J.AllenBrack

So I just tanked Zul'farrak and Vice Grips (Plate Gloves) (http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=9640) with + stam dropped off of Antu'sul, the first boss. I needed the gloves since it was a significant upgrade for me, but an Undead Mage named Blowitup also needed the gloves claiming he misclicked. He ended up winning the gloves and when the whole party asked him why he would need on Plate gloves he said it was a misclick, and I thought I'd better just give him the benefit of the doubt. Then I recognized the name Blowitup, I had been in UC before the dungeon run and someone was saying in Trade chat not to group with the ninja looting mage Blowitup. I immediately became suspicious and then claimed he did it intentionally, and again he said it was just a mistake. After my accusations, he said sorry and that he would TRADE it to me and opened trade chat and was unable to trade it (it being BoP).... That's when i realized he thought likely thought the Blue Plate gloves were a BoE. Without even checking to see if they were BoP or BoE. He just saw a Blue item drop and thought he should insta-need to sell it. I was honestly pretty angry but decided to just finish the run giving him one more chance to see if he would need another blue item he couldn't use to try to confirm my suspicions. Then at the Chief Ukorz Sandscalp the Big Bad Pauldrons (http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=9476) dropped, again plate shoulders and I needed and everyone else said grats and greeded or passed......... all but Blowitup. I had to ask him in party chat and directly whisper him to please pass before it took him the whole roll time to expire and he auto passed. That was when the whole group came to the same conclusion that he probably did intentionally needed the gloves and would have needed the shoulders as well (knowing they were BoP's and feigning ignorance, or thinking they were BoE's). I know I'm rambling and probably whining, but I just needed to rant about the problem, if people are needing Blue BoP's off of bosses immediately thinking they are BoE's they can need and sell, I'm pretty sure that people have taken needing BoE's too far. And if that Mage is just needing every drop just to vendor, then he's just in an even higher tier of stupid or greedy players. I'm not saying you shouldn't Need rare or even epic BoE's, I'm not gonna tell you how to play, that's up to you or the group that you're in. But please for the love of god, check if the item is a BoP before needing on something sombody else can use (especially if it drops off of a boss).... And if you're grouped up with the Undead Mage Blowitup, just be wary; if the same thing happens to your group, it's most likely not a coincidence. edit: sorry for the clickbait title.

Boots of Avoidance http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=14549#dropped-by I was tanking a Maraudon dungeon run, and these boots dropped and I was pretty excited (being a tank, and planning on tanking late game raids), and I asked the group If it was cool if I needed on the boots, seeing as how It was actually one of the best boots to have pre-raiding, and I was the only Warrior in the group. The Thornstone Sledgehammer literally just dropped the mob before the mob that dropped the boots, and we all unanimously greeded on the Blue BoE, so I assumed this group was sensible and understood Need before Greed. But when the boots dropped, I asked politely if i could need the boots to actually use (and equip on the spot), but the group suddenly became irate saying that the boots were only good to sell and that I'd "Outlevel them" and that everyone should need because it was "vauable" regardless of if they could use it or were only going to AH it (If they were worth a lot, that's because they are useful at 60/raiding so that " you'll outlevel it" comment was one of the dumbest things i'd ever heard). I ended up losing the roll to a rogue, who I politely whispered the rogue if I could get the boots off of him and I'd even be willing to pay, since I really could use them, and it was (in my mind, not fair that we should all need just because it was a BoE). But he replied "For alot of gold yes", and I was pretty upset and decided I no longer wanted to finish the run with this group and wanted to leave. I helped everyone clear to Celebras and explained to everyone how to get the scepter and then left the group. Am I wrong in believing that it was unjust to Need on a BoE someone could actually use just to AH? I mean if it was a Blue BoE I needed, I can't imagine this would be a problem, but it was an Epic so I'm guessing everyone's greed just got the better of them. If something different like Stockade Pauldrons or Gut Ripper, or Krol Blade dropped and we had someone who could actually use the items, is it still acceptable for everyone to Need on the item, just out of pure greed? I'm pretty sure that this constitutes Ninjaing, in this situation, am I wrong? (I'll post Screenshots if anyone wants evidence)

