Roxanne Flowers

I see a lot of people doing this and I honestly have to question the wisdom of doing it. As a Paladin you'll be getting a point or two of Strength almost every Level Up, but you'll hardly ever gain any Intellect at Level Ups. Almost all of your Mana gains, as a Paladin are just from gaining Levels, not from gaining Intellect. My Paladin just reached Level 34 this morning and has like ~120 Strength (with gear) and less than 50 Intellect (more like 43). 10% of 120 is how much? 10% of 40 is how much? My point being that for a LONG time, the itemization on your Mail/Plate armor items is going to be geared for Strength and Stamina, not for Intellect. Strength will not only give you Attack Power, letting you do more damage, but it will also increase the Block value of your Shield, improving its protective worth to you, meaning less damage taken when you successfully Block. I don't know about anyone else, but my thought is that for the same amount of talent points spent in the Holy tree, I'd rather get +3 Strength than get +1 Intelligence. Your mileage may vary, of course. Now, that all changes when you're looking at the endgame and grinding for BiS and pre-BiS gear, because by then you'll have enough attribute stats for that +10% to have something to multiply in useful quantities, but while you're leveling the return on investment in Divine Intellect is really quite negligible. It's there, don't get me wrong, but it's NOT MUCH in comparison to the alternative.

It may be of academic interest to some that thanks to what was being talked about in a different thread, I developed a non-Dagger version of my 12/8/31 build that might be interesting for PvP and raiding. Dagger Ambush 12/8/31 build. Non-Dagger 12/8/31 build. The Dagger Ambush Hemorrhage build includes: 3/3 Initiative (75% chance of +1 Combo Point on some openers from Stealth) 3/3 Improved Ambush (+45% critical hit chance using Ambush). The Non-Dagger Hemorrhage build includes: 2/2 Sleight of Hand (-2% chance to be critically hit in melee or by ranged attacks and 20% more Threat reduction using Feint) 2/2 Elusiveness (-1.5 minutes cooldown on Vanish and Blind) 2/2 Heightened Senses (-4% chance to be hit by ranged attacks and spells, increased Stealth detection). With the Non-Dagger Hemorrhage build, the attack from Stealth is either going to be Garrote, Cheap Shot or Sap building to Rupture, Kidney Shot, Slice and Dice or Eviscerate as finishers and could make for an interesting style of "knock 'em around" game play if using a pair of Hurd Smashers (of all things) as your Dual Wield weapons where the intent is to control your opponent using stuns/knockdown.

The only reason to go for a Fist Weapon spec would be to support a particular (presumably end game) (pair of) Fist Weapon(s). You'll note that the itemization of Fist Weapons in the game is ... a short list: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?items=2.13 Furthermore, there aren't a whole lot of really GOOD Fist Weapons in that list that are particularly suited towards what a Rogue needs from their weapons. Exceptions to that rule would include the Primal Blessing set from Zul'Gurub, or scoring a pair of Hurd Smashers for yourself so you can proc lots of 2 second knockdowns. The downside to using Fist Weapons is that they're "fast" like Daggers, they use a completely different talent than Daggers in the Combat tree (so no real overlap) for +1% chance to critically hit per talent point, and you can't use Ambush or Backstab with Fist Weapons.

Look if you're going to be all ... ... then you really ought to have courage in your convictions and go all the way with it. That means ... And why would you do that (I hear you cry)? So if you want to do a Hemorrhage build while going all in on Dual Sword(-chucks), you're going to want a raiding build that looks a lot like this ... http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fZ0xEz0mzxbZxoeohhoo ... and needless to say, doing this with a Human Rogue would probably get you the most mileage out of the build. And why is that? Well, because ...

Yes, the auto attack speed is 1.00 and the global cooldown of Pet Skills is 1.5 seconds (assuming the Pet casts a Skill that invokes a global cooldown on the Pet). This means that a Tamed Broken Tooth can attack every 1.0 second on auto while ALSO casting Claw every ~1.5-2 seconds or so in addition. Bestial Discipline ought to increase Focus Recovery per tick to exceed the cost of using Claw, meaning (slightly) net positive recovery while using Claw every 2 seconds ... all while auto attacking every 1.0 seconds (until Frenzy procs, at which point Broken Tooth attacks even faster). Net result is a LOT of dice rolling in extremely rapid succession, all of which is doing pushback on spellcasting.

