Nosleep

just because its inefficient doesnt means its not the same thing... the principle is mine, and many others point, its not he mob farming, its the unfair pvp win trading. By that logic, if i do normal win trading, but i dont do it very well and we take too long and generate honor slowly, would that be ok? no. there is a solution to win trading, as i stated in another post, you can also win trade and do it more than them to mean you beat them in honor brackets = pvp solution. but win trading is against the rules, so win trading back is against the rules. if win trading in bg's and out of bg's are the same thing and imo they are, then the only solution to this problem is for people to use the same tactic, which when being understood as unfair, like normal win trading, is only advocating cheating to beat cheaters.

honor kills.

Also, funny side note: Quoting blizz T;s and C's on a server that by just existing is breaking them, only shows that we dont care about blizz rules and we 'pick n choose' which ones to follow. I, and some others, feel there is a need to discus the comparison between win trading in bg's and win trading out of them.

As i said in a previous post, I think he didnt take the PVP aspect into it and draw the obvious comparisons between win trading in bg and win trading out of bg.. why 1 is ok and the other not? And I am sure pottu is very smart and very good at his job.. but like all human beings, no one is above missing the point, as you so clearly prove with your posts.

So what youre saying is that because there is no literal explanation of this exact situation that it should not be looked at? So if someone finds an exploit that helps them win honor unfairly (as with normal wintrading which wasnt against the rules on vanilla release and was only made bannable once it was 'discovered' ppl were doing it) that has not yet been explained or looked at, we should not ever look at it and allow it to continue because we dont make new rules for an ever changing world?? hmmm thats not a very smart approach to new situations

wiki is not an authorised source.

You seem to be refusing to even explore the idea that if 'normal' win trading is against the rules, then it should be the same anywhere that the principle is present. IE: spying and telling the opposite faction about an incoming raid would still require each faction to win in a fair battle.... but when you actively help them to gain honor points by assisting them in the battle, then its exactly the same as win trading and so should be looked upon so.

I can play that game too, the world is a battle ground by definition, unless you can show me a link, source, citation, anywhere has it been said that the world is not a battleground

On a PVP server, the world is a battleground. Actively helping the opposite faction to win pvp battles and them helping you, is win trading. Edit: if each faction worked together to farm mobs but didnt help each other to win pvp battles, they wouldnt be doing anything wrong.

win trading

lol you qouted me and missed the 1st line of my post?? I said farming mobs is NOT against the rules. But opposite factions helping each other in a pvp setting is.

Farming mobs is not against teh rules even if its co-op between horde and ally. But because in order to farm them they have to engage in PVP.. and so 1 faction is directly helping the other faction to win in a pvp setting. that is win trading. Assuming the 'concept# of win trading is helping the opposite faction to win in a pvp setting, the only ''player based solution'' is to win trade back?? Is that your argument? Because opposite factions helping each other to win in a pvp setting is exactly win trading. Even the normal win trading in bg's has a player based solution under these arguments.. win trade more than the other guys win trading.. that is at present the best argument the 'defenders of this win trade' have to offer. I dont think @pottu would endorse that and wasnt endorsing that, but then i dont think he has taken the PVP aspect of this co-op into it yet, but i personally think he should, because they are win trading

I thought win trading and 'spying' were against the rules?

lol wtf... but lol :P

In pure maths, assuming the 'dice roll' is pure random 9 sided dice (which i know pure random isnt possible in a generated roll) but assuming it was truly random... its possible you may get 8 billion runs with none .. then 1 billion runs in a row where it drops every time. probability even when calculated, is only actually 'true' AKA: exactly 1/9 over an infinite time line. there is no such thing as ''the chance is X so then it 'must' drop sooner or later'' ... in a true random probability. all % drops are only true over an infinite time scale.

scarab lord matters in 2017 :D You all sound like ppl in 2009 transfering to new realms to 'achieve' the scarab lord title roflmao Whats next? Oh we are as good as nilihium cos 10+ years later, with updated and well known strats.... dont need to learn my class the hard way.. ill just read 12 years of acquired info and be an insta master... then claim we killed nax. I love pvt servers cos they let me play old wow again... but the knowledge base has developed soo much with step by step guides on every single boss... it can never be as hard as it was... the reason it was hard was cos we had to learn these things... not have the info spoon fed by the giants of the past, then to repeat it like tracing a drawing then claiming youre an artist :D go go scarab lord! :D on a serious note: gratz to any and all who do this grind, always loved the co-op part of this :)

If your memory is correct, then it must of been in a later patch.

