Horde wall-jumping abuse - Is this punishable?

[Rithynn 0]

Hey team!

Divans a horde shaman held up our Warsong Gultch for an extended period today due to turtling on top of the horde base through jumping up the wall.

This position creates a clear advantage for the faction exploiting it. Is this considered as punishable behaviour?

http://imgur.com/a/FDlAv

I found a way to counter the strategy via Mind Controlling her off, but by the time i managed to do so most of the offense had wiped... 

[Worldstar 36]

You don't even need to wall jump to get up there. You just jump against the pole coming out of the ground.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Worldstar

[Rithynn 0]

Wall-jumping/ pole-jump, little difference in a situation like this tbh. 

I've just never seen anything like this ever so surely it's not allowed. 

[rokidokitoki 1]

At level 19 actions like this are commonplace and reporting people does not lead to a ban. Anyone can jump to this specific spot and not even with specific types of jump, just jumping into the wall, however if you have a small character model, like a female human female dwarf or female gnome you cant jump as high on the pole, which gimps small model melee characters. I'll get into the definition of safespotting from elysium in a minute but consider the following:

Alliance teams with female dwarves/gnomes and female humans will consistently run straight through the fence on the alliance side as if it doesnt exist, and only small models can follow them, which gimps every single melee horde model except female undead, because they are literally the only horde model small enough to run through and stay in melee range for long enough to land a kill. Despite being a race exclusive terrain based exploit, they never consider this abuse to be safespotting even though it is 100% IMPOSSIBLE for all but one model to follow. You could argue that the alliance exploit allows melee to wait on the other side of the fence, but that requires that every horde team stack people on both sides (because you can run through the fence both ways with a small model) just to have a similar chance of killing the efc that the alliance have because there is no fence for the horde to exploit that only a few horde models can run through and the alliance cant. This faction specific, race based terrain exploit does not EVER, i repeat EVER lead to a ban. I've opened a multitude of tickets to report people and the general rule seems to be as long as you don't "safe spot", or go out of bounds, anything goes.
Basically, in my experience with constantly reporting people, all terrain exploits and jumps are allowed unless you safespot or go "out of bounds".

I've done some digging and I got there exact definition of safespotting from their ToU:

"c ). Safespotting

Safespotting is prohibited under all circumstances. This is the act of engaging in PvP combat while exploiting a position that cannot be reached with basic jumping (no wall-climbing), or engaging enemy players while being in an advantageous position where guards cannot reach you due to pathing, line of sight, or any other game mechanic."

So by their definition it's not even safespotting until he tries engage people from that location and you cant kill him back, which is more the case with invisible walls etc. They say basic jumps are okay and honestly you only need basic, non specific, jumps to get up this pole. There are racial limitations on it however, like the common alliance terrain exploit, but just like the various exploits on alliance side, don't actually constitute safespotting

To further press this issue, they state in the ToU:

"Certain behaviour goes beyond what is considered fair and are considered a violation of this agreement. This behaviour includes, but is not limited to, the following:

Using or exploiting errors in design, features, and/or bugs to gain access that is otherwise not available, to facilitate and/or grant you an advantage over other players."

Now this part of the ToU is basically ignored in this context, it's the part of the ToU I always try to cite when reporting people but it never seems to work. Faction specific and model size specific terrain exploits definitely constitute as a player using: "errors in design" (like the "hole" in the alliance fence only small models can run through, or jumping up the pole on horde side where small  models cant follow) to "gain access" (to another area of the map) which "grants them an advantage" (using thes exploits gimps melee players first and foremost because if they are the wrong race, they cant follow and stay in range to do damage, thus granting a distinct advantage to the small model that abused the "error in design")

Even though it is clearly stated and discussed in the ToU nobody I've reported for these infractions has ever been banned.

So back to my main point. In my extensive ticketing experience, If they aren't safespotting or out of bounds they are likely not going to have action taken against them.

Have a good one.

 

PS: A lot of players will go "GM fishing". They whisper GMs to try and get them to "clarify" what constitutes ban-worthy terrain exploiting. These people will describe the scenario out of context in a specific way to a GM to make the action sound okay and as if it isn't exploiting. They will get the GM to say "that's allowed" or "you cant get banned for that". Once the GM states this they take a screen shot and have plausible deniability to say they "didn't know" it was against the rules and if they are ever going to be banned, they just pull out the GM conversation where they said it was okay and they get unbanned.

