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Hanzemon

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  1. I think what this will do is more than nerfing anything is bringing up setups that would be considered underdog in the current flaw system, as it is not directly nerfing any class but instead balancing out the gap between RACES that have +Weapon Skill Bonuses vs RACES that don't have +Weapon skill Bonuses. Indeed Warriors and Rogues will have a higher chance to hit their boss targets, but in the same page all melee classes will l do aswell, and have more flexibility regarding Race and Itemization. I am glad for the information you helped me with for making this post, but I cannot agree or give false expectations on what this fix will do. This will not nerf Warriors or Rogues, but it will certainly buff races that can play those classes AND do not have any +Weapon skill bonuses, as the only big advantage those races will have will be +15% glancing blow damage in the early raids and dungeons. Kind regards. Hanzemon.
  2. **Introduction.** This will be a long article about the flaws in the current attack table and the mechanics involved, I will briefly touch the current behavior and compare it to the Blizzlike Classic behavior by going deeply into the mechanics involved, Any error or lack of information regarding the current behavior should not be taken too strongly as I will provide the correct behavior that will kick the other into the maelstrom forever. --------------------------------------------**THE CURRENT BEHAVIOR**------------------------------------------- Right now the effects of Weapon skill over the Miss chance **against a mob 3 levels higher** looks like this: Weapon skill: 300 ---> Chance to miss: 8.60% Weapon skill: 301 ---> Chance to miss: 7.96% Weapon skill: 302 ---> Chance to miss: 7.32% Weapon skill: 303 ---> Chance to miss: 6.66% --Hail satan Weapon skill: 304 ---> Chance to miss: 6.04% Weapon skill: 305 ---> Chance to miss: 5.40% _Every 1 weapon skill is reducing 0.64% chance to miss the target, this only occurs when the difference between the mob's defense skill and player's weapon skill is > 10._ Now beyond 305 it changes and the effects of weapon skill over the miss chance against a mob 3 levels higher looks like this: Weapon skill: 306 ---> Chance to miss: 5.36% Weapon skill: 307 ---> Chance to miss: 5.32% Weapon skill: 308 ---> Chance to miss: 5.28% Weapon skill: 309 ---> Chance to miss: 5.24% Weapon skill: 310 ---> Chance to miss: 5.20% Weapon skill: 311 ---> Chance to miss: 5.16% Weapon skill: 312 ---> Chance to miss: 5.12% Weapon skill: 313 ---> Chance to miss: 5.08% Weapon skill: 314 ---> Chance to miss: 5.04% Weapon skill: 315 ---> Chance to miss: 5.00% _Now every 1 weapon skill reduces the chance to miss the target by 0.04%._ Table ---------------------------------------**INTENDED BEHAVIOR (BLIZZLIKE)**--------------------------------------- **In the original version of World of Warcraft it worked like this:** --Citing Wow Gamepedia on _Weapon skill_ September 30th 2006. _For each point that your weapon skill exceeds your opponent's defense, you gain the following:_ _Your chance to miss decreases by 0.04%._ _Your chance to score a critical hit increases by 0.04%._ _Your opponent's chance to block your attack decreases by 0.04%._ _Your opponent's chance to parry your attack decreases by 0.04%._ _Your opponent's chance to dodge your attack decreases by 0.04%._ _Effectively, you can consider weapon skill to be the inverse of the defense skill_. Source: Wow Gamepedia on Weapon Skill &nbsp;30 September, 2006 - **Now, that brings some doubts, it specifies "exceeds". But what about when it's lower?. Let's have some more insight:** --Citing Wow Gamepedia on _Dual wield_ September 6th 2006. ...Take a rogue for example vs. a 63 monster, he has 5%+(0.04% * 15)= 5.6% base miss chance (assuming he has 300 weapon skill and the monster has no special internal Defense skill bonuses),** plus 19% dual wield miss chance, leaving us with a total miss chance of 24.6%. **We can see it has actually the same effect** Source: Wow Gamepedia on Dual wield 6 September, 2006 - **Okay, now we know that the miss chance against a lvl 63 mob at 300 weapon skill is 5.6% and not 8.6%, but, what does the actual **Attack Table** look like?