Nosleep

what about legit players bank alts etc?

i did that but there is no option in the in game tickets pannel for gold sellers, so i made it under harassment and pointed them here to the screen shot yeah, thanks mate :) its just unclear exactly where to report this stuff so i generally do both :)

nah dude i got your point, i just have a different opinion, check the other post where i quoted you and explain in much detail.

lol entry lvl troll.. the mafia doesnt effect me in the slightest, your argument is fail in so many ways haha :P where did u learn to troll? yahoo comments and youtube? whats next? more random insults and name calling, avoiding any and all points.. then on to the mum insults? roflmao

LOL i know im being paranoid, but the timing is very coincidental lol :P I think I may have upset some ppl who may be making a lot of money out of this... i know its a leap, but lol :P This guy, lvl 6, just randomly came up to me at mail box and open trade and started putting gold into top bar ...333 ... i closed window.. he did it 2 more times and i close window and moved away... then he said this in screenshot. trying to get me banned boys? lol just come lvl here and fight me like a man..

I like this, its very true, you dont need them items for entry raids, both because its skill>gear and there are many other items that are perfectly good enough. And the not buying it from AH boycot thing is also a great idea.

I think that any amount of win trading is not ok. example: If i was win trading, but didnt do it much, or stopped at a lesser amount so as not to 'break the system' or if I was doing it wrong :P or if i was just very inefficient and so my gains were less... I dont think that would be ok. Because its the principle thats not ok.. not the amount of gain.

I see what youre saying, but I never mentioned the money gains. I feel farming and killing the competition is perfectly ok and have said that many times. im not effected by this but im happy with the farming and would love them to come to ZK so i could go head to head with them, i have said that many times now. On a more personal note: I actually love the RP aspect of a group of people trying to take over an entire area or resource .. and if it was happening to me, I woulnt stop untill I had soooo many ppl destrying them that they were shamed into the shadows for ever thinking they were badass! :P ... take over un'goro?? - Let Alliance scum take over un'goro?? ... lol not on my watch :D My only point was the win trading comparison, or more accurately, the principle behind why win trading is felt by most to be unfair. I see and understand your point about the differences bettwen the effects of classic win trading and the PVP aspect of what these guys are doing, but because I agree with the principle behind why win trading is not ok, and i feel the co-op PVP aspect of this is exactly the same, I think it should be looked at in detail and discussed. They gain money and thats fine, but by doing this in the way they are, they are also gaining pvp victorys and rewards (honor, Hk's etc, however small or large it may be) by assisting the opposite faction to 'win' in PVP and so then getting that same favor returned, or traded, back to them.. they trade/share PVP victorys.. so the principle and outcome is the same. I dont know if you will mention blizz rules to me, but i have already explained how they are not a valid argument because just by being here, we show our desire to cherry pick and modify any we, or the admins, feel they want or need to for each specific situation, rules are changed and new ones introduced, and the PVP aspect of this is something i feel needs to be properly looked at.

hey dude, while i agree that them things (the gold selling) are against the rules and if found should be banned, and it does suggest they are doing that, the actual act of farming mobs and killing the competition is perfectly ok.... and without any actual proof (which i do feel they would find if they looked, but they dont have time they said) there is nothing they can do and cant ban the action, unless it also includes something that is banable. i hope u see my point and dont assume im claiming youre wrong about them gold selling, i think they are, but its not a valid argument without proof.

entry lvl troll who actually enjoys upsetting ppl.. wow.. what a nice guy... is this your 1st day as a troll? dont bother mate, dont turn in to 1 of them pathetic human beings who takes enjoyment from trying to hurt and upset others. oh sorry thats right, youre prob a lovely person off line, you only act like that online cos youre too scared to act like that in public... turn back b4 its too late dude, i mean it, there are better ways to be in life.

double post, deleted.

Thats you, including me when you say ''Every single voiced problem here can be solved via in game means. Every. One.'' - or did you forget you wrote this? I disagreed with it and gave details why. And now you say u dont know why i said what i said, like you have no clue what i was on about - you are a lier or a complete idiot so talking to you after this post will be pointless. Thats also you saying ''This is classic "I want it butt I don't want to work for it" syndrome. Someone went to the crater. Couldn't get what they wanted in 10 minutes and decided a whine post would get it easier'' after referring to 'every single voiced problem' - thats you, talking to me and every other person who wants to debate this, and thats you including me in your claim its all just cry babies who cant get devilsaurs. why i meantion the server im on? To show the mafia dont effect me, so your claim is bogus, and i told a very brief few things about me to counter your claim i cry if i cant get it in 10 mins... but you know that, and so avoided all actual points and went for insults lol. now you pretend to not know what im on about.. lol, youre a complete idiot.. or a lier.. or both... sorry for personal insult, but my post was not insulting in the slightest and you just replied with anger and insults. you addressed everyone at the start of your post, you called everyone a cry baby... i totally destroyed your youtube troll style comments.. and then you pretend you dont know why i posted... oh dear can u back track and run any more?