So, let's break this down. What makes Broken Tooth so desirable over other Pets? 1.00 attack speed offers greatest synergy with Frenzy talent, which is 26-30 talent points deep into Beast Mastery, and the greatest degree of pushback on spellcasters. Is Broken Tooth the only Pet in the game with a 1.00 attack speed? NO. The Bloodseeker Bat and the Frenzied Bloodseeker Bat found in Zul'Gurub also have a 1.00 attack speed too. What can Cats do that Bats can't? Cats can Claw and Prowl. Claw is a Focus Dump skill that will drain Focus as fast as it can be recovered, leaving your Cat with low amounts of Focus at nearly all times. Bestial Discipline in the Beast Mastery tree will increase the rate at which Claw will be used on autocast. What can Bats do that Cats can't? Screech. Bats don't have a Focus Dump skill and will thus always have plenty of Focus available to them since their Focus Recovery will always exceed their Focus Costs over time due to cooldowns, so Bestial Discipline in the Beast Mastery tree is essentially wasted on Bats. What's the difference in Diet for Cats and Bats? Fish and Meat for Cats ... Fruit and Fungus for Bats. In PvP, fast kills are often given the highest priority so putting Claw on Broken Tooth is the way to generate the greatest damage in the shortest amount of time while ALSO causing the highest amount of spellcasting pushback possible. This then explains why Broken Tooth is so highly prized for PvP, while also being particularly good for PvE as well, especially for Beast Masters. Broken Tooth is an "all in" on Offense styled Pet that is just about completely optimized for PvP. Extra bonus points for having Broken Tooth Prowl for a Night Elf Hunter using Shadowmeld so as to ambush from stealth. The two Bloodseeker Bats from Zul'Gurub can Screech, which offers a significant Attack Power debuff, making these Pets a bit more "defensive" in nature than Broken Tooth's "all in" on offense capabilities. The Screech debuff is MUCH more effective against NPCs than it is against PCs, due to the way that the Attack Power calculations differ greatly for NPCs and PCs. This difference makes the Bloodseeker Bat types better in PvE than in PvP relative to the performance profile of Broken Tooth.

Well ... yes ... but because of here Hemorrhage is in the Subtlety tree (at 21 talents deep) there are a HUGE number of varieties of builds that can make use of it. You can do 30/0/21 builds. You can do 0/30/21 builds. You can do the 12/8/31 build that I'm planning to use for my Rogue on Darrowshire (currently only Level 34 and loving Hemorrhage) which builds on a cornerstone of fast combo point building and finisher cycles using Daggers for Ambush. You can do Sword builds with Hemorrhage. You can do Mace builds with Hemorrhage. You can do Ambush Dagger builds with Hemorrhage. You can do Fist Weapon builds with Hemorrhage (although WHY you'd want to is left as an exercise for the reader). The one thing you probably won't be using if you've got Hemorrhage is Backstab, except in some edge case circumstances (for quick assist kills), since generally speaking for the amount of Energy spent you can Hemorrhage twice for the price of one Backstab (or even three Hemorrhage attacks versus one Gouge+Backstab combo) without needing to worry about positioning for a back attack (Hemorrhage let's you "front stab" things in the face) making Hemorrhage a lot easier to use. So as far as talent builds for Hemorrhage go, it really boils down to whether or not you plan to use Daggers ... since if you don't then you'll want to shuffle talent points in Subtlety to not invest in Improved Ambush (for what should be obvious reasons). Other than that, you're looking at a 0/0/17 plus 4 more points in Subtlety build in order to get to Hemorrhage. After that, you'll still have 30 talent points to spend wherever you'd like.

You need to kill mobs for your Pet to gain XP to raise their (combat) Level, all the way up to Level 60. You need to keep your Pet fed and Happy to raise their Loyalty, all the way up to Loyalty 6 (Best Friend). The former requires combat. The latter requires time spent logged in with the Pet "out" beside you (and in a Happy state condition). These are different things.

Dragonscale Specialization will allow you to craft Mail using Leatherworking. Tribal and Elemental Specializations do not offer Mail levels of armor. Since Hunters can wear Mail armor at Level 40+, the obvious recommendation is obvious would be Dragonscale Specialization.

