dps, it was to show how Rank 1 Mindflay benefits from spell power the same way Rank 6 does. Take away the 500 spell power and replace with 500 int with the same Rank 1 Mindflay and max rank SWP and you will do precisely 81.75 dps. Recall 500 spell power did 250 dps with these same spells.

Once again you don't bother explaining what you are talking about. Are you saying it is lower dps to use rank 1? Obviously, but it is 1/2 the dps for less than 1/5th the mana cost (45 vs 205). That is the point people are trying to make to you. You certainly want to avoid using rank 1 mindflay if possible, but it is not terrible if you need to. Used with max rank SWP (106 DPS in this gear), you'd be doing 250 dps while gaining mana, not losing it. (with raid buffs/consumables)

Sigh, here we go again. Mindflay is learned at level 20 and is thus, not subject to the level 20 rule. Mindflay has a custom coefficient of 45.8% which does not follow any rules (hence custom). Since it is a custom coefficient, the 5% snare penalty is already applied. There are no penalties in effect for Mindflay since it has a custom coefficient. Any penalties Blizzard felt it needed, were made in the custom coefficient. Every rank of Mindflay has a 45.8% coefficient, rank 1 though rank 6. Only the spell's base damage is different. For a character with 500 spell damage (only darkness, shadow weaving and shadowform calculated): Rank 1 Mindflay = 3 ticks of 136 = 408 Rank 6 Mindflay = 3 ticks of 316 = 954

Oh God, please don't reopen that can of worms.

It is not intellect vs spell power, wand and regen. It is intellect, wand and regen vs spell power, wand and regen. They are being fairly compared. I am simulating a real fight with real talents,real buffs, real debuffs.

Yes, as I've already explained multiple times.

The original test was 240 seconds as you well knowsince you told me to do it. The results posted were from that test. And yes, the spreadsheet accounts for crit from int.

What?? I'm using your specifications. I'm not cherry picking anything. In all those tests the character ran out of mana (500 intellect or not), so I decided to see what would happen if I removed the least efficient ability, mind blast. The result is higher total damage and maintaining shadow weaving until the end of the fight. If you removed all abilities but swp,you would merely have 10 shadow word pains. 240 seconds divided by 24 second swp. This would be significantly lower total damage.

Repeating again, since Killer is talking about the damage downgrade for not using mind blast... I removed mind blast from the test and repeated the conditions. No mind blast - 500dmg + consumes = 102487 - (with mindblast = 96292) 500int + consumes = 81748 - (with mindblast = 95722) 500dmg - consumes = 58652 - (with mindblast = 54584) 500int - consumes = 60347 - (with mindblast = 58266) 500dmg - consumes no regen = 44051 - (with mindblast = 40634) 500int - consumes no regen = 48631 - (with mindblast = 46482) Highest damage outcome is spell power and NO mindblast. Stop wasting our time.

Again, results from the spreadsheet: What actually happens in game - 500dmg + consumes = 96292 500int + consumes = 95722 What doesn't happen in game - 500dmg - consumes = 54584 500int - consumes = 58266 What also doesn't happen in game - 500dmg - consumes no regen = 40634 500 int - consumes no regen = 46482 As Bezawit says, you can't ignore buffs/consumables.

All I said was that it wasn't necessary to respec and provided the reason why damage dealt would remain the same. Everyone always talks about respecing for shadow form like it's some huge dps boost when it isn't. That's all I'm here to talk about. Regarding the half dmg from wand, of course I can't be precise. People will have different wands.

Have you ever actually read a post in it's entirety? By respeccing at level 40, you give up improved wand to pick up shadow form and 4 points in darkness. About half of your damage against a mob at that level is from your wand, the other half from shadow damage. Improved wand is 25% improvement for 50% of your damage. Shadow form and 4 points of darkness is 23% improvement for 50% of your damage. 25% wand > 23% shadow. Get it?

Killerduki won't even acknowledge when his own test parameters resulted in spellpower being superior to intellect. He keeps posting images from our conversation that actually support my position, and says they support his. I guess he thinks that if he keeps saying it's true that he believes it will become true. Math doesn't change just because you want it to. Every time he links them, I just see proof I'm right on every point, and it's funny.

Shadow guard does proc black out. Someone on discord tested it during the third stress test (instant 60).

It is not necessary to respec at level 40 for shadow form. It does not actually increase your damage dealt. As you say, you are still mostly using your wand. The difference from level 40 with imp wand and 1/5 darkness and no shadow form is +25% wand damage, +2% shadow damage. At this level, you will do about 50% of your damage to the mob with your wand. Respeccing to Shadow form loses the 25% wand damage to pick up 8% shadow damage from darkness and 15% from shadow form, as your wand and shadow damage are equal, this results in lower damage being dealt (2% lower, 27% vs 25%). You do gain the lower damage taken, but I rarely find that a concern while killing mobs. If you are concerned with pvp, I would respec for the damage reduction. By the time you start transitioning away from your wand, you will have shadow form.

But it doesn't. Look at the figures again. Int only wins when you don't use consumables, or you don't use consumables and you don't spec for meditation or have raid buffs. Neither of these sets of circumstances actually happen in game.

These were the guidelines I was given to test by Killerduki, as you can clearly see in my image link in the post with the first test results. The situation is not realistic, but the gear choices are quite possible. I would not recommend it. I just put together a set of gear that has 530 spell damage, and only 9 intellect (see below). Conversely I probably wouldn't have too much trouble putting together a mostly healing based set with 500 intellect (which would not have spell damage). I do not have a list of healing gear handy as my focus is shadow priest. Green Lens of Shadow Wrath +36 Jeklik's Opaline Talisman +23 Felcloth Shoulders +26 Archivist Cape of Shadow Wrath +21 Felcloth Robes +36 Rockfury Bracers +27 Felcloth Gloves +33 Sash of Whispered Secrets +33 Flarecore Leggings +43 Maleki's Footwraps +27 +9 int Band of the Inevitable +36 Ring of Spellpower +33 Briarwood Reed +29 Neltharion's Tear +44 Arathi Basin Exalted Dagger +30 Tome of Shadow Force +34 Wand of Qiraji Nobility +19 = 530 dmg, 9 int ps. my money would be on the toddler. they are pretty quick.