I'm not sure what experiences you have had in BG's as horde. I am horde and I would say ...(though i have only just dinged 60 the other day i did pvp some to get rank 3 for mount then kept it up a little each week while levelling so as to not drop a rank and went up to rank 4) ...that most of the time ppl are motivated and focused, trying their best to work as a team and we win more often than lose, as horde, but thats just my experience so far and not at 60, so maybe that will change. The only real prob I have seen so far is the same probs in pug bg's that have existed since day 1.. and they are 1: ppl dont always agree on tactics, which leads to BS arguing and so lowers team spirit. (unfortunate but some ppl just cant compromise their idea's of whats the 'best' tactic for a specific situation and have to be the 1 who 'tells' everyone how to play and often even states ''L2P NOOBS'' which is also often a direct reason for... 2: some silly mentality person who is more focused on pointing out mistakes in a ridiculing manner than playing or who is just someone who enjoys name calling ppl when they themselves are ofc immune to mistakes or the need to learn. but them things are the same on horde and ally. I hope your experience gets better... if not.. then you should try to make friends or forum posts to create a premade group who can debate/agree on tactics.

interesting side note: I have never bought gold, but in principle i dont have a giant issue with it, that is to say if i was king of the universe, i wouldnt ban gold selling, but because im not and i dont like cheating... i will report gold sellers as its something we and the developers have agreed to being unfair, or against the pre-designated rules. how can i think that you ask? well... in game gold takes time to generate.. so as we all .. sorry, most (not a personal dig, just a generalisation), of us know.. gold = time and time = gold. So when i farm gold i spend time to get it... just like when i go to work i spend time to make money...time i could of spent in game generating gold.. but.. someone else spent that time in game generating gold and will trade my IRL time (cash) for their in game time (gold). so in principle.. its a time for time trade. just like boosting for gold.. i (the buyer) spent time generating gold instead of getting geared up and farming the item/achi/pvp honor/rank etc etc... they (the boosters) spend their time getting me what i want and in return i give them gold i gained from spending time elsewhere.... and so again, its a time for time trade. I am NOT advocating gold selling, or boosting for that matter, its just an interesting topic when you boil it all down, imo. just food for thought.

gold = time time = gold in wow they are exactly the same thing. actually IRL they are the same thing too, but that was obvious i thought. a boost is selling time for gold... selling an item on AH is selling time for gold. (time someone spent to get it that otherwise you would of had to spend that time) selling crafted items on AH or in trade for more than the cost of the mats is time for gold. (time it would of taken you to gather the mats and find a friend to craft it for free, if you could) The entire of WoW economy is based on time for gold. items = gold or time. gold = time or items. time = gold or items.