Fun fact about the Heavy Junkboxes turn in for Ravenholdt reputation ... you can take every item except 1 from the Heavy Junkbox. Once you know the resale values of the vendor bait items you tend to find in the Heavy Junkboxes, it starts becoming second nature to loot everything BUT the least valuable item from them (so the Heavy Junkbox doesn't despawn) which then lets you carry the almost empty Heavy Junkboxes back to Ravenholdt for turn in AND vendor the most valuable stuff that was in them. Just yet another way for Rogues to "work the system" by being clever and paying attention to what's important (i.e. PROFIT!!!).

So ... your burden of proof is that there needs to be a youtube video posted prior to 2007 that shows a character with Mining skill making a circuit through a zone mining nodes that vary from time to time on repeated visits over time to specific nodes, documenting that what spawns at a particular node point is variable. I'm wondering if I can count on one hand stump the number of youtube videos posted within the appropriate time frame that show the level of proof that you're demanding ... primarily because that sort of regression testing of gameplay would be BORING to watch and only of use to QA testers needing to prove to future generations of private servers that this was a thing. In fact, I've just done a search of youtube for videos right now, and the oldest date I can find is 8 years ago, which easily falls outside the "posted prior to 2007" date range required. So there aren't any videos in existence covering this subject matter, near as I can tell. So we're going to need to look at other sources than gameplay footage. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mining Okay, that's suggestive, but not conclusive. So the patch notes for Mining skill also don't speak (positively or negatively) about rare nodes ever being randomized. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Silver_Vein https://wow.gamepedia.com/Iron_Ore https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mithril_Ore https://wow.gamepedia.com/Truesilver_Deposit Depending on how ... needlessly pedantic ... you want to be, due to the differing verbiage used for each of these entries, it can be argued (I think it's a Bad Faith argument, but still) that Silver, Gold and Truesilver nodes ought to be their own specific spawn point nodes that will ALWAYS spawn as exactly the same thing every single time with no variability whatsoever. My contention is that the correct/proper/intended behavior is for a selected subset of mining nodes to randomly spawn different types of nodes. Basically something like this (numbers are made up to illustrate the point since I don't know what they should be): 100% chance Tin (some nodes, not all) 90% chance Tin / 10% chance Silver (remaining nodes) 100% chance Iron (some nodes, not all) 90% chance Iron / 10% chance Gold (remaining nodes) 100% chance Mithril (some nodes, not all) 80% chance Mithril / 10% chance Gold / 10% chance Truesilver (remaining nodes) 65% chance Thorium / 35% chance Rich Thorium (some nodes, not all) 60% chance Thorium / 30% chance Rich Thorium / 10% chance Truesilver (remaining nodes) That's NOT what we have right now on Elysium servers as of this past week on Darrowshire. Instead, we've got this kind of a distribution for mining nodes: 100% chance Tin 100% chance Silver 100% chance Iron 100% chance Gold 100% chance Mithril 100% chance Truesilver Since I'm not high enough Level to venture into areas with Thorium nodes, I don't know if the Rich Thorium nodes are randomized or not (so they don't always appear in exactly the same spots), but as of reaching Desolace/Stranglethorn Vale/Arathi Highlands the NO Variance In Mining Node Spawns gives every indication of being in effect in every single zone that I have visited. Silver nodes are ALWAYS Silver. Gold nodes are ALWAYS Gold. There is no "randomness" to their spawning. There is no "rarity" to their chance to spawn in, since these nodes NEVER spawn as Tin or Iron (respectively). The mining nodes that spawn along the northern mountains in Arathi Highlands from Northfold Manor to Hammerfall, and there are about 2 dozen of them, will ALL ... every single one of them ... spawn as Iron every single time without fail. You will never find a single node of Gold Ore along the feet of those mountains (or at least I haven't on multiple trips for Ore). There is simply no randomized variable checking involved in the spawning of those mining nodes, in this zone or in any other zone.

