Oakenlix

@Metabolomics So what's the point of this thread then? Maybe I'm missing something here.

No, it's actually not. Servers are down right now, probably because of a DDOS attack, which is also why the website doesn't show it correctly. I don't think anyone can join right now.

While I understand your example, I'd like to note that it's completely irrelevant to the discussion about loot rules. Why? Because the "Gear upgrade = Need, else Greed" system doesn't care about poor people same as "Need on all BoEs". "Gear upgrade = Need, else Greed" suggests that a poor mage can't roll on a BoE axe to sell it, even if the warrior for whom it's a gear upgrade is rich. "Need on all BoEs" suggests that a rich mage has the same right to roll on a BoE axe as a poor warrior. Neither of those systems are able to provide the poorest group member with a drop. A copy-pase from one of my previous posts: So yeah, a nice example of how it would ideally be better to distribute loot, still it doesn't help us at all in discussing which system is better in practice.

Yeah, because assuming all the scumbags only play on one side would be weird.

No, he won't, and neither will the tank, so they roll and whoever wins gets the drop. Makes sense?

What I'm saying is that winning the roll would save him exactly the same amount of money (that he wouldn't have to spend on AH) as it would bring to the rogue that will sell it, and the value of the drop is equal for both of them. So gtfo with this "truly NEED, not want" bullshit. What is that even supposed to mean? He will starve to death without those boots or something? Why can't the tank go and spend his time "gathering herbs or mining to earn the money" to buy these boots from AH? Because they both chose to do the dungeon and both have the rights to get value out of it. Because he lost the roll. Quit typing nonsense already and try to think about this matter for a minute, jesus.

They are fairly cheap on auction house anyway.

Ok, so why don't you just buy these boots from AH?

Casinos are forbidden by ToU, and this could be considered a form of one.

I guess you did. What justifies rolling need on a BoE is the fact that anyone benefits equally if they win it, either directly by equipping it or by selling/exchanging it for a suitable upgrade for your class. This of course doesn't apply to BoPs since vendoring or disenchanting it doesn't bring nearly as much value as equipping it.

@Jupes85 And I fail to see why you would think that whether or not you should roll "Need" depends on the item's value. It only depends on whether or not you need it more, less or equally to other group members. Which pretty much means: roll need on BoEs always, roll need on BoPs only if its a gear upgrade to you.

Hello. What you just said makes no sense. Yes, everything that can be sold for gold could partially or fully provide you with a gear upgrade. No, it doesn't mean it's ok to "Need" on everything.

[[ I'm calling him out for acting like a entitled little twat because that's what he's doing in this thread. I'm not trying to characterize him as a person in general, so I don't have to take into account how he would act in other situations. Same as if I call someone's post stupid, this doesn't imply that person is stupid. We all write stupid stuff sometimes. ]] UPD: now that I gave it a little more thought, I guess you're right. From my perspective, someone who prefers the so-called "Need before Greed" system acts selfishly when his gear upgrade drops (expecting others to pass) and selfless with other items (passing on it himself). And from his perspective, I act selfishly when other people's gear upgrade drops (by rolling on it), and selfless when it is my gear upgrade (by letting everyone roll for it). So yeah, both parties have equal reasons to call or not to call another "entitled little twats". Well, that's what we're doing here anyway. :D

Haha. No, I'm sorry, but that question is still stupid, because you didn't specify anything: is it BoE or BoP, is it valuable, etc. I think you were just trying to avoid my very simple question I asked you before that: what difference does it make if a gear upgrade is direct or indirect and why should one has higher priority than the other? The poll, by the way, it very clear and comprehensible, I'll give you that. So no, your question was stupid, this poll is not. it's not the same.

Not at all. I'm implying that this particular person feels entitled to get that particular item that he's talking about ignoring the others need for it. I didn't call him greedy, neither implied that someone is. I think you misunderstood what I said. And yes, greed has nothing to do with prefered loot rules, not sure why you'd think I believe otherwise.

What question? Quote please?

I feel your pain bro! These Ruskies and English people are all over the place!

@J.AllenBrack It's funny because you don't realize you sound like an entitled little twat yourself, claiming that everyone should just pass a universally valuable item to you only because it's a gear upgrade to you, ignoring the fact that it could just as well become a gear upgrade for other group members. Trading the BoE item for gold is a legitimate use too. Because they won the roll maybe? That's what gives them the right to do whatever they wish with this item. We're not talking about BoPs, and no, it's not an entitlement, it's a fair roll where you win or lose. Please stop assuming that the only use for an item is to wear it, it's not true. No, please get some logic classes before drawing such conclusions. If an item is easily convertable into gold and vice versa, which BoEs are, it's worth is it's equivalent in gold. And everyone in the group has the same right to this gold, no matter in form of which item it dropped. This doesn't apply to BoPs, obviously, because you can't buy one. And the gold you get from vendoring/disenchanting such an item is far lower that it's actual worth, so rolling on a BoP that you can't wear is ninjaing. Anyway, seeing as you copy and paste your butthurt story in every thread, you're probably just very very mad about losing a roll, so I'm not sure there's a point in arguing with you.

You are wrong, and several times you mention "actually use" and "just to sell" dismissing the use of the item by converting it to gold as something less important, the truth is - this item indirectly is just as big of a gear upgrade for others as it is for you, and you're just upset you lost the roll. Which is understandable, but there's no reason to be mad at other group members. They deserved the chance to get this drop same as you.

Don't you guys think that if he could/wanted to get both, he wouldn't be asking which one is better? Anyway... mining is nice at high level if you know the spots with lots of ore, because thorium/truesilver have good price and you happeb to get some gems too.

Tbh I wanted to see a poll like that ever since this post: Would be interesting to see poll results in a day or two, but so far it seems pretty ironic considering the amount of "Majority opinion" arguments there were posted.

It is tedious, but you kinda have to either do that or deal with what other people consider default loot rules. You could make a macro for that, after all.

If you don't like people rolling on BoEs, just state your loot rules if you are the group leader. Its that simple.

This is a vote btw, not a finish of the discussion.

Alright. One more time. 1. Linguistics and definitions are irrelevant in this discussion. What the words "Need" and "Greed" mean is irrelevant. There are game mechanics that speak for themselves, and those are: if you click "Need", you will roll for that item. If you click "Greed", you will only roll if nobody has chosen "Need". That's it, no need to bring up dictionaries and stuff. So the only difference between "Need" and "Greed" is priority - high for the former and low for the latter. If you think you need this drop as much as other group members or more, you choose "Need". If you think you need it less, choose "Greed". 2. Doesn't matter what the purpose of the group is, if every member contributes equally (which we assume, because otherwise just don't group with slackers), then every member has equal right to roll on a universally useful item, which BoEs are. 3. It's not "distant future". Auction houses are easily reachable places. Whether you benefit from this drop instantly or day after, doesn't make much difference. 4. What does it matter if you can benefit directly or indirectly? Stats and gold are easily convertable into each other, period. If an item is easily convertable into gold and vice versa, which BoEs are, it's worth is it's equivalent in gold. And everyone in the group has the same right to this gold, no matter in form of which item it dropped. This doesn't apply to BoPs, obviously, because you can't buy one. PS: just because I don't care about your opinion doesn't mean I won't reply to you, and that's yet another display of how weird your way of thinking is. PPS: and now that I've read your later posts, I'm finally convinced you're a hopeless moron with no shred of logic in your head. Good job.