Nosleep

Hello Elysium staff, Yes here I am again asking about this, and even tagging a handful of mods as im sure you guys dont all work 24/7 :) And i want the best chance of this being seen, and responded to, by a mod/admin as soon as poss :) I wont do a huge intro where I say how grateful I am to your entire team and the project as a whole. and explain why this is so very important to me, i linked my previous post on this from 9 days ago and it explains it all in more detail.... but i am grateful and appreciative for evrything you do both what i know and dont know. :) BUT ... :p You said in the big original transfer announcement that ''there will be a follow up announcement very soon in regards to name conflicts'' .. so i waited a few weeks...then... 8 days ago I broke and just had to make a post [ https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/47785-name-clashes-upon-server-transfer/ ] as its so very important to me, and I got MOD response saying : ''There will be a follow up announcement very soon and we'll address all naming related issues. That being said, we understand your concerns. Stay tuned!'' for which i was very grateful btw :) So i waited another 8 days.... Then over a week later and only a few days from when we have to start choosing there was still absolutely nothing in regards to information on this. ... so I re-tagged the mod who responded in the same thread. Asking them politely if they could please inform us, regardless of what you have chosen, so that players who are gonna lose a name to a lvl 1 bank alt that hasn't logged on since February, can make an informed decision about what server to go to, as for some players, your decision on how to resolve name conflicts will be the deciding factor.... ...but no response (i know you guys dont work 24/7 hence why i tagged so many on this post). .. and it got trolled, and im worried it may just get lost or buried under all that troll poop. Now just hours away from the launch of the ''choice function'' there is still no word at all on this VERY (for some, i understand you may have much more difficult problems to deal with.. and as i have stated many times i truly appreciate all the work your entire team does, i really do!) VERY important decision . .. at this point its almost more important to know and be able to make a choice, than it is to know exactly what you decided and agree with it, if that makes sense. I have always said that im not trying to influence your decision, and nore could I even if I wanted to, but I just wish you guys would inform us of said decision as soon as you can... seems strange that you would not even have a decision on what you're going to do, even if the work on implementing it isnt finished yet.. you must at least know what direction you're going? Default - unlucky ZK players u lose ur name to an unplayed bank alt or char that hasnt logged on since feb? Custom - name change prompt given to one of the players based on a number of, or singular, factor(s)? Other - <Insert random reason of your choice here> Anything you decide will be, im sure, in the best interests of the servers on a whole, even if that means default ''unlucky ZK u lose to lvl 1 not played for 5 months'' as you decided the dev time required to create a function to choose was so much that it was time better spent on other area's of the project. It is just so VERY important to so many people. PLEASE inform us as soon as you can on whatever you have decided to do about name conflicts on this upcoming transfer! With respect, Nosleep.

Sorry, I didn't realise the tagging function was not meant to be used, I wont do that in the future. An idea on when you will inform us? Server choice starts tomorrow.

@Elysium Staff I am sure you are busy, but this is one of the biggest and only concerns for many many players. I appreciate everything you guys do and am a humble noob who knows nothing about the difficulties of coding or databases etc, but I ask you please.... Please let us know what you are doing regarding this issue as soon as you know! I thank you guys for all you do, its an amazing server.

i actually didnt at the time, for some reason i thought the 15 agi was always in game and the 25 agi was timbermaw rep that comes later, but my silly error of memory about enchant timeline is hardly the point... or the one i was making, i was simply saying that dal'rends at this point in the timeline, are some of the best... now on ZK that changed with the release of DM with the barborous blade being much better than dal'rends and imho ... 2x 1h with 1% crit on each, which are obtainable atm and b4, are better once you get to about 1k-1.1k AP self buffed. crit scales better. i was replying to someone who said that they can roll on xbow because of stats.... and i pointed how that dal'rends are very good so with that attitude (one i dont share, i pass on dal'rends even in pugs if someone melee needs it) they better be ready to lose rolls on dal'rends to hunters who need them, and like it. also i think 2x 1h is better, but atm, no 15 agi enchant and no oil yet either, at least on elysium/ZK ... it comes much later patch ... so atm, a 2h like barborous blade > 2x dal'rends