Counter-proposal: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#hE0zVcGqoxi0dV Swap Elemental Warding for Eye of the Storm. Swap Improved Lightning Shield for Guardian Totems. As you specified, Rafale, battle strategy is to be a melee range spellcaster using either a 2h Axe or a 2h Mace going for lots of talent procs (Eye of the Storm, Elemental Devastation, Flurry). In addition to The Usual Suspects you specified in the 2h Axe category, it looks like there might also be some rather interesting 2h Maces that could be obtained too, since some of them have interesting procs to use on trash and/or are spellcaster weapons. Earthshaker Fist of Cenarius Hammer of Ji'zhi Maul of the Redeemed Crusader The Unstoppable Force

Hemorrhage rank 3 adds up to +7 Damage to physical damage hits. This debuff lasts for 30 hits or 15 seconds, whichever comes first. 30 hits for +7 damage is +210 Damage per debuff. I'm just going to assume that it will take less than 15 seconds for a 40 man raid to hit a boss 30 times with physical damage attacks. Sustained over infinite time, a Rogue can (reliably) use Hemorrhage every 4 seconds due to (base) Energy recovery. If the raid is hitting a boss with physical damage attacks 30 times in 4 seconds or less, which is possible depending on raid composition, then Hemorrhage is adding 210/4=52.5 DPS (which is then reduced by Armor for direct hits but not for Bleed DoTs, which I presume will not be present due to the aforementioned debuff cap) every 4 seconds or so. roughly speaking. That extra damage gets attributed to every member of the raid who is doing physical damage. You really only need "one" Hemorrhage Rogue in a raid in order to get the benefit for all of the physical damage dealers. In that respect, it's a bit like having someone swing a Nightfall Axe so that the spellcasters can all do more damage. So the "break even" point on having Hemorrhage in a raid is whether or not your 40 man raid will deal 30 hits of physical damage in 4 seconds or less. If it does, then Hemorrhage can be a benefit, since it will reliably increase physical damage output of the entire raid on the Subtlety Rogue's target. If the raid can't hit something 30 times with physical damage every 4 seconds, then the "efficiency" of the Hemorrhage debuff loses efficiency in terms of throughput, since some of its benefit is being lost/wasted over long damage cycles. So it really comes down to a question of whether or not an extra +3150 Physical Damage Per Minute (+210 every 4 seconds for 60 seconds) is something that your 40 man raid can make use of ... or not. If it can't, then that'll be because you don't have enough Physical Damage attackers hitting the target fast enough to get the most mileage out of the debuff. It really is all about priorities.

I have to say, I'm always seeing these specs that use Divine Intellect to increase total Intellect by +10% and ... to me it always feels like a case of "twice nothing is still nothing" for those 5 talent points. I guess it really just depends on whether you're planning to wear Plate or wear Cloth I suppose. Cloth has tons of Intellect littered around here, there and everywhere ... but Plate items? Particularly crafted Plate items? Not so much really, as finding Plate with Intellect mods on it can be a "fun" grind in and of itself. Heck, I'm just looking at the attribute bumps I get every time my Paladin levels up and I basically almost NEVER get a +1 Intellect boost. Strength I'll get out the yang at almost every level up, but Intellect? Not so much. Now, once again, I'm sure that this is all completely different once you're dealing with the 55-60 game, as well as playing in endgame raids and building your way to BiS for everything. That's a completely different environment. But honestly, I really don't see all that much use or even return on investment for Divine Intellect prior to Level 50 (or so), while Divine Strength will carry you FAR while you level up from 10-50. Not saying you're "wrong" with your build there JC, so much as wanting to point out that it might be less than optimal as a strategy for leveling up, while at the same time being a decent strategy for playing when approaching the endgame.

Yeah, but it only works if you've got a "disposable" Pet you don't mind abandoning in order to do it.

Easiest thing to do is to create a macro that will switch your Pet to Passive mode whenever you activate Drain Soul so that you can kill two stones with one bird.

