Really Frustrated with Frost AOE Grinding...Need Help

[Firkragnaros 0]

Just a shot in the dark here but I'm having a tough time frost AOE grinding and need some guidance. I'm currently a lv47 frost mage with a 4k mana pool, rank 3 nova and coc and rank 4 blizzard, and +103 spell power from items. I'm having a big issue with mana control. I'll nova, blink away, cast blizzard x2 then hit the pack with coc. I blink away and maybe get 1 more nova off but then I'm oom and the pack is usually around 30% still. Are my spell levels too high? I figure the more damage output the better but I can't seem to keep my mana up enough to get through even a pack of 3 mobs 1-2 levels below me. Anyway, I attached my talent tree so any advice would be great. This is my first mage char and I really want to get this down.

https://imgur.com/a/xXkee

https://imgur.com/a/H42lj

[Zancon 117]

This is a spec issue, you should be like this for level 47;

https://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#obZZVA0fcfzAo

basically you don't take improved nova and shatter. You need 5/5 ice shards and your Imp Blizzard and permafrost points are swapped from what they should be. You also don't take cold snap - that is for PVP mostly for double block.

Then you want to start going down arcane, starting with subtlety.

You end with this at 60;

https://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#of0Ab0cZZVA0fcbzAo

[killakam808 0]

With 5/5 Arcane Explosion you enter clearcasting procs monitor these procs with preferably powerauras so u can see an icon light up so u can tell when u enter clearcasting and when u proc it use your highest rank Arcane xposion and when you dont have Clearcasting proc'd use Rank 1 Arcane Xplosion so you can tag  3-20 mob packs and u will enter clearcasting because ur rank 1 tags so many mobs thus giving u a ton of mana to use for  your highest rank Arcane Xplosion. 

 

Do the above after you nova ran away blizzarded the mobs and they'll all be dead fast its how i do like 15  Elite dark iron dwarfs in one pull in BRD. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by killakam808

[Firkragnaros 0]

Thanks y'all! I'll give those a go.

[Sillyturtle 0]

You don't need Imp Arcane explosion for Frost Grinding at all. Worry about that later when you have more points to spend. 

 

The spec Zancon gave you is pretty good, except for one ENORMOUS mistake. Cold Snap is 100% vital for any AOE Frost mage.

 

Pulls get messed up. Mistakes happen. You get jumped, resists occur, etc. Having Cold Snap as a Reset button is absolutely invaluable. Remove 1 point from Arcane Subtlety and put it into Cold Snap so that you're 1/0/37 at level 47. 

As someone who mained Mage from Retail Vanilla Wow until the end of Cataclysm, I would not give anyone different advice.

[Zancon 117]

What turtle said is viable until you get more comfortable AOE grinding. You will learn the patterns on how the mobs path and how to control them and wont need cold snap any more after awhile. On the off chance you do mess up, just blink / run and reset them and try again rather than blowing cooldowns and using it as a crutch.

There is more than one way to AoE grind - you have to find what you are comfortable with. To me, the cold snap point is wasted. To others its vital. The spec I posted is where you would be without having to respec for dungeons and raiding later. In any event I hope you have success and are able to meet all of your goals in game!

[Firkragnaros 0]

I can definitely understand both arguments. At first as I was researching AOE grinding all of the specs people had out there included CS as a talent, so I just assumed it made sense to have it. However, I am conscious of the respec costs as I've already respeced one time and now my cost is at 5g to respec again. Just because you mentioned, Zancon, that your spec is good for dungens and raids later on and I wouldn't have to respec right away after reaching 60 is a good perk. Ultimately I do want to respec to fire at 60 as frost I'm finding too boring personally to want to continue with it when I start end game raiding, but not having to respec frost to remove CS once I reach 60 and start the gear grind sounds like the better choice. Again thanks for the advice everyone!

Edited January 24, 2018 by Firkragnaros

[Nixor 0]

"and +103 spell power from items."  