These are both true, however, if you do want to lvl a low lvl pet for any reason, its best to farm mobs that are the same lvl as your pet or slightly higher, or if your new pet is really low.. just dont use your pet or dont growl with it, and basically solo anything you can depending on how quickly you can kill them.... this isnt ideal, as if your pet is very low lvl compared to the area you are in, it will constantly agro everything from far away and u get swamped with mobs and your pet will die. I ideally, for speed and efficiency, you want to kill stuff that you could solo with no pet as easy as poss.. squishy casters for example, you want this because you want to have as little down time as poss (drinking/eating) and burning your mana on each mob will be slow and painful... and potentially expensive. Also, what i do, is based on my trade skills, i choose the mobs best suited, im LW.. so anything that i can skin is going to be a small/medium/large gold farm at the same time, this applies to anything you can think of that will drop good greys or cloth or whatever is selling atm on your AH... then, at least its not just a waste of your time as you could make gold or farm mats while your doing it.

Hello, im on zeth server, and my dark iron residue has been deleted from my bags?? Did admin delete/remove all dark iron residue?? i was saving them for rep. please help? thanks.

ohhh so i should never of had them to begin with.. lol :) thanks :)

Hey mafia... there maybe a merge between ZK and elysium... you better farm your devilsaurs now while you can... cos if we merge.. you are all finished!

u got thousands of devilsaur leather.. ok... and how many ppl still need the set? if i bring 300, they will buy mine... then you guys can vendor your 3k devilsaur leathers :D

bring a few hundred devilsaur skins and flood your market, driving prices down? that will be a nice start... then drink your tears.

I am saying that they better prey we dont merge.. cos if we do, they are all gonna get ganked, hard!

or you could just roll hunter and actually be a decent class. hunter > all. edit: it depends on what you want to do at 60 .. if you want to raid in a good guild then it looks like the lock/mage ratio favors lock atm.. if u want to farm and pvp, then its very subjective whats best, prob mage but thats debatable though im sure :P

Mafia group photo.. taken in un'goro a few days ago :P

Remember that when hunters roll on dal'rends cos they are some of the best weaps in game atm, 50AP and crit with 15 agi ench.. untill 25 agi on 2H comes out, some would argue they are close to Bis when hit capped, but thats debatable. (i would personally pref 2x assassination blades with 15 agi) i would pass on dal'rends if there was a melle in the group who needed, but thats just me... if you dont work like that, then you have to accept when other ppl take your gear. ''just accept it, thats how it is, rogues get outrolled on dal'rends by hunters... live with it.'' lol

death to gold sellers and buyers!! If you see a bot farming, report it.. but dont stop there... tell your friends.. kill the bot.. then corpse camp it.. then mail the bot a nice message for when they log on to see how much they DIDNT farm hahah ''no soup for you!!'' :P