It's ... complicated. Improved Voidwalker will increase the effects of Torment, Consume Shadows, Sacrifice and Suffering spells. That's it. The increase to Torment (single target) and Suffering (AoE) will increase the threat generated by those spells by +10% per talent point, which is not negligible when it comes to improving the aggro magnet potential of your Voidwalker. If you want your Voidwalker to be able to withstand more punishment before folding, you need to be spending talent points in Fel Stamina to give all your Pets a greater max Health. If you want to be able to heal your Voidwalker more effectively/efficiently so they can survive longer, you need to be investing in Improved Health Funnel (which really makes a difference). Improved Voidwalker will augment the speed at which your Voidwalker can heal their own damage after combat is over, such that they'll basically be able to heal themselves back to full Health within the 10 second channel time with ticks to spare (usually) as long as they're not under a DoT. Sacrifice just puts a bubble on your Warlock, but Improved Voidwalker investment will increase that bubble's capacity to absorb incoming damage. If you want your Voidwalker to dish out more melee damage, you need to be investing in Unholy Power ... and if you want them to be able to absorb punishment even better than any of your other Pets, you want to be investing in Master Demonologist ... at which point you might as well go 31 talents deep into the Demonology tree and get Soul Link, since you're very nearly there already anyway. The counterpart to all of this is ... how are you USING your Voidwalker, tactically. Do you let them land a melee hit or two before you start piling on the DoTs? Do you use a non-damaging Curse (like Curse of Weakness) to pull a mob towards yourself, then have your Voidwalker "intercept" before the mob can get to you, let your Voidwalker land a melee hit and then manually command it to use Torment (once, not on autocast) and then and only then bring your Warlock into the fight with DoTs now that the Voidwalker has built up a nice "starter" stack of aggro? Are you using your Voidwalker as an aggro magnet with the purposeful intent of gaining weapon skill points, meaning you want to be swining your weapon as many times as possible? Are you leaving Torment and Suffering off autocast while keeping Consume Shadows on autocast, to as to "horde" mana as much as possible on your Voidwalker (which is impossible to do with an Imp who isn't in Passive mode and being used as a Mana battery for Dark Pact)? Basically, are you working WITH your Voidwalker to help ensure they retain aggro by not generating too much Threat on your Warlock too quickly? Or are you just pouring everything you can do into your targets and expecting your Voidwalker to keep up (when they can't)? Sometimes all it takes is just a slight shift in engagement strategy, the sequence of what you do when, to make a really big difference in how effective your Voidwalker can be for you as an aggro magnet. Of the 4 basic Pets a Warlock has, the Voidwalker has the most Armor, meaning it's the best at withstanding Physical damage. Since most melee attacks deal Physical damage, the Voidwalker is essentially a toe-to-glow melee combatant who has virtually no ranged capability whatsoever (and even it's AoE Threat spell doesn't have tremendous reach/area). If you don't have your Voidwalker autocasting Torment/Suffering then its mana consumption is quite manageable, even if using Consume Shadows on autocast after dropping combat status (and indeed, the amount of healing that Consume Shadows generates will also generate a lot of Threat, so there's also that to consider). My point being that investing in Improved Voidwalker isn't the end of the story of how to use a Voidwalker "properly" as an aggro magnet. It helps, don't get me wrong, but it's not a case of Spend And Forget. There are a lot of other things you can do (and invest in) that will make your Voidwalker substantially more effective, and getting "all" of those things means essentially going deep into Demonology rather than spending only 8 talent points in the tree and thinking that's enough. "There are more things in the Twisting Nether who have come to Azeroth than are dreamt of in your tactical philosophy." - Hamitup, Act I, Scene 5

The centuries old saying of "one bad apple spoils the barrel" appears to have been put into place, given what you're saying.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070221051250/http://petopia.brashendeavors.net/html/articles/skills_list.shtml#dive Dive 1: Pet Level 30 (15 TP). Increases movement speed by 40% for 15 seconds. Kraul Bat (30-31 Elite, Razorfen Kraul) * Cower 3, Dive 1 Greater Kraul Bat (32 Elite, Razorfen Kraul) * Cower 3, Dive 1 Shrike Bat (38-39 Elite, Uldaman) * Cower 4, Dive 1, Screech 2 Young Mesa Buzzard (31-32, Arathi Highlands) * Dive 1 Mesa Buzzard (34-35, Arathi Highlands) * Dive 1 Wayward Buzzard (35-37, Badlands) * Dive 1 Dread Flyer (36-37, Desolace) * Dive 1 I simply waited until Level 31 and Tamed a Young Mesa Buzzard in the Arathi Highlands in the vicinity of Refuge Pointe. Much easier than messing around with the contents of RFK and trying to convince a group of 4 other people to NOT attack a Bat I'd want to Tame during a run.

