Razorwynd

incorrect, it stacks to three now

Like many other people, I have a spreadsheet that attempts to express feral DPS in terms of mathematical equations and a few input variables. This morning I think I figured out a way to incorporate Blood Frenzy into the calculation. To my surprise, Blood Frenzy greatly increases the value of CRIT and subsequently AGI. Given my above assumptions: 1% crit is worth 31.13 AP!! (Hit is worthless since I assume you are hit capped) This would make your 41.8 AGI worth (41.8+ 31*(41.8/20)) = 106.9 AP whereas the 44 STR is only worth 105.6 AP. So if my spreadsheets are a reasonable approximation of reality then it is practically dead even!

There is no simple rule here to answer you question. The question of Str vs Agi is really one about AP vs Crit. The more AP you have the more valuable Crit is and the CRIT you have the more valuable AP is... they are like the yin and the yang of melee DPS and you really want a balance of both...But I will try to answer you question, which will require me to make a few assumptions about your char and play style. Given these quoted assuption, then 44 Str would results in a DPS increase of 4.1% and 41.8 Agi would yeild a 3.4% increase in DPS Not sure you would really be able to detect the difference between the two...

I am so glad to see that someone else is thinking very analytically about this type of stuff. I have my own, much less polished, spreadsheet. Having invested a lot of time thinking about this, I can already spot one massive difference between yours and mine. You have the value of %hit is fixed at 15 AP...why would you statically weight %hit at 15 AP in a spreadsheet that is intended to be dynamic? Imagine a very simple world where a feral druid only auto attacks and is not hit capped... If your character tab show that your non-crit non-glancing auto attacks hit for 200 damage then 1% hit would mean 1% of your misses are converted into non-crit non-glancing hits which amounts to a 2 dps increase. We all know that 2 dps amounts to 28 AP, which is a lot more than the 15 AP in the spreadsheet. This is an indication that %hit should not be static (unlike AP the value of both CRIT and HIT depend on how much damage you do)! And since the aim of your project was to have something that was dynamic then I suggest you consider making %hit dynamic as well. I look forward to chatting more about this in the future!

awesome thanks!

GCD in cat form is 1 sec i think

Hello Again @Rhena, I made a suggestion a number of months ago for an alternative way to display buffs/debuffs associated with the unit frames... ...and you kindly replied: I am sure you are still super busy, but I thought I would plant another seed in your head for how to better filter buffs and debuffs associated with the amazing Luna Unit frames. It seems like a quick and functional solution might be to only display buffs (and debuffs) whose remaining duration is shorter than a user-specified time. All the buffs I want to see above my player unit frame are generally shorter than 60 seconds and all the buffs I never want to see above my player unit frame are vastly longer than this. I think that sure a feature would serve to greatly minimize the clutter around player frames that can occur when fully raid buffed.

I know my response is a little dated but DMC: Maelstrom has 1PPM This actually means it is trash on feral druids since it uses the attack speed of our current form, which is 1.0 in cat form resulting in a measly 1.6666% chance to proc per hit (white or yellow).

A couple of noob Warrior questions here... 1.) Do extra attacks from: Sword Specialization, Wind Fury, and Hand of Justice provide rage just like a basic auto attack would? 2.) Where can i find a good resource for how extra attack procs are handled on Eylsium? Specifically with regard to chaining together different extra attack procs or procing multiple extra attacks from a single attack. Thanks Razorwynd

Thanks! and Thanks!

Nice work Steppenwolf One request if I may: Mugger's Belt, as an alternative for Onslaught Girdle for the dagger furry warriors out there. If I knew how to work in Excel I would try to make the change myself, but I don't. If you could explain to me how to add new items, I would gladly try to do it myself (since it is a pretty unusual request). Cheers!

Is there any way to independently adjust the size of the text used for buff/debuff timers and those used for cooldowns? Right now, they appear to be linked. To make matters worse, I can not use omniCC for cooldown timers either because some cooldown timers appear above the pfUI timers (Barkskin; 31 seconds) and others appear below (Innervate; 6 minutes). Also, would it be possible to use the same cooldown color scheme for the buffs and debuffs located by at the minimap? It bothers me that they are all the same ugly yellow orange color. Finally, if anyone has any suggestions for how I can make my druidbar and ItemRack addons fit the pfUI theme a little better, they would be greatly appreciated!

Why would you ever try to get a white hit in between powershifting just to get a chance at a single wf proc? This is just silly! It would mean that you wouldnt have weightstone on (+8 damage) which i am sure would be a huge loss in DPS. *Not to mention the fact that white attacks in caster form pause your white attacks made in cat form until your caster form swingtimer resets, which in general is also a decrease in DPS...as a red druid I will happily agree that if you wanna do max DPS go blue.

This WINTER?!?...

@Hummi could you tell me what version of DPSmate you use to track your glancing blows? They don't show up for me with the newest version (b124), and I would love to have access to the same information that you have.

Thanks @WobLight!

Same! We miss you here on the forums!

Good luck with the exams! And let me know if/how I can help.

but this post seems to have a functioning version?! what could the problem be?

my DPS mate is not showing glancing blows... but i see that other peoples does keep track of glancing blows... what am i doing wrong?

@Hummi.... Thank you so much for this post. DPS mate (btw what version of DPS mate is this... it looks different than mine) provides exactly the kinda of information I think more people need to look at in order to min-max (even if you said your raid doesnt, you are doing a pretty good job). You clearly have a good understanding of how this works and you also helped me figure out for myself how rogues should itemize. From this one can clearly tell that you are close, but not quite, crit capped (still 6% of all white attacks are missed). Hypothetically speaking here, you could swap 3% hit for 3% crit and see an increase in DPS (as I stated before this is because %crit applies to both white and yellow attack whereas anything over 6% hit, because of weapon skill, only applies to white attacks). As you said BB would have been better than DM trinket in this encounter. Now this isn't always so easy to accomplish given the way stats are allocated, but right you priority is %crit rather than %hit. In summary, optimal DPS occurs at the exact point where you no longer have any white "hits" just white "crits" and white "glances." Thanks!

I never said %hit was useless... I said %hit is only as valuable as %crit when: (1) you are not yellow hit capped (VERY easy to accomplish) or (2) when you are crit capped on your white hits (how easy is this to accomplish does it requires world buffs). If you are not crit capped then %hit becomes a lot less valuable than crit. Maybe you could provide me with some example stats from your character to help me better understand. For instance what is your white DPS and what is your Yellow DPS on a standard single target boss encounter?... Broodlord maybe? How much %crit and %hit do you have when you are raid buffed but without world buffs? What is your weapon skill? I have no idea what what these numbers should look like for a typical rogue in without BIS gear clearing BWL. Could you provide me with some examples?

Not at all. I am looking for an explanation for why %hit is valued nearly as high as %crit in all these gear lists. As I explained in my original post i feel like at %hit should be only 50% as useful as %crit.

Why do rogues value %hit so much even after the yellow hit cap? From combat alone you get 6 weapon skill (which for non-humans lowers the chance to miss by 3%) and 5% hit, which means you only need 1% hit to reach the yellow damage hit cap. After that %hit only serves to turn white misses into white hits, and from what I can tell, white damage is only like 40-50% of a rogues total damage output. Since %crit applies both yellow and white damage, it seems reasonable to conclude that after the first 1% hit all additional %hit is, at best, only half as valuable %crit (until you start to acquire more than 35% crit since that is where your white crit cap would be with only 1% hit from gear) From what I can tell a lot of BIS lists rate %hit and % crit very similarly... and this seems very wrong. What am I missing?

You are clicking to cast spells?!