** **Let's jump into that:** --Citing WoWWiki on Attack table October 29th 2006. _Example 2 Elliot the Rogue is level 60, and is attacking a boss mob along with the rest of his raid group. He has stocked up on all sorts of +crit gear, so his crit chance against the boss mob is a whopping 30%. Since he is dual-wielding, he incurs an additional +19% miss chance on every autoattack swing; and although his +5 weapon skill gear does counter a little bit of this, he did not bring any +hit gear with him, so his miss chance against a boss mob is 24.4%. (+Hit gear doesn't directly increase your chance of a hit; instead, it reduces your chance of a miss.) When he attacks the boss mob from the front, Elliot's attack table looks like this:_ _Note that despite his nominal "crit chance" of 30%, his miss chance from dual-wielding and his glancing blow chance due to the boss's high level mean that only 19.4% of his attacks are going to be critical hits. This conundrum is sometimes referred to as the Crit Cap -- his chance to crit is capped at 19.4%, so 10.6% of his +crit bonus is wasted._ **Hanzemon: Now we can notice that Elliot's chance to miss is 24.40% instead of 24.60% (5% base + 0.6% Wepskill/Defskill difference + 19% dual wield) this is because as said before he has +5 Weapon skill which reduces his chances to miss by: 5 * 0.04% = 0.20%; now substract it to the total miss chance: 24.60% - 0.20% = 24.40%.** **Let's continue a lilttle further.** _Realizing his stupidity, Elliot maneuvers around behind the boss mob to continue his attacks. From behind, a mob cannot parry or block, so Elliot's attack table now looks like this:_ **And finally but not less important, for yellow attacks** Source: [WoWWiki on Attack table October 29th 2006 ------------------------------------------------------**EVIDENCE**----------------------------------------------------- **Now I will show you the post of a player that played World of Warcraft back in 2006.** --Citing the player Zoroaster member of < The Obsidian Order > from Aggramar server in the forums of WoW Europe. **Regarding Avoidance:** _Dodge, Block and Parry all have a base stat of 5% for mobs. They increase as the mobs Defense becomes higher than your weapon skill at 0.04 per point. Each Mob gains 5 points in defence per level. Block and Parry only apply when attacking from the front. _ _Base miss chance is 5%. If you duel weild your white attacks (auto attacks) suffer a further 19%. All your +hit gear reduces this number. For every point the mob defense is higher than your weapon skill, miss goes up by 0.04. _ **His examples of the Attack table** _Your yellow strikes (special attacks) aren't that effected by targetting the boss, but your white strikes (auto attacks) all of a sudden are much less damaging. Worse to come - say you have +5% Hit and 25% crit, fresh from farming level 60 mobs..._ Yellow (Special) 5.6% Dodge 5.6% Parry (0) 5.6% Block (0) 0.6% Miss 24.4% Crit (-0.6 due to weapon/defence differnece) 58.2% Hit (69.4) White (Auto) 5.6% Dodge 5.6% Parry (0) 5.6% Block) (0) 19.6% Miss 40% Glancing 23.6% Crit (24.4) 0% Hit (10.4) Source & complete post (I recommend you to read it): http://web.archive.org/web/20061115223930/http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=14381707&sid=1 ---------------------------------------------GLANCING BLOW DAMAGE---------------------------------------- **To finish let's go over glancing blows real quick** --Citing Wow Gamepedia on _Weapon skill_ September 30th 2006. _Glancing Blow chance The percentage chance of a glancing blow on any melee auto-attack, with either the main hand weapon or the off-hand weapon, is normally agreed to be the following:_ _(NPC’s Defense skill – YOUR Weapon skill – 5) * 3% + 10%_ **_... where "YOUR Weapon skill" is capped at your level * 5._** **With this formula we can calculate the glancing blow chance very easily, which is 40% against bosses regardless of all the +Weapon Skill bonuses you might have, including racials.** Source: Wow Gamepedia on Weapon Skill &nbsp;30 September, 2006. **Thanks to Killerduki, for helping me with all the sources and data as well as patiently explaining to me the difference between the current private servers Attack table values and Weapon Skill coefficients** . -Hanzemon. Original post on Github : https://github.com/elysium-project/classic-bug-tracker/issues/960
  3. Hanzemon