There is also the argument that in wow... gold = time time = gold they are both true... but both are valuable to different people in different amounts.. there is no standard value associated to either of them for all people. so when you say that a BOE item has exactly the same 'value' to all group members, not only are you taking a general concept of value and applying it to the specific situation of greed/need for PVE gear in groups ...... (And i do understand the concept of ''defence against the ninja so all need to be safe'' but thats a specific worry not related to the concept of an items value in this context atm.) ........but you are really saying that its gold value is equal to all.. if that is true.. then its not an equal 'value' to all.. its gold value is equal to all but for the person who can equip it, it has an extra value of being an 'imediately' usable PVE upgrade ... so you could argue that they have more than just a gold value for it.. making it have more value to them than to others? gold value + equipable PVE upgrade > just gold value? i think there is an argument there. it is deffo not a 100% open shut case just cos ppl say its gold value is equal for all... i think you could also argue that it shares a principle with the reason we all agree its NOT ok to need BOP items that are MS upgrades just to sell / DE them or for off spec, because the gold / none MS upgrade value of an item is not the only thing that denotes an items value so its not right to take it from someone just cos u value/want its convertable worth? (direct upgrade = the item its self is the upgrade and indirect upgrade = it can be converted at a later date into an upgrade. Does that difference matter? prob very subjective .. but i hold that if u say there is no difference... then any item becomes an indirect upgrade or part of 1 because it can be sold to eventually become an upgrade later, even if its value is less than the cost of the upgrade you eventually get. Which is the same as needing BOP's to eventually buy an upgrade if there is no difference between direct and indirect upgrade.. and all items are indirect upgrades.. so then all items are needed equally. So the most logical conclusion is that there is a very big difference between direct and indirect upgrade, because the consequences of them being equal opens the floor to needing anything to sell (even MS BOP) to add to your pile of gold for eventual *indirect* upgrades) ... and thats my point here.... because value is a very subjective term.. when you try to apply it to the basic need/greed for items in a PVE setting, its far too open to subjective perception, and so its very easy to show how its 'value' may not be equal at all ...which could obviously lead to never ending subjective arguments about its value to each person. that is why since the dawn of wow... need has been for anyone who can use and equip the item when its also an upgrade for PVE specifically... and greed is for all other potential uses. Otherwise there would only be need and pass.... because every single item in the game.. no matter how hard it is to get and no matter what its gold value may or may not be.. every single item in the game could be argued to be needed for some random silly/fun/serious reason or another, and without separation between perceived value and specific value for PVE, it would be totally unnecessary to have need/greed/pass at all. ''i need end game bops to DE because i value lvl'ing my enchanting more or equal to how much you value getting full PVE BIS and moving on to the next tier when it comes out'' ... .. 'IF' general value is whats important.. then that example would be a fair argument.. dont you see how silly it is? 'value' is not what is meant in the greed/need system .. we all need everything for something... its obviously implied and for most has been an obvious standard rule.. that in PVE instances.. need means you need the item to equip as a PVE upgrade.. and everything else is greed. because it avoids the subjective concept of 'general value' which is obviously flawed as I might value RP more than you value server 1st boss kills. TLDR: ''general value'' is far too subjective a term to be used as a definition for need/greed when the item is an upgrade for MS PVE....And ''direct upgrade is equal to indirect upgrade'' means everything in the whole game is needed equally by all. ... both are very flawed idea's / concepts with dire consequences.