If you're using a flying Pet then you'll want Dive instead of Dash, but the logic still stands. If you're having trouble getting the Pet to engage, send them in first to attack and then once they land the first THEN you start shooting. If your Pet is on Defensive and you right click (to Auto Attack Melee engage) a target your Pet ought to try and tackle that specific target for you. If your Pet is on Passive they'll just stay parked beside you and ignore the fact that you're making stern faces with your weapons drawn at something downrange.

Which direction of proof are you asking for? Proof that Mining Nodes were partially randomized over a decade ago, or proof that Mining Nodes AREN'T partially randomized now?

In my experience, no you don't. You can do that, but you don't have to do that. I know this because I recently (within the past couple of weeks) Tamed Lupos on Darrowshire, fought hardly anything at all with my Tamed Lupos and have already reached Loyalty 6 just by going AFK with my Hunter while eating breakfast myself (Feed Player, Feed Pet ... well, at least there is symmetry) and just letting the Loyalty increases roll in over time. So in this case I'm pretty sure I'm standing on firm ground, simply because I've done it (recently).

Careful where you point that firehose of gratitude you're holding there (^_~). If you go looking for the kinds of topics I've started, and opinions I've posted, in the Priest, Mage, Rogue and Hunter Forums, you'll find that my sensibilities are WELL outside the mainstream of what most Players are looking for ... but then I've never been the type who is happy to conform to cookie cutters and follow the well worn Conventional Wisdom ground into the wagon ruts of where EVERYONE Has Gone Before™. Oh and some of my posts have a WALL OF TEXT CRITS YOU!!! quality of verbosity to them, although I'd like to think that the conversational style of my writing yields more signal than noise. Your mileage may vary, of course. But then I'm the sort of person that believes that, quote ... Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer ... unquote. Ye ken hoo i'tis.

Whitestone Oak Lumber can be obtained in drops from Goblins in Deadmines. Relatively easy to obtain. Jordan's Refined Ore Shipment can be obtained in drops from Ogres in northeast Loch Modan. Relatively easy to obtain. Purified Kor Gem can be obtained in drops from the elite Nagas in Blackfathom Deeps, either inside the dungeon instance or outside of it. Relatively easy to obtain. Jordan's Smithing Hammer can only be obtained from the Stables across the first courtyard inside Shadowfang Keep (in Horde territory), and you have to get past the first dungeon boss to even open the locked door that gives you access to that courtyard. Nigh impossible™ to obtain solo without hopelessly outleveling the mobs inside Shadowfang Keep (think Level 40+ Paladin). Everything inside Shadowfang Keep is elite, and most of them are "linked" in such a way that you can NEVER PULL JUST ONE. Trying to solo multiple elites is very much a one way trip to the graveyard (I tried it, it doesn't work), even if you've got like +8 Levels on them. EVERYTHING will be ripping your limbs from your torso with every single hit, and there's just no way you can keep up with the incoming damage by healing yourself (and you'll go OoM fast trying). Additionally, there are LOTS of hostile mobs in the courtyard you need to cross to get access to the Stables where the Hammer is found (it's an item you click on, rather than a drop) and it is Way Too Easy to attract the attention of almost EVERYTHING in that courtyard all at once if you're not careful. Do NOT attempt to get this quest item by yourself. YOU WILL FAIL ... repeatedly. Gather up a group, preferably including other Paladins who need this quest item too, and by all means try and get to the Stables where the Hammer is with a group of 5 people, for safety if nothing else. Since the Hammer comes relatively "early" in the dungeon, once you've gotten it, there is no shame in not clearing the rest of the dungeon instance (aside from the "loss" of XP and drops you would have otherwise gotten).