    Shouts Threat Generation

    No, unless you are testing on another server. Warrior's Demoralizing Shout and Battle Shout are NOT generating any threat whatsoever, If you have any information about what the numbers are on these spells Threat it would be helpgul 😉
  4. Hanzemon

    Shouts Threat Generation

    Bloodrage is generating threat normally, At the moment it's just shouts. I wish to know the correct numbers to post the bug on the bug tracker.
  5. Hanzemon

    Shouts Threat Generation

    Hi everyone, I noticed that in this server Battle Shout and Demoralizing Shout are not generating Threat. For Battle Shout, it's aggro generation was reduced in patch 2.0.1. Meaning that it actually generated Threat. I would like to gather enought information here before reporting this issue via the Bug Tracker (github). I also found this discussion on reddit if anyone wants to take a look.
  6. Hanzemon

    Development Update 04.10.2017

    After reading all the patch notes in wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patches/1.x , I confirm that there isn't any patch change in Vanilla retail version that claims to "fix" the Swing timer not resetting after casting a spell, instead there are 2 patch changes that go over Swing timers and those are: 1.4.0 Extra attacks gained from spells and abilities are applied immediately and do not affect normal combat swing time. (This means that Spells such as Stormstrike won't be resetting the auto attack timer, after the spell damage is applied the Swing time remains the same, and yes this is a change that supports and promotes the use of spells in between attack without getting the Swing timer resetted). And: 1.7.0 When you swap weapons in combat, you start your swing again, instead of continuing your last swing. (There is this only patch change that forces the Swing timer to reset on weapon changes during combat. In order to prevent the abusive usage of weapon effects consecutively/resetting the Swing timer to increase the dps). In later patches there is not any change to Swing timer resets, and there is not any hotfix that modify the modus operandi that comes by default in the game, if you cast a spell while your swing timer CD goes off the swing delays until the cast is done, not resetting the swing timer unless the cast is done before the swing timer CD ends, cancelling the unfinished previous action. This allowing to be able to cast spells in between attacks if you can time the the spell correctly to not be done before the next swing is line to be executed. This meaning that if you start casting a spell that has a cast time of 2.5 after the next swing of your 2.0 weapon starts to load the swing will go right after the spell is succesfully casted.
  7. Hanzemon

    Development Update 04.10.2017

    Well, if you already disliked my persona, there is certainly nothing that I can do to change your mind, it would be nice if you could just take me off the image and consider it as a neutral idea that came fout of nowhere, again, I apologize, I'm really new to the forum and didn't know that using the tools of the comment section to give more emphasis to something I think it's very relevant could be taken as offensive, inappropiate or toxic. I have to point this is not a custom change to Shamans, but a small aspect of the game that I can't tell if it worked like that in retail vanilla, I have to add that I learned about this mechanic in a old WoW dead forum from back then, is there any possibility that this change is a mistake?. And if it's not reconsider my last comment, from human to human I'd invite you to read it again and try to reconsider.
  8. Hanzemon

    Development Update 04.10.2017

    It's not about me, I just used "me" as an example, there are several number of players who LOVE Shamans and would like to PVE with them. There are not too much options but taking the most beneficial aspects of the Shaman mechanics and Talents, and the use specifically of those 2 talents combined with the mechanic of casting a quick spell between swings can make them Viable for DPSing as a hybrid class, The frustrated goal of hundred of players who worked hard for being relevant as a hybrid DPS/Support Shaman in a high end PVE scenario could be achieved now. The use of this mechanic is only relevant specifically in PvE and wouldn't make Shamans stronger in any PvP scenario and wouldn't even make them too strong for PvE -just not that underdog-, also, It is not that I'm asking for something personally, again, it's for the community and it's a change that would make the game less punishing and more rewarding for players that go the hard way in this game and will motivate them to keep going on. It is not a proposal to make huge changes to Enh/Ele Shamans or just Shamans overall that could differ of the main purpose of this server which is to be like Blizzard's 1.12.1 Wow, It is about a small little fix that doesn't trigger any abusive playstile or affects negatively any of the other classes/players in the game but to make a specific spec not that irrelevant, and i don't know if it was like this back then in Blizzard's Vanilla, but if we think about it this is the great oportunity to make what they could not do back then and solve a remarkable problem of Blizzard's vanilla here, now. and make an aspect of the game that was not so good, "so good" and be it something to be proud of. I know maybe it doesn't depend entirely of you as a Game Master but I and many other players out there that maybe don't come here to the forums or maybe just give up on trying something that's already hard and become harder would appreciate if you can consider this as a change in the near future. PD: i'm wasn't trying to argue or show off that I'm discontent , I didn't try to be toxic by using bold in the most important terms of the previous post I made, and if you took it like that, I apologize.
  9. Hanzemon

    Development Update 04.10.2017

    Swing timers are now properly reset at the end of a cast for all appropriate spell casts, including those by creatures I don't like the fact that Shamans and other Hybrid classes can't cast spells in between Swings, this mechanic is very healthy and makes sinergy with the CLEARCASTING Talent in Shamans. This is a DIRECT NERF to the class and I'm affected myself by this change, I built the entire strategy for DPSing as an Enh/Ele Hybrid Shaman over this mechanic, making use of Lighning Bolt (rank 1) in between swings so it can get the CLEARCASTING buff more often in order to save mana and get some extra damage with the ELEMENTAL DEVASTATION which gives melee Crit chance on damaging Spell crits, now that talent is COMPLETELY USELESS in PVE with this change as elemental Shamans won't be hitting with melee attacks and Enh Shamans won't be casting damaging Spells with a cast time / won't be getting spell crits that often... I hope this get changed next patch so more people can enjoy this beautiful class and be able to create some nice strategy to keep longer in the meta and being able to DPS in PVE.
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