Imbaslap

even still. the bug report was referencing ALL judgements stacking with multiple ranks as stated in the bug report. (including multiple judgement of wisdom, light, and crusader) like i said above. if you want to argue that Jotc stacked up to 2x max and gave benefit from both sources. make a new bug report to add that in. but the overall evidence shown in regards to JoW and JoL stacking up to 4x+ like it did on Elysium before the report came in, there has been 0 evidence showing that those 2 judgements should stack above 1. JotC argument can be a totally different issue separate from the original bug report. if that makes more sense. since the only evidence being shown is regarding Jotc.. and not JoW or JoL. make a new report stating JotC should stack to 2 max and give benefit.. and link your sources/evidence/math and argue the point. as of right now, there is 0 evidence on why JoW or JoL should stack with multiple ranks. that is what the bug report was about. if people actually read the report, you would understand what it was about. so far the only evidence you have mathematically is from a blizzard PTR, which is not a LIVE source of proof. irregardless if the 40 man paladin video counts or not due to being a PTR video, it still wont be adequate enough to argue that every judgement in the game should behave the same way as Jotc was during the PTR and during TBC while being bugged (the visual bug referenced in wotlk patch note/2.4.0 patch note as well linked by Roadblock on the github). honestly, this falls on you all if you think JoTC was bugged for 2 expansions of wow but JoW and JoL worked correctly. but again, this is on you to prove that.. since there hasn't been any information or evidence showing they should... developers will always go with common sense and whats best for game balance on their emulated server. better start looking for TBC videos with 2x Jotc with combat logs on the LIVE realm that shows both gaining benefit. otherwise, this case is closed due to insufficient evidence on why it should be broken on a server that is supposed to emulate the ```Live``` game of WoW. (personally, i want to know if jotc bug gave benefit in TBC as well since I am testing a PTE project under Elysium, so an accurate TBC source helps always)

i dont hate paladins, just people who are clueless about the game. good luck with your next bug report on judgement stacking. i look forward to new evidence being presented on why paladins should be the #1 class in the game due to broken mechanics.

or 1 of the 40 paladins reapplied JoTC.... or is 1:03-1:07 a false positive as well? didn't blink that time now did it? now you're just being silly and saying debuffs magically blink off and on? like... what... in a raid of 40 paladins that is too.. with only 1 JoW and 1 JoL as well.... even if the debuffs magically blink off... that would just prove it was a visual bug then.. and not an actual stackable debuff.. because then it's not even behaving as the spell should be. so in essence.. its not even an accurate depiction of 2x ACTUAL jotcs then...because if it did behave correctly, they would last much longer no? lmao.

you're still missing the point.. the damage that the paladin does doesnt matter at all. it doesnt matter if the paladin has 5000 spell power or 5. what matters is this. does 2x jotc give 2x the benefit or not. it's very simple. the snapshots showing 2x jotc's did show consecrate (a static damage over time spell) was not gaining 2x the benefit when 1 faded and then reapplied. not sure what you're missing about that. we're not trying to decypher his gear and such. it's just about multi judgement stacking its benefits. and so far, still 0 evidence showing 4x JoL's or JoW's.. the only remaining debate for @killerduki is 2x jotc. the original state of the judgements were completely bugged and as my avatar shows, completely broken. if you want to debate if the 2x jotcs gave a benefit or not and the wotlk patch note about a visual bug is false, by all means. go ahead. but so far, not a single shred of evidence or math shows it to be the case.