This is one of those slightly confusing things until you reach the "Oh, I see..." moment of understanding how stuff works. Your Crab is Loyalty Level 1 ... Rebellious. It's right there at the top of the Pet (Crab) window. The number of Training Points a Pet has available is their Level (in this case, 11) ... multiplied by their Loyalty (in this case, 1) minus 1. So, 11*(1-1)=?? ... and if you answered ZERO then you are correct. If your Crab was at max Loyalty (6) and was still Level 11, it would have 11*(6-1)=55 Training Points. But because your Pet is newly Tamed and still at the Loyalty 1 (Rebellious) stage, it has ZERO Training Points available. Doesn't matter if it's Level 10 or Level 60, ALL Pets at the Rebellious stage of Loyalty have ZERO Training Points. Thus, in order to get Training Points on your Pet that you can spend on things, you need to raise your Pet's Loyalty above 1. How do you do that? By keeping your Pet fed so that its Happiness level (the red/yellow/green face icon) stays green as much as possible. Do not "spam" food at your Pet in rapid succession if you don't enjoy WASTING food, since the Feed Pet effect is a buff that takes time to take effect. If you use Feed Pet again before the last buff has worn off, all you're doing is overwriting (and thus LOSING) the remaining benefits of the previous Feed Pet effect that got terminated early. So when the Happiness icon for your Pet goes from green to yellow, Feed them ONCE ... WAIT for the Feed Pet buff to expire ... and then If And Only If the Happiness icon for your Pet isn't green yet, Feed them again ... WAIT for the buff to expire ... and so on. Once the Happiness icon for your Pet is green, and you pay attention to keep it green, all you have to do is WAIT. You don't have to fight anything, or have your Pet fight anything (and in some ways it's better if you don't have them fighting) ... you just need to spend Time Logged In with your Pet summoned beside you. That's because Happiness is adding up on your Pet as time passes, and when Happiness stacks up over time to reach a certain threshold, your Pet's Loyalty will increase by +1, up to a maximum of 6 (Best Friend). The thing to note is that the red/yellow/green Happiness level indicator will have its state "decay" over time away from green to yellow to red, and if you take too long to Feed your Pet while their Happiness is red level your Pet can Abandon YOU and never come back (because you refused to "care" for your Pet by Feeding them and keeping them Happy with the arrangement of staying with you). How "rapidly" this Happiness level will decay over time depends on your Pet's Loyalty. At Loyalty 1 (Rebellious) the red/yellow/green state of Happiness will decay quite rapidly, so you'll be needing to Feed your Pet every 5-10 minutes or so. At Loyalty 6 (Best Friend) the red/yellow/green state of Happiness will decay remarkably slowly, so you'll be needing to Feed your Pet only once per hour or so of time played (together). Note that raising Loyalty is NOT an XP grind. It is not a Kill(s per hour) grind. It isn't even, technically, a Food grind, although you will need to periodically Feed your Pet to keep them at green Happiness for the duration. No, raising Loyalty is a TIME SPENT (with your Pet) grind. You don't have to be "doing" anything with your Pet other than be logged in on your Hunter, have your Pet "out" beside you, and Feed them whenever their Happiness drops below green to yellow so as to keep them Happy and accrue Happiness towards their next Loyalty uprank. That's it. Ah ... but then why does your Crab have -4 Training Points instead of zero? (I hear you ask) Well, that's because your Crab, when trained, comes with a "native" Pet Skill that it already knows (and keeps!) when you Tamed it. You can see it on the Beast Training window, in grey (because your Pet already "knows" it) ... Claw (Rank 2). That skill of Claw (Rank 2) doesn't come for "free" in terms of Training Points. As you can clearly see, it costs 4 TP for a Pet to have that Pet Skill. But at Loyalty 1, your Pet has ZERO Training Points available for learning Pet Skills from your Hunter ... and zero minus four is ... -4. Now if your Pet was Loyalty 2, at Level 11, it would have 11*(2-1)=11 Training Points ... but 4 of those Training Points would already have been spent on Claw (Rank 2), so you would only have another 7 Training Points to spend (because 11-4=7). So the moral of the story is that you can't train ANY new skills into a newly Tamed Pet (aside from Growl, which costs no Training Points) no matter what Level that Pet is, because at the Rebellious stage of Loyalty they all start with zero (or negative, in this case) Training Points to spend. It's only after increasing their Loyalty to 2+ that you start seeing a surplus of Training Points that allow you to start giving them extra Pet Skills. At Loyalty 6 and Level 60, the maximum number of Training Points you'll have available to spend will be 300. http://web.archive.org/web/20070221052606/http://petopia.brashendeavors.net:80/html/articles/skills_main.shtml http://web.archive.org/web/20070221051250/http://petopia.brashendeavors.net/html/articles/skills_list.shtml http://web.archive.org/web/20070226134300/http://petopia.brashendeavors.net:80/html/articles/resources/petcalc.html