Flexi

Played on Ravencrest EU and Al'Akir EU and never heard the abbreviation VC before I started playing private servers. Also, always used Start Baron/Scarlet. Cant we just agree that different servers used different names, rather than flaming each other for being "wrong"? Of course, this might be a serious case of the Mandela effect.

If you start undercutting the keyservice by 50% that will piss off a lot of people ;) The reason it costs that much is because its a huge investment to get, and because nobody like doing 725835 LBRS runs. But of course you are allowed to charge what you want, and Im sure groups will love you for it.

Just want to point out that most of these are currently unavailable on the Elysium server, but in general, buying healing gear on the Auction House or from other players is an excellent tip.

You could also stay Feral and tank dungeons at 60. Tanks are always in demand, so most groups wont mind that you need on healing items as your mainspec if you explain it to them before the dungeon begins. Once you feel like you have a comfortable amount of healing items you can make the switch to restoration.

I am willing to bet no decent guild actually gives a shit.

This is how I see it. It becomes even more obvious with items like Edgemaster's Handguards that typically sell for 1000g+, or Alcors Sunrazor (1000g+) or especially the Teebus Blazing Longsword which can sell for 2-3000+ gold. Honestly, you would have to be out of your mind to pass on that to a random stranger, no matter how much he needs it.

Just wanted to say thank you for a balanced and well written post.

Well you certainly have a right to your opinion, but sitting here screaming at each other that the other person is wrong will not get us anywhere. Also, having people agree with your opinion does make it more true.

But is it not just as greedy to claim that one are entitled to a certain item just because one play a class that happen to be able to wear it? The item is available on the auction house, and could be bought there.

Stating something as the truth does not make it the truth. You may feel you are right, but I dont know how to explain it to you if you cannot understand that there can be multiple points of view to a single issue. Not everything has a clear cut objective truth to it, but if you think there is, it is up to you to present a proper argument as to why, not just repeat that you are right because you say so over and over.

I see you quoted me before the edit to my post. It is not possible to AoE farm 200 gold per hour. But you could understand that this is what I meant if you really wanted. Cant we get back to the topic now?

It is not possible to AoE farm 200 gold/hour without factoring in random BoE drops. I will assume you do not know that, rather than you deliberately lying about it.

I dont care about the AFK. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of having one standard of evidence for yourself and one for others. But this is derailing the thread, so lets not dwell on this any further.

Then dont make an unsubstantiated claim. Or if you do, dont ask other people for evidence of theirs. Its a really simple concept.

You claimed earlier that Beerwizzard went afk for 15 min. If you ask for evidence, just know it cuts both ways. He has no obligation to prove his claims unless you can prove yours.

This is exactly why I will stop posting. You are intentionally being dishonest by using straw man arguments. "Since you are ok with ninja's and all" is simply not true. I never said this. I am opposed to ninjalooting as much as you are, but I am disagreeing with your definition of what constitutes ninjalooting. But if you cannot argue against what I actually say, but rather have to twist what I write to better suit your argument, what is the point? My name is the same as what I post under, I play Alliance and I play on Elysium PvP. But do everyone a a favor. If you are making some kind of petition, link to this thread so that others can make up their own mind. Im out of here.

We obviously have very different perspectives here, but as much as I would like to debate this further I dont see the point if we cannot keep doing it in a civilized manner without resorting to namecalling and insults. I will therefore just say that we all should agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I never said this.