you're misunderstanding how "you take X amount of damage" debuffs work on targets. you cast consecrate on mob. you deal X damage. mob has 1 JOTC on mob, Consecrate gains Y benefit. 2nd JOTC on mob, consecrate stays the same. 2nd JOTC falls off, consecrate stays the same. when you gain a debuff similar to improved scorch. %damage increase or mob takes X amount of extra fire damage (the arcanite dragonling trinket). if there is a fire dot or even a flamestrike on the mob. (even with curse of shadows) the damage over time ground effect increases up. if 2 JOTC's stacked you wouldve seen a drop in damage on consecrate when JOTC fell off. but you didnt see that. you also did not see a "bump" in damage either when a 2nd JOTC was reapplied to the same mob during consecrate. i know its difficult to understand basic game mechanics, but please understand how those selective debuffs behave in the game first before jumping to a conclusion that there is evidence of 2x jotc ever giving benefit to the player. JOTC isnt some special snowflake debuff that behaves entirely seperate from the 5,000 other spells in the game.. i know you love paladins, but that is not how WoW works. you can test it yourself on elysium... here's an example of what i mean. in a duel, fight another paladin drop consecrate... wait for 1 tick then apply jotc debuff and see the result of the consecrate damage go "up". do the same thing but apply JoTC to the player. at 3s left on the debuff, cast consecrate.. watch the damage be high.. when jotc wears off, watch consecrate's damage "drop" due to the +damage taken debuff fading. this applies to every spell in the game that utilizes + damage taken modifier on a mob or player. it still does to this day on retail. @killerduki "You do realize when you cast Consecration before swapping weapon or Judges will do the damage as it did "before you do these changes"? this statement is false and an incorrect understanding on how the spell system behaves. the visual bug is irrelevant. what matters is did the 2 jotc's give a benefit and stacked or did it not. I am simply refuting killerduki's claim that just because you SEE 2 debuffs of JOTC on the mob, doesnt mean that you're gaining a stackable benefit.

are you referring to killerduki's copy and paste from discord or my reply from the bug report? not sure why you're trying to figure out the 78 damage tick for consecration when there was 0 change in damage with 1 jotc on the mob, and 2 jotc on the mob. we arent trying to decypher how much spell damage the paladin has or why he has consecrate for 78 damage. we're discussing why 2x jotc's on a mob do not change the damage when 1 jotc debuff falls off during a consecration tick.

uhh, everyone except you deny the evidence that was shown. it showed the damage didn't change during the video linked. with 2 jotc's on the mob and when 1 wore off. then reapplied with no change in damage at all. i think you need to rewatch the video again. "Imbaslap commented on May 27 • edited the first tick of his consecrate (with 1 JotC up b4 the snapshot of 2) he was doing 71/72 dps a tick with only sanct aura up when he casted. when 2 JoTc is applied, he casted consecrate with all 3 buffs up, JoTc #2 fell off after it ticked 104, reapplied, still 104/105 a tick. http://imgur.com/a/l2tUT at 38s in the video. the debuff wore off... the first tick applied then new JoTC is up.. no change in damage.. now based on how "increase damage taken" modifiers work in wow, that's not how it should behave. it should boost the damage with more damage taken added to the mob. at 48s he casts consecrate again. 2 debuffs up, does 104 dmg.. 2nd debuff falls off, 104 damage again. to me, it seems to be that the 2nd JotC is not increasing the damage taken on the mob. almost like a visual bug? (maybe someone had a source referring to it being visual bug in TBC in patch 2.4.0) maybe same issue occuring here on the PTR. which would explain the behavior of visual bug to me." " the TBC vod shows 2 JoTC debuffs (no combat log cuz in CHINESE BLEH) the 40 man onyxia video showed only 2 JoTC debuffs. the 40 man video based on the math showed that the 2nd JoTC debuff did not give bonus damage to the paladins attacks/consecrate/judgements. all of the above apply to the patch 2.4.0 where blizzard fixed a duplicate Judgement of the Crusader on the mob that provided 0 benefit to the player. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/2-4-0 -Judgement of the Crusader: It is no longer possible to have icons for two different ranks of Judgment of the Crusader appear at the same time when judged by multiple Paladins. notice how there is no other Judgement of light x2 or judgement of wisdom x2?" https://github.com/elysium-project/server/issues/802 all the other remaining videos linked by theloras and yourself only show that the 2.4.0 visual bug was in place.. not that it was doubling its benefit of 2x Jotc on the mob. Best Regards, Imbaslap