As I said at the beginning of my last post. I did not miss your point.. i just totally disagree with it. If a BOE item drops thats worth X gold... its value is irrelevant if its an item that someone needs.. because they need the item... saying you can convert that item into gold to buy another item and so taking it from someone who actually needs the item... is needing for gold....AKA: ninja. What if the item that drops is not on AH and so the player who needs it can not farm gold in any of the other million ways there are to get gold to buy BOE items from AH??... Why should he pass up.... (by pass up i mean let everyone need it and so roll for it giving the player who needs it a best case 5 man 80% chance of losing that roll and worst case 10-40 man 90% - 97.5% chance to lose) ....on the item he can not currently get on AH, because it is, for example, a rare drop.. or like on ZK atm, a new server.. or any of the other reasons they might otherwise struggle to get said item. Maybe they cant afford to buy the item on AH.. but i guess if thats the case they could just run 5 mans and need a BOE someone else needs and buy the item you took from them yesterday huh? .. what a lovely community feeling that is. edit: Please tell me your ingame name if you play on ZK so i know never to group with you. Take an example.. you say that because everyone can sell it then they all deserve the chance to sell it... so then no one can ever need a BOE item, cos when you equip a BOE item you need, your not being lucky getting an item you need.. you're just saving money..... and those poor guys could of sold it on AH and bought an item with that gold.... but its still needing for gold... Just because a BOP item worth 15g to vendor 'would' be worth 100g if it was BOE does not change the principle of needing the ''gold that can be gained from the item irrespective of where the gold comes from, because it will buy them an upgrade or help to buy an upgrade'' IE: BOE item worth 100g drops... I, using your principle, need the item to sell it on AH...but.. im selling it on AH to buy another item from AH that is worth 150g.. so all i did was add to my pile of gold to eventually have enough to buy whatever item it is... thats just needing for gold to add to my pile to eventually buy an item... and is no different to needing BOP items with high vendor price to add to that same pile.. the principle is needing an item to sell that someone needs to use. I could need 3 100g BOE items to eventually buy the BOE item i need... where does it end... what if 3 BiS BOP items will make the amount i need? its the same thing. you are needing for gold.. and there are a million other ways to make gold that dont take items from ppl that may.. for all you know.. not have another way at present to get the item. And even if they did have other ways.... so do you... and needing that drop to convert it into an item you need when someone needs the actual item that drops, is needing for gold.. and so greed. Edit: they were lucky an item they need drops... you were not.. but you might be another time....just like if its your turn at the end boss for your BiS item.. gratz!! not ''oh i can sell that and it will give me enough to buy an item'' .. its gratz... .. and maybe, if youre that desperate for gold you will take items ppl need just to get it... on another run you might get a BOE that no one needs and so all roll greed (or all need if you have trust issues) and gain the gold! There is a huge diofference, its a pitty you dont see it.

Ditto mate on missing the point... which is the principle! (also, nice sarcastic attitude opening to your post, boy do i feel like this is a mature debate now) Funny thing is, if you had of read my post, you would see that I didnt miss the point you and others like you are making.. I just totally disagree with it... you however, did totally miss mine... but that I assume, was your intention. Ill explain in detail... maybe then you will actually understand what is wrong with your entire principle.. but you will more than likely just say TLDR cos you have no comeback. If its OK to need for gold.. then its ok to need for gold... unless you have some imaginary number in your head where its ok to need if its worth more than 50g but if its worth less then its not ok??... or because you can sell it on AH then i can need, but because you can only vendor it i cant? Which has more holes than swis cheese... You are needing an item to sell it... so you are needing for gold... selling to AH makes no difference .... there are bop items that sell to vendor for enough gold to buy me an upgrade from AH.. so the principle.. is shameful to defend. Greed is Greed.... just because item X is worth 100g on AH and item Y is worth 10g to vendor, does not change the fact you are needing an item to sell it - AKA: GREED, that someone else could use AKA: NEED Your argument is that because you can sell it on AH then that means you are allowed to need it even when someone will equip it and use it now because they NEED the item.. NOT the gold.... .. oh but you need the gold to buy an item... well.. i need the gold from your BiS BOP item worth 15g at vendor cos that will directly buy me an upgrade from AH or add to a pile that is going to buy me an upgrade from AH... but you fail to see the point there, or you see it and refuse to acknowledge it. So your argument is that selling an item to then buy another item is as much of a need as using the item... and so.. unless this logic train is too difficult for you to follow.. ... i submit to you that you are needing an item to sell it and how is that different to needing BOP items to sell... the principle is the same.. again... unless you have an imaginary number in your head thats makes it ok to suddenly decide that gold is a NEED. If you truly feel that needing for gold is perfectly ok just because you're eventually getting the gold from AH instead of the vendor... you're either purposefully defending the idea because you dont want to admit its being a greedy ninja (prob cos you have done it) or its because you are so blinkered by your need for gold that you actually believe gold is a need.

Just logged in on ZK

They had DDOS probs recently? May be its that?