If i was a GM here, I would investigate every person who supports these guys, because chances are 1/2 of them are youtube trolls and the other half are involved, and while i have no evidence of gold selling, i bet there is some.

ok 1st: im not on elysium, never have been, and i would love this mafia to come to ZK and try to chase me out of un'goro.. cos i would murder them all happily. And i have stated previously on these forums, openly, calling the mafia out and stating that i am more than happy with the idea of co-op farming and if they want to threaten me they can, and ill kill them all.. i told them... so your argument is very poor. 2: there is an ingame game solution to win trading, but because its considered unfair and cheating to purposefully assist the opposing faction to win pvp battles, it was decided, upon it being discovered, that win trading would be introduced into the rules... and so it was... and not just because it has no in game counter measure, because it does, you could just get more friends and win trade more... but because it was clearly abusing a system and unfair, we all agree its cheating. Just cos they cant prove something, doesnt make it ok. there are in game solutions to bots, but we still say its cheating. there are in game solutions to 'griefing' but we still says its not ok.. there are exceptions to that concept of ''in game solution, not our problem'', its the principle that normally dictates if we thinks its fair or not. But to be fair, your attitude is ridiculistic with insulting overtones, making assumptions about me that are clearly wrong as im not even effected by this problem... which clearly shows you are just the sort of person who enjoys belittling ppl even though you clearly dont understand their point at all. rules change, new rules are made to accommodate new situations, the in game solution argument is also valid for win trading but its still considered cheating. also, dont quote blizz rules as though that means anything, we are breaking their rules just by playing here.. so they obviously dont matter to us, we cherry pick the ones we want to follow (or the admins do i should say) and they also modify anything they feel they need to , to accommodate specific situations, like the recent war effort. EDIT: ''crying cos i cant get summit in 10 mins???'' are u serious?, i was rank 12 vanilla retail with no premade or account share, i pug farmed the whole thing, i also server 1st the entire content of TBC expac upto and including m'uru pre nerf.. so dont talk to me about crying cos i cant get something in 10 mins.. you have no idea who i am.

there are differences in the details on exactly how the 2 opposing factions are assisting each other to gain pvp advantage .. but in principle its exactly the same. win trading in bg's is 1 side preforming an action (in bg's that forfitting games to give marks to the other team who will in return do the same for you) so as the other faction can gain pvp reward/advantage.. and we say thats unfair. In this situation, they are preforming actions (assisting the opposite factions players to help then 'win' a pvp battle) ... this is not just spying and telling trade chat ''the alliance are coming to org so get ready'', this is them purposefully assisting the opposite faction so that they win a battle. If doing that in bg's is considered unfair, then how is doing it in open pvp considered fair?

If the admins decided that the principle behind win trading is unfair and so anywhere that principle is being used is also unfair, but they dont have time to look at evidence, knowing that the community will do the investigating and collecting of evidence, and all that needs to be done is look at each reported case and decide each case individually. I would happily volunteer my time to look at each case, filter them down to the cases that fit this principle, then forward them to the appropriate person,

ahh ok sorry, yes thats my point too, we are not blizz and we break blizz rules when we as a community or they as the admin dont agree with them or dont care about them. We as a community and they as the admins change the rules and make new ones, take the recent war effort for example, they changed rules and objectives to accommodate a new situation.... ...this win trading / co-op pvp situation i feel needs to be looked at. Co-op farming is 1 thing.. but as soon as PVP is involved, i think it becomes win trading.

no, be careful, multi boxing is not ok... admins made a post about it. You are allowed to do it in very specific situations for very short periods of time, like to trade something between alts or put an enchant on your weapon. But out in the world, so to speak, its not allowed and will get u banned.

Also, anyone stating blizz rules and EULA's etc as a reason why this should be ok.... acting like because blizz say its ok its ok and if they say its not then its not. You should delete your char, leave the server and report yourself to blizz for breaking their rules. This is a discussion about the comparison between win trading in and out of bg's, the principle.. its not an exercise in following blizz rules to the letter, cos none of us do that.

Np's, thats what normal ppl do. they discus and present their points of view etc in as mature and factually correct way as they can, without devolving into name calling and sarcastic ego comments made to belittle others.

I can see what youre saying, i really can. And i dont disagree with he fact there is no outlined rule against it in world pvp... but nobody disagress with the principle behind why win trading is bad, and this with its PVP aspect, is exactly the same. My point is that because they are doing exactly what win traders do, and no one likes win traders, the gains may be less but they are still gaining, it is giving them the same benefit by employing the same tactic as win trading and it should be discussed and looked at. New rules get made for new situations, and this i feel is 1 worth looking at.

and so if you and your friends are playing football outside of a sports arena, in your local field, and 1 of your team mates scores own goals or fouls your own players on purpose, would you not look upon them in the same light?

I dont think youre a troll.. i do see what youre saying. but when you say ''I just do not agree that players using tactics and cooperation even across faction lines is wrong.'' do you realise that, that is exactly what win traders are doing and so if you think its ok you must see how that should mean you agree in principle with normal win trading?

EDIT: omg im so sorry, i just realised you were not talking to me, i genuinely apologise :)

Again, by that logic, win trading normally in bg's is just using their access to time and communication and so shouldnt be against the rules .. but it was made against the rules once it was found ppl were doing it, blizz didnt say ''ok well np's cos everyone can win trade' they said no thats not fair and banned ppl for it. I am saying that the principle that lead to win trading being made against the rules and almost everybody agree's it should be, are present here and the comparison imo is very easy to see.. the principle is the point. no, this exact situation is not listed specifically in the rules, but win trading wasnt either untill its discovery, this need to be discussed because its the same thing.