there is holy resist though. its not like i was wrong at all or anyone for that matter by looking straight at the client.(0 assumptions there) the only part that was not shown was why blizzard set the resistance to 0 server side. if there was no holy resist, holy spells wouldn't exist because there is no school of magic to calculate the damage for it. different conjectures on that discussion and you still clearly misunderstood what it was about. you were arguing there was no holy resistance at all in the game. what you MEANT to say is that Holy resistance was set to 0 to accommodate the school of magic server side based on a developer's decision at blizzard. (most likely the paladin class lead). but you didn't say that in the discussion at all, just copy and paste your sources and saying it doesn't exist. those 2 meanings do not go together. you make 0 sense when you say one thing shouldn't exist, but then want another.. but it cannot be done if the prior never existed.. bringing that discussion up again just sort of annotates why you're still wrong on certain aspects of the game, mostly because you're trying to say something, but mean something else. hence why i encourage making a "clear and comprehensible" bug report so there is little misunderstanding involved. it takes more time trying to comprehend your copy and paste language then to actually fix the problem. apples to oranges i guess. as for the multi judgement issue.. there was no change in damage when the onyxian warder had 2 Jotc on it and 1 Jotc. the damage did not change on consecrate at all or any of his spells. as for TBC and Wotlk, the same bug was there and removed in wotlk during the lich king fiasco where people thought the guild who used it was abusing a bug to gain an advantage, when it turned out to be a visual bug, granting no benefit at all. hence mentioned in the patch note and in the github report. please reread the report and look at the details shown from all parties involved in the discussion. just because you disagree with the evidence, doesn't mean it should stay bugged on Elysium. Best Regards, Imbaslap

the bug report is still available for viewing on why judgement stacking was removed and never was intended to do so by blizzard. records show up to wrath of the lich king on what occurred after the 1.8 "fix" by blizzard. the only remaining carcass of it was a visual bug clogging the debuff limit that gave 0 benefit which only occurred when 2 paladins judged JOTC at the same time. there were records showing no other judgement stacked off itself after 1.8 in every single alliance kill video. im sorry, but the evidence of 1000+ videos spanning from vanilla, through TBC, and even wotlk show otherwise. not an illogical "opinion" of someone who thinks it does. Best Regards, Imbaslap

i find it funny that most guilds who spend days prepping for world buffs before a raid and all that jazz now finally see the enjoyment of not having to get them and still be competitive. world buffs has always been a crutch and only existed as a potential "benefit" or reward to players who slay bosses in vanilla. this idea was abused heavily in the early stages of TBC and was quickly removed.. as that is not what raiding should be about. it should be about getting in there and playing. not preparing hours in advance to steroid your characters up just to ignore the mechanics of a boss. if you want to make the content more challenging, remove the crutches.

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/issues/2651 should be set for Devs to fix.

that's supposed to happen from the giants.

exploits are exploits.

it was doable up to 2.1 TBC patch where blizzard caught wind of it and fixed the loophole. so essentially elysium closed the loophole blizzard took a longer time to do themselves. http://www.ownedcore.com/forums/world-of-warcraft/world-of-warcraft-exploits/9172-insta-dismiss-pet-hunter.html

i did warn Esfand about it on his stream when he was doing it on rag.. not sure why you think i didnt do that. I think i got timed out on his YT channel that day he did it. after that day, i haven't seen him do it again so i assume he took my comment and looked at the Github report. this was before BWL released, so again this should be a simple fix (somehow its still not fixed surprisingly enough.) maybe that 100 post github and reddit post wasnt enough to expedite the issue. hopefully a guild abuses it on loatheb during Naxx release for anathema and we can all say "i told you so" to the devs for sitting on it for weeks. atleast this time, it will be at the fault of the devs, not the reporters.

<3 the soundtrack.