DIRECT vs indirect. Just look up the definition of the two words you stupid cunt, stop being mad that I'm using your won words against you. "What hole? What hole? There's no hole?" I just repeated it like 4 times you daft cunt. Is that rogue going to spend that gold right away? No probably not. They are going have to level to like 55 to be able to buy and equip some pre-raid bis like the Devilsaur set (which is also just propagating that shitty Devilsaur monopoly, the set is up to like over 400g now that they are inflating the prices, which the Boots are not even going to sell for). So a 49 Warrior can equip the item right then and there and get use out of them then and there in the dungeon and use them outside of the dungeon while leveling, until they find better leveling boots from a BoP or such, and THEN still keep the item for tanking in raids. The rogue gets gold which will help him buy some BoE.... IF he manages to sell it for a good prices, IF whatever he wants to buy is being sold or on the AH, IF he can afford it, IF he meets the level requirement to equip the item. Those are just 4 of many IF's, what's stopping me from doing any of these if I have the Boots? None, I can use them immediately and DIRECTLY benefit from having the item, not from INDIRECTLY having gold to eventually buy an item. If you can't equip an item or it isn't an upgrade, or if you aren't the require level to equip an item and someone ELSE is, then you have no claim to that item and should not need. Now that is how BoP's work now and since the beginning of the goddamn game. How are BoE's any different just because they can be turned into gold, which and be turned into something else. You don't have equal or more claim to an item that someone who can use and rightfully needs the item, therefore you have no reason to need roll against said person. So once again shut the fuck up unless you have a real point, or go play outside like a good boy.

Do you have any evidence to support this 12+ year rule?

Also Oakenlix (aka Greedy Cunt) you just put a massive hole through your own argument: Good phrasing, INDIRECTLY, is exactly that, if it is indirectly beneficial to someone as opposed to being directly beneficial, wouldn't any competent person with a grasp of the English language understand that directly beneficial is greater that being indirectly beneficial? Directly>indirectly? Again, your words not mine.

You're absolutely right, the community USED to understand this. I'm pretty certain that most vet's from vanilla/beta have actually moved on from the game, and the people who play on private vanilla servers are mostly a younger generation of people who missed the boat and never experienced live vanilla. Most of the people who think its fine to Need on every BoE are most definitely newer players (non-vanilla/tbc or from retail) because they think that they are somehow entitled to that gold and that it should rightfully belong to them, which is probably how it is in newer mmo's, they don't realize that sort of mentality doesn't translate well into a 10+ year old game. In vanilla wow gameplay is user and community driven and where when an item drops, it drops for a GROUP of players and they themselves must decide who gets the item (usually having a vote, as a roll, in who should democratically get an item, be it themselves or another player if they deem that they are more deserving), not everyone will get their own personal item. This is an MMORPG not a single player game, you play with other real people and if you're a toxic or greedy player in a community it doesn't go unnoticed. You may say that "this is how its always been on my server since vanilla" but you cant really show any evidence to prove that, while the loot rules of Need before Greed were made (though vaguely) by Blizzard and the community deemed what was acceptable and not acceptable. Going into MC and having the loot set at Need before Greed, and someone in the raid rolling NEED on a BoE (for example Blood's of the Mountain, or one of the BoE blues off Ragnaros) when they couldn't use the item or only planned on selling the item, was a kickable offense, and was and is considered to be unacceptable behavior. Go to allakazam wow and find a post that says otherwise, the truth is that you can't find anything from vanilla to back the claim that GREED is indeed ≥ Need.

And also mytchi3 and Rapteg why are you commenting on this thread instead of replying to my argument on ? Oh because you'd rather come here where there are less people arguing against your point and would rather choose the easy way of claiming "there is no reason within your arguing" with no context or explaining how there is no reasoning. Also a coherent sentence would be "there is no reason within your argument". You don't even know how to properly type, how is anyone supposed to take your shitty argument seriously? Reply with a coherent point or don't bother letting garbage dribble through your mouth.

Only its not the same upgrade, a person who can use and equip the item on the spot and will use the item in the very dungeon run they got the item on and well into 60 raiding gets vastly more use out of the item than someone who will sell the item after a period of time ( a day, a week, etc), and use the gold after a period of time ( a gold, a week, a month) to buy their bis gear AT 60. And to reiterate AT 60 not at 50 like I was, and the previous argument of buying the bloodvine set on the AH is null because I'm on Elysium PvP, ZG isn't out yet. I get immediate use out of the item and it will last me until I replace it with a raiding epic boots, some can argue that 2% dodge is more valuable than tier since there are diminishing returns on armor, while 2% dodge is always going to be useful. But you're just a pleb dps I'd imagine who has no idea what Bis gear means for a tank. That's my reasoning, an item I can equip and use indefinitely vs. outright greed/money that will eventually be used at 60 for an item. The only real solution is to identify and completely ignore retarded shitstains like you ingame. This is a forum, what anyone says on here means nothing, try saying making your argument in a party or raid ingame, you'll get shit on by pretty much everyone. So go ahead and hide behind the forum anonymity, your point doesn't mean shit in game.