Blizzard overall gets very little from spellpower. AoE gets 33%. Channeled spells get 20% every second if they're 5 seconds long for 100% over 5 seconds. If they are above 5 seconds, they do not get additional spellpower added, only less added every second.
Making it worse for Blizzard and Hellfire, compared to Fireball (100% added) or Frostbolt (80% added)

Have you tried dropping some spellpower gear pieces and focusing on INT/Stamina where possible?

 

[Firkragnaros 0]

3 hours ago, Nixor said:

Have you tried dropping some spellpower gear pieces and focusing on INT/Stamina where possible?

No, I still like to run dungeons from time to time so I prioritize damage with my gear. But I see where you're going with that. I probably should have a second set of gear for grinding. That's a good point.

[Firkragnaros 0]

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 8:22 AM, Zancon said:

This is a spec issue, you should be like this for level 47;

https://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#obZZVA0fcfzAo

basically you don't take improved nova and shatter. You need 5/5 ice shards and your Imp Blizzard and permafrost points are swapped from what they should be. You also don't take cold snap - that is for PVP mostly for double block.

Then you want to start going down arcane, starting with subtlety.

You end with this at 60;

https://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#of0Ab0cZZVA0fcbzAo

Can you post these builds again Zancun? The links are broken.

[Zancon 117]

Just now, Firkragnaros said:

Can you post these builds again Zancun? The links are broken.

For some reason Vanilla gaming changed their name and it broke the links fixed below;

http://classicdb.ch/?talent#obZZVA0fcfzAo

http://classicdb.ch/?talent#of0Ab0cZZVA0fcbzAo

[Firkragnaros 0]

6 hours ago, Zancon said:

For some reason Vanilla gaming changed their name and it broke the links fixed below;

http://classicdb.ch/?talent#obZZVA0fcfzAo

http://classicdb.ch/?talent#of0Ab0cZZVA0fcbzAo

Looks like they're down again. Can you post to imgur?

[Zancon 117]

At work so I can't now - but they seem to be working again.

[Firkragnaros 0]

It was, I took a screenshot. Thanks again! It's been working for me plus saving a second set of items/armor for grinding that has high Int bonuses. Only issue I'm having is messing up on my rotation because of daze, missing a mob on my blizzard, blinking/running too far away to drop blizzard, or mobs that resist. As I work with it more and get more comfortable with it, those issues are coming up less and less, and it it happens I just reset and try again if I don't die. No mana issues at all anymore is the best thing though.

[Zancon 117]

Awesome man, glad its working out for you. There will be a time when you pretty much never miss anymore and everything will be second nature.

[n3xtlevelplays 0]

On 1/23/2018 at 8:22 AM, Zancon said:

This is a spec issue, you should be like this for level 47;

https://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#obZZVA0fcfzAo

basically you don't take improved nova and shatter. You need 5/5 ice shards and your Imp Blizzard and permafrost points are swapped from what they should be. You also don't take cold snap - that is for PVP mostly for double block.

Then you want to start going down arcane, starting with subtlety.

You end with this at 60;

https://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#of0Ab0cZZVA0fcbzAo

This is very very extremely wrong.

1. 5/5 winter's chill is useless. Blizzard doesn't crit, so the only significant spell this affects is CoC, and even then it's negligible since normal mobs will be dead before you build up enough stacks to notice it.

2. 5/5 improved frostbolt is useless for AoE grinding because you don't use frostbolt. Even if you did, it's not as good as it looks because of some GCD and spellpower mechanics

3. Cold snap is 100% essential. When something resists frost nova, you can just cold snap and re-nova instead of resetting, saving you all the time you otherwise would have spent running away, eating & drinking to full again, and then throwing your keyboard at a wall because some other mage stole your pull while you were resetting.

4. Improved frost nova is 100% essential. Frost nova is one of the most important spells you have. Without improved frost nova, after casting 2x blizzard, you'll still have to kite everything for ~2 seconds while you wait on nova to come off cooldown.

 

Here is a much better spec at level 47:

https://classicdb.ch/?talent#of0MZZbNMIsfzho

And extended to 60:

https://classicdb.ch/?talent#ofMVcocZZbAMIsfzho

[Zancon 117]

If all you do is AOE and you never plan on trying to single target anyone or get ganked then yes you would be correct. To each their own on the playstyle.