Fiery weapon didnt proc Fiery weapon.. you're mis-interpreting the combat log. he has a DTC which procs Fatal Wound. he opened on the mob and had a white melee hit and a fatal wound hit. both of those procced their own fiery enchant hit. Fatal wound Spell ID#21140 is what procced it. it also has DamageClass = 2 (SPELL_DAMAGE_CLASS_MELEE) under it (same as sinister strike) which would explain why fiery weapon procced as it "thought" fatal wound was a melee spell. same case goes for Vis'kag as well. i COULD be wrong about this, but i'm sure a Developer would know more on why certain melee spells procced weapon enchants/spells attached to the weapon than I could. but if anyone remembers the Retail WoW DTC bug where fatal wound could proc off itself and WF amplified the proc amount? probably similar case as above. the rest of the videos are all early wow patches which are irrelevant today.(except akrios one) the 1st TF video was 1.6 when TF and WF could basically proc themselves over and over again. this was fixed in later wow patches due to game balance reasoning. the akrios video shows him getting 2 procs (1 with MH hit which was then cluttered by TF proc, followed by the OH hit. the floating combat text doesnt show the actions of damage in order, especially the blizzard's version where if you get multiple hits at once, it gets cluttered and you need a combat log to determine what really occurred.) it also could be from what i mentioned above with fatal wound as those abilities are considered damage class = 2. (not 100% sure if that's even the right theory as that's the only thing i notice in common). you would need to find more about similar abilities forcing procs from main hand enchants/procs attached to the weapon and apply your theory there if there is a certain pattern involved. BRD2man video is false. he has a FRD + ungoro crystal thorns buff. not sure where you're getting this nature damage from shield spike idea from and it proccing stuff. he is still attacking a target while blocking (proccing FRD) and casting sunder. the timeline of this video also was before the FRD change in the patch notes to stop it from proccing other things. (forgot the patch note but im sure you can find it in 5mins on google or something, i could be wrong though.) http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.9.0 "The Force Reactive Disk's and Cloak of Fire's effects will no longer gain a benefit from effects that increase spell damage." he is also using a flask of Supreme power in the video with greater arcane elixir. this was fixed in a later patch and the damage values you see are old. the thorium shield spike spell (for the record, all of the shield spikes even) dont even classify as any particular spell school other than SpellSchool = 0 (SPELL_SCHOOL_NORMAL). not sure why you would see a resist with that spell to begin with.. also, a Developer would have a better understanding of the game mechanics and spell behaviors the most here. ##ofcourse inb4 thread lock.## direct these concerns to the bug tracker and provide better research/interpretation of the game mechanics you think are bugged/inaccurate. posting this on the forum doesnt really do anything except show your lack of game knowledge/interpretation of game mechanics with an entitled attitude of "fix this now because im loud". also, download QT Spellwork as a tip to learn more about the game before making more "rant" posts on here, spreading misinformation.

want to increase population on anathema? go back and fix all the crap still broken with AQ/ZG etc. also undo those custom retarded changes made to onyxia making it not even blizzlike at all. the biggest hemorrhage that was dealt to anathema was the botched war effort and event. the fact that you had over 40 guilds ready to farm bugs and contribute with eachother for the scepter quest only to be cut down by custom changes, rushing unfinished content, and ofcourse the best part, killing community in the game over a fucking special snowflake mount that doesn't fucking matter or change the game in anyway. well i bet that fucking snowflake mount surely is worth keeping on a dead server now isn't it? (best logic 2017) rather than its community of players. the only way to get anathema back on track is to delete elysium and have 1 server progress all the way into TBC. you cannot have 2 "seasons" or ladders running at once at different patch levels. the fact that you released elysium when anathema didnt even have AQ out was sad to begin with. you shouldve continued where Anathema left off with everything opened from MC-BWL- ZG and others. and boost Darrowshire's patch progression up to 1.8. you're essentially running 3 diablo 3 seasons at once.. 3 diablo 2 ladders at once, 3 path of exile leagues at once without letting the first one finish before you start another. (a better context for people to understand). why would anyone continue on anathema to see a botched naxxramas as the "beta test" realm, washing down the feeling of accomplishment and even nostalgia. what fun would it be to kill a broken boss, with broken trash that are missing half their abilities etc? its not fun and its the quickest way to turn players away from the game. as of right now, the only way to get a better experience (from MC/ony/bwl/zg/AQ) is to reroll on elysium to experience a non shitshow experience since it already occurred on anathema and was fixed. people playing on anathema currently should just accept that they are the beta testers for Elysium so content isnt complete dog poo when it comes out a year or 2 later for their golden child Elysium server. if that isnt for you, you should just do what many other guilds have done.. reroll to elysium and have community again, or quit playing all together instead of soiling your experience by being a professional beta tester on a forgotten, dead realm. the truth hurts and the fallout is elysium's problem to deal with.. best bet is to just get naxx out, fix it, then delete anathema/darrowshire and just be 1 realm. cut the cancer off before it infects the rest of the project. A lesson learned is to never open more than 1 realm on different patch cycles without a battlegroup system in place to allow pvpers/community to still occur. (see patch 1.12 for battlegroup implementation to solve low pop realms pvp scene without hindering pve at all... also on same patch progression as well.. learn from blizzard) right now, the only way to experience a not shit AQ event would be rolling on elysium with 9k people... like Anathema/Nost would've had without the shenanigans going down. and hopefully not another round of custom snowflakey mount being shoved down the player's throats.