Let me lay out my thoughts on this. It is my opinion that while the Need/Greed/Pass options works great for items that are Bind on Pickup, the same system cannot be used for Bind on Equip items. In the case of the Scarlet Boots, lets say they are worth 10 gold on the auction house. Since the boots are BoE, every mail user has equal opportunity to wear them without specifically running the dungeon where they drop, at the cost of 10 gold. Where I think our disagreement comes from is that we have different views on what loot is. For Bind of Pickup items, it is very simple. You get a group together with the aim of hunting down a particular, or multiple items from the loot table for that dungeon, and thus when any item drop, you select either Need or Greed or Pass depending on wether or not that item fit the criteria for an upgrade for your class. As for Bind on Equip items, it becomes more complex. Because of the ability to trade any BoE item with other players either directly or through the auction house, the item becomes just another form of currency like gold already is. When you are in a group and those boots drop off the trash, what really drops is 10 gold coins the group get to pick Need or Greed on. There is no objective criteria you can use to which any one player need the 10 gold more than any other player, and as such the option to Need on the item is essentially the same as the option to Greed. Because the game will always prioritize a roll of Need over a roll of Greed, the best course of action is for the entire group to press Need, as it prevents any single player from selecting the Need options after the rest of the group choose how to roll. While the boots technically is an upgrade for the warrior in the group, having the group pass (greed) on that particular item means they effectively elect to opt out of the opportunity to make ten gold coins on the auction house which could have been used to acquire a similar BoE item for their own class. As for how I would react in this circumstance, I would happily pass the Scarlet Boots to the warrior, or the Shadowfang Bracers to the rogue, but not because I feel like I have any sort of obligation to do so, or because I think he is more entitled to have them than I am, but because I feel like its a nice thing to do in that particular group. But I need to make a judgement on every item individually as to how much I value them. It would of course be very nice of me to pass an Edgemaster's Handguards to the DPS warrior in my party, but at that point I feel like the benefit to being nice to the stranger in the group does not outweigh the benefit of me rolling on the item so I can trade it for an item that would hugely benefit my own character. This is the same reason why many Molten Core raids often choose to keep the BoE drops for the people organizing the raid rather than have them rolled out like all the other loot. I hope this explained some of my reasoning for defending Beerwizzard in this thread, and I hope you can see that there is no clear cut definition to what constitutes ninjalooting when it comes to BoE's as it ultimately comes down to wether or not you view liquidable items first and foremost as an upgrade for a character or as a form of currency. I personally see them as the latter.

I will have to ask for some evidence to your claim that this is how the consensus was at the time. Otherwise your statement that I am talking shit comes with a certain sense if irony.

I played vanilla, and I never thought anyone should be entitled to BoE items just because they happen to be able to use them. Your point is moot.

Nobody said that. I never claimed anyone said that. I am just saying you cannot selectively apply one set of rules to only a few items and not every item. Either every BoE item should be rolled for by the entire group or none of them should. How hard it is to play any particular role is completely irellevant. The fact of the matter is that when you have the option of liquidating a parcticular item into large amounts of gold then every player needs the item just as much. A mage can sell the pauldrons and get an Elemental Mage Staff. A druid can sell the pauldrons and buy a Warden staff. A rogue can sell the pauldrons and buy a Krol Blade. It has equal value to everyone in this case. P.S. Skip the "You must be a liberal." part. I dont believe in the left/right paradigm, and would rather judge every issue on its own merits rather than adhere to group thinking. Without intending to offend, It just makes you look like an idiot.

Edit: Deleted for duplicate post.

He did nothing wrong here. Nobody is under any obligation to pass on hundreds of gold to other players they have no ties to. These kinds of BoE's are luxury items that nobody really needs, and while it certainly be very nice of the group to pass, lets not condemn this player to never finding groups because your views on which items belong to what classes differ from other people.

Why would I pass hundreds of gold to somebody I dont even know? I dont see this as being ninjalooting at all. I dont even understand how can argue a player that can wear BoE's have any more right to them. Nothing stops that player from buying the same item on the auction house using gold. By Needrolling and equipping, that person just spent 300 gold equipping that item on his or her character, there is really no argument here. Edit: We can extend this logic to apply to everything else, and there is really no reason we should not by using the arguments above. Give all Runecloth to tailors, all the greens should be given to the enchanter, and ores inside chests should always go to the Blacksmith. Obviously no sane person would agree to this, so why is it that when a BoE item that drop that is not on the loot table of the dungeon, somehow it should go to the person that can equip it? Its a nice bonus that it drops, but it took all five members of the group to get to this point in the dungeon in the first place.