Subjective reasoning being used to defend your constant childish name calling attitude. gg And, i never said i 'wanted' you to argue with my point of view.. i said that if you did in a normal manner, that would be ok, where 'ok' is being used in the context of me saying that rational mature debate is fine and childish insults are not. Thats you replying to the part of my post where i say ''just because an item has a high gold value when sold, doesnt mean you need it over someone for whom its an upgrade.'' ... but youre wrong, other people in this thread have said exactly that, i made counter arguments against that idea. Your ''what we are saying'' is a very arrogant statement when 'we' as you put it, is only the people who made the same statements as you and not the 'other' people who said exactly what i attempted to counter. Again, you miss/ignore the context of my statements that were towards someone who said that they need the BOE so they can sell it then go and buy a BOE from AH. I was arguing against a very specific situation made by someone (not your general 'value concept'). But as you have already shown ''we'' from your PoV is the whole thread, more arrogance, but then your constant childish name calling shows that, so im not surprised. I just did try and show that in my last post, I made arguments about a general principle standard (principles of the issue, are something you have previously stated in this thread are whats important) of greed/need for PVE gear in a group/raid envirement ... your response to my attempts to show that gold is not a need when being spoken about in the context of greed/need for gear was?? ... ...you claim how sure you are about me being a ''braindead schizo.'' and avoid the entire post lol. So after many many demands/requests by you, in multiple posts in this thread, for people to give an argument for why gold is not a need... when you finally get an attempt.. instead of giving a counter argument, you name call.. standard lol. Subjective opinion, and while it may well be true in most cases, it is again an example of where you take my argument against someone else who made a very specific situational argument, to which i made attempts to counter, and you twist/blindly take it to be something else that you then strawman argue against. I argued the principle of the concept, because someone made a specific argument that its OK to need gear thats an upgrade for someone 'IF' they can with that gold once its sold, go buy the BOE they need from AH. I actually made a few arguments/examples, (like the guy in ful BiS gear who doesnt need an upgrade from AH) where i attempt to show why that very specific argument is 1: not valid and 2: leads to very silly consequences, but you either missed them, or ignored them, took me out of context and assumed i was arguing against something you had said, i guess. Once again? maybe you have said this to others, or in general, before, but not to me.. but whatever. This is the part i attempt to show is you taking a general principle of ''need = your need for the PVE usage of the item in question'' and ''greed = any and all other potential uses for that item'' and attempting to side step that long held principle of group need/greed by applying a general idea that we all need gold for random things in game. and I say its a semantic argument taken out of context.. your reply was to ignore that point and call me names. You may need ''aquadynamic fish attractors'' and you may need RP gear for fun... but in this very specific context of group/raid loot that i was presenting and had a very well known principle standard.. saying you need fishing lures just as much as someone needs a PVE item upgrade is the most pathetic attempt to twist an argument out of context using semantics and selfishness i think i have ever seen. Indeed, logic dictates that you 1: pay attention to the context someone is talking about before you start with a flurry of childish insults and strawman/semantics arguments.. and 2: Pay attention to 'who' they are talking to. I followed the logic layed down by both the points i raised and the very specific points someone else raised that i attempted to counter/debunk. you? well you just insulted like a child... again. ...but at least youre consistent lol

you being convinced of something doesnt make it true.. its just your subjective opinion.. but then your childishly insulting and subjective opinion is all you ever talk about. i could say that i am convinced youre both a troll and a 12 year old.. but that doesnt make it true.

Why so angry, you really are just nothing but insults. and for the record, repeating your selfish subjective out of context point, doesnt prove it. need in the greed/need roll context has been usage of the item in question, forever.... just because you can argue that you need gold for other things in the game, doesnt side step the obvious standard that has held since the beginning of wow. so.. with that norm in mind, a norm that has held since vanilla retail, when someone says gold is not a need.. you stating that 'gold is a need' is playing semantics with a general principle held for 12 years in this game. As soon as you say gold is a need = to gear upgrades, you open a can of worms allowing for any amount of gold to be a need. .. or do you have a subjective limit on where we draw the line? need is when you need the item...... you dont need gold.. you want gold... gold is not needed to get most items, they can be farmed or the mats can be farmed .. but you want the gold (greed) because that is an easy way to get your fishing lures.. you dont need gold to get items.. you dont need gold for almost anything.... gold is greed so because you are too lazy to go farm cosmetic RP gear and you want to buy it from AH .. you say that your need to be lazy is = to their need for the item in question that is a PVE upgrade.. remember, in group/raid instances.. greed/need on gear has been generally accepted to mean the item is what you need.. not its value. the item in question being needed for PVE usage is 'need' .. and its value for either sale/alts/RP/fun/PVP basically all other instances where it might be used, is 'greed' if you dont agree with that long held basic principle, thats your right as we all have the right to act however we want, even if thats being a selfish greedy little bitch ... but your attempt to use a completely out of context argument where u say u need its value because that value is a need based on your selfish personal subjective principles.. when the standard held by the vast majority is to the contrary .. its not an argument, its just you trying to defend your selfishness with semantics. now, if you want to state a basic rule at the start of your pug run that all BOE's of high value will be needed by all.. then thats fair enough, ppl can choose to agree or not, but to just expect everyone to be ok with your selfishness is just .. well.. ignorant. if all ppl need an item.. and 1 person wins, thats fine..just as in the OP of this thread, they all need.. 1 person wins.. 1 guy is upset he didnt win.. tough luck. but when you say gold is a need equal to other ppl's upgrades, in this context, you are just taking the need for gold in a general sense (i need gold to buy noggenfrogger pots to cloud surf) and then applying it to a long held standard within group/raid environment and saying that because you 'need' cosmetic items for RP then thats an equal need to someone PVE gear upgrade.... that... is not only a semantic bulshit argument taken completely out of context.. it also shows a level of selfishness thats hard to understand. i feel there is a subjective opinion about the value of gold in this game.. for some ppl.. its not worth being a complete cunt for it.. and for others.. well.. they would take BiS gear from ppl just to sell it for fishing supplies.