People need on BoP's all the time, sometimes they already have the item and claim they forgot they had it, or simply unequip it when it drops, I'ves seen this happen lots of times, according to you this is normal behavior. I dont need luck, I'm a tank I can just make my own groups.

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There was a post where stockade pauldrons dropped in a lbrs run, and people let the tank Need on it because he would use it. Everyone passed but a rogue, who needed and won the shoulders. That was unanimously considered to be Ninjaing in that thread, in this case its just 4 people trying to ninja. Which is actually worse.

I'm running dungeons ML from now on, nothing you can do about greedy fucks on this server.

Yea you're actually absolutely right

And no, BoP BoE, doesnt really matter according to your argument " those BOE epics either since gold is interchangeable currency" gold is gold right? does it matter what form its in? BoE BoP vendor gold? Nexus Crystal?

Nice hypothetical situation that will never happen. "Dont twist the argument to something its not about".... yea re-read your comment numbnuts

Yea, I've come to learn that this server is full of greedy fucks, not everyone is like this, I've run with a lot of good people. But from now on,when I'm tanking and group lead I'm running dungeons with ML, no question. Pretty much no other choice.

The difference is between being entitled to raw gold for themselves and Needing an item someone will legitimately use. What gives them the right to sell it on the AH and keep all the gold for themselves, If they split the profits 5 ways then there's no problem. Wanting gold and needing simply because they can is entitlement to something they have no right over, Needing an Item you will use is literally how to loot system in WoW is meant to work, Your BoP item drops off a boss, you need. If someone who can't use said item Needs because they can vendor/disenchant, that's entitlement and greed. Get your head out of you're ass, your argument that "gold is interchangeable currency as as soon as the person who got BOE epic sold can buy his own BOE epic he can use in this case rogue can buy Krol Blade or devilsaur set" means that people are free to Need anything and everything they want simply because shards and BoP items can become gold, we're does you logic actually work? No where and to no one. So shut the fuck up and if you're gonna respond respond with an actual coherent argument.

I actually would, If he promised to equip it on the spot.

I don't see how people aren't aware of their own GREED, I mean if something drops and is useful of 1 person in the group, and that person explicitly says they need an Item and will use that item, It makes sense that everyone else passes on that item. That is how BoP's work, but how is it acceptable at all when that same item suddenly becomes BoE that its okay for anyone to stake their claim on that item, solely on the idea that it will be worth a lot of money to them. If you're gonna be a shitty greedy cunt, at least own up to being a shitty greedy cunt rather than hide behind the flawed idea that you're entitled to these items regardless of if you can use them or not.

So anyway Boots of Avoidance http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=14549#dropped-by just dropped on my Maraudon dungeon run, and I was pretty excited (being a tank, and planning on tanking late game raids), and I asked the group If it was cool if I needed on the boots, seeing as how It was actually one of the best boots to have pre-raiding. The Thornstone Sledgehammer literally just dropped the mob before the mob that dropped the boots, and we all unanimously greeded on the Blue BoE, so I assumed this group was sensible and understood Need before Greed. But when the boots dropped, I asked politely if i could need the boots to actually use (and equip on the spot), but the group suddenly became irate saying that the boots were only good to sell and that I'd "Outlevel them" and that everyone should need because it was "vauable" regardless of if they could use it or were only going to AH it (If they were worth a lot, that's because they are useful at 60/raiding so that " you'll outlevel it" comment was one of the dumbest things i'd ever heard). I ended up losing the roll to a rogue, who I politely whispered the rogue if I could get the boots off of him and I'd even be willing to pay, since I really could use them, and it was (in my mind, not fair that we should all need just because it was a BoE). But he replied "For alot of gold yes", and I was pretty upset and decided I no longer wanted to finish the run with this group and wanted to leave. I helped everyone clear to Celebras and explained to everyone how to get the scepter and then left the group. Am I wrong in believing that it was unjust to Need on a BoE someone could actually use just to AH? I mean if it was a Blue BoE I needed, I can't imagine this would be a problem, but it was an Epic so I'm guessing everyone's greed just got the better of them. If something different like Stockade Pauldrons or Gut Ripper, or Krol Blade dropped and we had someone who could actually use the items, is it still acceptable for everyone to Need on the item, just out of pure greed? I'm pretty sure that this constitutes Ninjaing, in this situation, am I wrong? (I'll post Screenshots if anyone wants evidence)