people still play on anathema? thats a good one. who would want to play on a beta test realm for the golden child Elysium? :P

did anyone even play nost TBC during its PTR? or are you all in denial on the quality that it was back then? all mobs did 1 damage and floating in the air. it was literally stock CMangos tbc 2.4.3 with lots of DB stuff missing and who knows what else.. nothing worked. it's discontinued and even if Elysium wanted to do TBC, they would need some big help in that scene (maybe another project with opensource like vengeance or something) that coincides with their structure. since elysium vanilla is opensource, the most logical approach would be TBC opensource.. meaning working with CMangos devs in TBC. there is no way in hell gummy will take the risk of "giving a free TBC core" to another project that could link it back to himself. considering the C&D he got handed in person. at that point, you want nothing to do with wow emulation. anyone banking on elysium getting more freebies is delusional and should just stop talking. felmyst is dead and gummy is done with wow emu. stop expecting miracles and someone's hard work be given to a project as a freebie to save your dying realm. as for TBC speculation: i'd expect vengeancewow and elysium working together by having elysium run CMangos TBC and feeding the opensource community with commits. that is if Xsavior/killerwife even wants to see TBC CMangos thrive. atleast it will boost the quality a bit if a project is backing them up with a large playerbase and opensource contributers. atleast then, elysium uses it's resources of hosting to run the server while giving back to the CMangos community. i mean.. its not like anyone plays on vengeance wow or cares to with how it was run. (im sure elysium would fair better than Vengeancewow in regards to running a project, but that is my opinion) Elysium provides the hosting while the opensource community thrives with commits. that way CMangos devs have 0 risk of C&D or getting gummy'd while seeing their work thrive.

certain members of the community couldn't handle the downvote abuse.

problazer is alliance.

personally i'd recommend 15 agi. 15 Agi modifies more than just "threat" it also affects rage generation amongst other things.. 2% threat means nothing in a mitigation fight where you're hungry for rage to expend. without it, you're threat is meaningless. 2% for "vael" could be argued with unlimited rage expenditure mix it up and try both. but i'd argue 15agi for mitigation gear, 2% threat for TPS gear. 2% would gradually increase your threat output per ability than 15 agi would. (2% threat also modifies sunder armor threat where 15 agi does not) Agi grants dodge for mitigation etc. you can see where i am going with this. also keep in mind that not everyone will have world buffs (most guilds cant even keep world buffs for the entirety of AQ40) also consider future content and bosses (if you havent even touched c'thun, those giant claws will give you a nice taste). later bosses would require more mitigation vs TPS. on patchwerk as a hateful tank, threat is meaningless and mitigation is everything.

Blacklisted actually never beta tested for elysium nor care to. another reason why the raid release was so sloppy too. (just look at AQ20) someday, we will experience the ossirian fight as it was on retail.... someday...

the real question is.. what are you emulating or attempting to emulate. Vanilla wow? or Convenient Vanilla wow.