i dont and never insisted you accept it from the get go, i have repeatedly asked that you read the points as they back up my premise. i state my premise at the start and then go on to explain it. when you refuse to read why i think what i think and just claim my point is flawed becasue you disagree with the premise, that shows an unwillingness to engage in the topic and you just cover your ears and eyes shouting ''but yore wrong, i dont need to hear or read anything you say cos youre just wrong'' kinda like a religious fundamentalist? screaming that evolution is wrong so when you start with the premise that its true then i dont need to read why you think its true.. cos i dont think evolution is real so why bother.

not because you dont agree.. but because you state that my points are not worth reading.. even though its my points that show my premise.. hmmmm now you claim im calling you a troll for reasons you fabricate.. thats strawman isnt it? i even explain why i suggest youre a troll. and you still claim its for this bogus reason.

so you admit you dont bother to read the points i use to show my premise and just declare its flawed. nice. youre either a troll.. or .. well i cant see much else, cos telling ppl they are wrong without reading what they say, and cherry picking 1 liners, is the act of the troll.

no, and that 1 statement wasnt trying to do that either.. but.. the entire rest of my post was.. you know, the bit you chose to delete when you quoted me? now pretend i said more than the 1st line of my post, and answer again.

needing a BOE to sell it on AH so that you can eventually buy an upgrade yourself from AH, is needing for gold.. it is taking the items gold value and converting it, eventually, into an item. so if i said ''gold value'' when i paraphrased what youre saying it wasnt to twist what youre saying to help my PoV, it was because when youre going to sell the item.. it is the gold value of the item youre needing (so i could argue that when you say 'value' instead of 'gold value' you are purposefully trying to use semantics to prop up your point)... also the item may not be on AH so the guy who needs it cant just go buy it.. if the gold value of the BOE that you take from someone for whom its an upgrade, is less than the cost of the item you say you need from AH..... (if you need something from AH.. why havnt you bought it yet? because you dont have enough gold? well nore does the person who's item just dropped.. but that gets replied to with ''if he hasnt got the gold thats his prob'' but not theirs when asked the same question in reverse? hmmmm) .... so if its less than the value of the item you will eventually buy from AH... how many BOE's wil you take from ppl before you have enough gold to buy the item you need?? how is that any different than taking someone BOP upgrade many times so as to eventually have enough gold to buy from AH?? oh cos the BOP isnt on AH? well what if the BOE isnt there at present? the whole idea is just silly. and what about the buy in ful BiS gear?? no answer to that?

thats a very strange post, you claim my logic is flawed but you give no reason why. you say that needing BOP and needing BOE is precisely the same thing, which is my point. and your statement about it being a case of it having the same gold value to all, is exactly what my post, and the bit you just quoted, is referring to... i even give examples of how that premise of ''its worth a lot of gold, thats why i need it'' is ridiculous. as for you saying that anything that follows from my flawed logic, (which you do not even attempt to explain why its flawed), must also be fatally flawed, the post you are quoting is actually giving examples of the consequences of your point... and showing that your flawed logic leads to ridiculous consequences and situations, like the guy in ful BiS who 'must' not be allowed to roll of the BOE cos he cant get an upgrade form AH, hes in full BiS. you dont bother to answer anything i say, you just tell me im wrong, then repeat yourself.