So anyway Boots of Avoidance http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=14549#dropped-by just dropped on my Maraudon dungeon run, and I was pretty excited (being a tank, and planning on tanking late game raids), and I asked the group If it was cool if I needed on the boots, seeing as how It was actually one of the best boots to have pre-raiding. The Thornstone Sledgehammer literally just dropped the mob before the mob that dropped the boots, and we all unanimously greeded on the Blue BoE, so I assumed this group was sensible and understood Need before Greed. But when the boots dropped, I asked politely if i could need the boots to actually use (and equip on the spot), but the group suddenly became irate saying that the boots were only good to sell and that I'd "Outlevel them" and that everyone should need because it was "vauable" regardless of if they could use it or were only going to AH it (If they were worth a lot, that's because they are useful at 60/raiding so that " you'll outlevel it" comment was one of the dumbest things i'd ever heard). I ended up losing the roll to a rogue, who I politely whispered the rogue if I could get the boots off of him and I'd even be willing to pay, since I really could use them, and it was (in my mind, not fair that we should all need just because it was a BoE). But he replied "For alot of gold yes", and I was pretty upset and decided I no longer wanted to finish the run with this group and wanted to leave. I helped everyone clear to Celebras and explained to everyone how to get the scepter and then left the group. Am I wrong in believing that it was unjust to Need on a BoE someone could actually use just to AH? I mean if it was a Blue BoE I needed, I can't imagine this would be a problem, but it was an Epic so I'm guessing everyone's greed just got the better of them. If something different like Stockade Pauldrons or Gut Ripper, or Krol Blade dropped and we had someone who could actually use the items, is it still acceptable for everyone to Need on the item, just out of pure greed? I'm pretty sure that this constitutes Ninjaing, in this situation, am I wrong? (I'll post Screenshots if anyone wants evidence)

Dont group with this mage, running ZF yet again for the 3rd time, and we explain that Witch Doctor Zum'rah's loot table is broken and he'd not dropping his blues atm. I've run zf twice now and both times after clearing all of the Shallow Graves for like 25+ minutes, he only dropped a healing pot. I ask world chat and the group and the consensus is that he's not working at the moment. The warlock in our group is retardedly claiming that "I've raided in vanilla 10000 times, This boss works!" and I explain once again that hes is not working properly on this server. We finally decide to skip the boss, but the retard mage Zaraak is having none of this, he wants is little fucking staff even though we spent like 5 minutes discussing how he drops nothing. He pulls the boss without us clearing the room and the zombies come out and we get the boss down to 15% before were wiped. The zombies were bugged and remained after we wiped and killed the priest who soulstoned. The group disbanded because a retarded fucking child wanted his items and didn't bother listening to what anyone would say. I'm honestly pretty tired of the amount of retards playing on Elysium PvP, and the retarded bugs and scripting that's making interractions will all of the mongos on this server unbearable. There is already a bug report on the issue that's been up for this whole week. I cant imagine how hard it is to fix a boss to drop loot like he should, or how hard it is for someone who speaks and can type in English to be so thick headed that he decides what the dungeon group is going to do, by himself and decides to do whatever he fucking wants. The funniest thing is that if we decided to try the boss and focus him down before the adds would come out we could have killed him to see nothing drops, we got him to 15% with the mage dying instantly, but this retard mage instead of frost-bolting and dpsing he uses arcane explosion on fucking like 7 elites doing 0 damage to the boss and getting aggro and dying. So he' a fucking imbecile and a terrible player, don't group with this fucking waste of air.

Hi, has anyone else noticed that when Humanoid mobs flee (run away at low hp) they run at full speed regardless of whether or not they are slowed (Hamstring, Frostbolt, Frostshock, etc.)? I've run several dungeons where this has cause mobs to flee into other packs pulling extra mobs into combat (most recently Scarlet Monastery). I was wondering if this was a Blizzlike feature or a bug? I don't recall this being a problem on the old Nostalrius server or on several other vanilla private servers. Does anyone have an answer or have seen this happen to them? Thanks

Could you post a mirror, I'm getting a 503 error service unavailable.