 

Edited January 23, 2017 by rokidokitoki
Description of GM fishing some people do

[gustanoid 2]

When you noobs will stop complaining about these things?

[Rithynn 0]

16 hours ago, rokidokitoki said:

At level 19 actions like this are commonplace and reporting people does not lead to a ban. Anyone can jump to this specific spot and not even with specific types of jump, just jumping into the wall, however if you have a small character model, like a female human female dwarf or female gnome you cant jump as high on the pole, which gimps small model melee characters. I'll get into the definition of safespotting from elysium in a minute but consider the following:

Alliance teams with female dwarves/gnomes and female humans will consistently run straight through the fence on the alliance side as if it doesnt exist, and only small models can follow them, which gimps every single melee horde model except female undead, because they are literally the only horde model small enough to run through and stay in melee range for long enough to land a kill. Despite being a race exclusive terrain based exploit, they never consider this abuse to be safespotting even though it is 100% IMPOSSIBLE for all but one model to follow. You could argue that the alliance exploit allows melee to wait on the other side of the fence, but that requires that every horde team stack people on both sides (because you can run through the fence both ways with a small model) just to have a similar chance of killing the efc that the alliance have because there is no fence for the horde to exploit that only a few horde models can run through and the alliance cant. This faction specific, race based terrain exploit does not EVER, i repeat EVER lead to a ban. I've opened a multitude of tickets to report people and the general rule seems to be as long as you don't "safe spot", or go out of bounds, anything goes.
Basically, in my experience with constantly reporting people, all terrain exploits and jumps are allowed unless you safespot or go "out of bounds".

I've done some digging and I got there exact definition of safespotting from their ToU:

"c ). Safespotting

Safespotting is prohibited under all circumstances. This is the act of engaging in PvP combat while exploiting a position that cannot be reached with basic jumping (no wall-climbing), or engaging enemy players while being in an advantageous position where guards cannot reach you due to pathing, line of sight, or any other game mechanic."

So by their definition it's not even safespotting until he tries engage people from that location and you cant kill him back, which is more the case with invisible walls etc. They say basic jumps are okay and honestly you only need basic, non specific, jumps to get up this pole. There are racial limitations on it however, like the common alliance terrain exploit, but just like the various exploits on alliance side, don't actually constitute safespotting

To further press this issue, they state in the ToU:

"Certain behaviour goes beyond what is considered fair and are considered a violation of this agreement. This behaviour includes, but is not limited to, the following:

Using or exploiting errors in design, features, and/or bugs to gain access that is otherwise not available, to facilitate and/or grant you an advantage over other players."

Now this part of the ToU is basically ignored in this context, it's the part of the ToU I always try to cite when reporting people but it never seems to work. Faction specific and model size specific terrain exploits definitely constitute as a player using: "errors in design" (like the "hole" in the alliance fence only small models can run through, or jumping up the pole on horde side where small  models cant follow) to "gain access" (to another area of the map) which "grants them an advantage" (using thes exploits gimps melee players first and foremost because if they are the wrong race, they cant follow and stay in range to do damage, thus granting a distinct advantage to the small model that abused the "error in design")

Even though it is clearly stated and discussed in the ToU nobody I've reported for these infractions has ever been banned.

So back to my main point. In my extensive ticketing experience, If they aren't safespotting or out of bounds they are likely not going to have action taken against them.

Have a good one.

 

PS: A lot of players will go "GM fishing". They whisper GMs to try and get them to "clarify" what constitutes ban-worthy terrain exploiting. These people will describe the scenario out of context in a specific way to a GM to make the action sound okay and as if it isn't exploiting. They will get the GM to say "that's allowed" or "you cant get banned for that". Once the GM states this they take a screen shot and have plausible deniability to say they "didn't know" it was against the rules and if they are ever going to be banned, they just pull out the GM conversation where they said it was okay and they get unbanned.

 

Thanks for the insightful information! :~) I was just looking for some clarity into the situation, and you have provided that!
 

1 hour ago, gustanoid said:

When you noobs will stop complaining about these things?

This however is not insightful and clearly didn't look into my original post.

[Shineyy 1]

so you spend your days hopping in WSG, getting owned and reporting people because of it?

 

puke.