Improved fishing skill gains?

[Theos 0]

I really like to fish, but it frequently takes too many successful catches to gain a skill point, as compared to "the real vanilla experience".

I have devised a model that seems to fit the data given on El’s Anglin’ from Jan, 2008:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080105045719/http://www.elsanglin.com:80/skill_and_location.html

The fishing model

The average number of catches to gain a skill point, found on El's Anglin', fits this simple formula rather well

N=1   if S<75                  and                 N=(S-50)/25    if S>75

where S is the current fishing skill.

The probability of gaining a skill point after precisely n successful catches is

P(n)=p*(1-p)^(n-1)

where p is the probability of gaining a skill point on a specific cast.

The average number of successful catches can then be calculated to be (I can send additional information if needed)

N=1-1/ln(1-p)     if p<1

Now we can deduce a formula for the probability of gaining a skill point on a specific cast, based on the average number of successful catches, that only depend on the current fishing skill

p=1   if S<75       and                 p=1-exp(-25/(S-75))   if S>75

I do not know if this is what is used, but if it is not, then I believe this will make fishing seem more like "the real vanilla experience".

 

...You're doing a great job!

Edited September 23, 2017 by Theos
Error in formula for the probability - I'm obviously an idiot!

[Roxy 8]

Having leveled fishing in retail vanilla, and on 2 characters on Elysium servers. it is very much a real vanilla experience. maybe not 100% but as close as you can get without knowing the exact data. Now i cant say for sure that the elysium numbers are correct, but it feels very right compared to what i remember from the old days.

The issue with what you linked, is that it is from 2008. And fishing was nerfed in TBC to make up for the increased cap. 

[Theos 0]

I know it is not completely off, but I just thought it was a bit odd that I would have to catch 15 fish to gain 1 skillpoint at 139.

I know it's data from january 2008, but I can't find any reference to any "nerfing" of fishing skill gain before that month. They reduced the timer from 30s to 20s. That made it easier/faster to get catches, but the probability of getting a skillpoint was not altered.

I just did some fishing and compared it to my model and I actually can't see any difference yet... I'll do some more data collecting.

[Roxanne Flowers 15]

Whenever I have to wait at a dock for a boat to arrive or leave, that's when I pull out my fishing rod and fish.  I certainly don't "need" the vendor bait fish that I catch, but I certainly do want the skill points that accrue from doing this.

By fishing during the few minutes that would otherwise be "wasted time" just standing around doing nothing, I've been able to slowly raise my fishing skill on all of my characters.  And by doing it only while waiting for boats, I'm not stuck "grinding" fishing skill for long stretches at a time (which gets mind numbing in a hurry).  So it turns into "a little here, a little there" and it all adds up over time.

Once I get to my destination, I'll cook and vendor bait the fish I caught so they don't clog up my inventory.  Special fish, like Firefin Snappers, get mailed off to my Alchemist for conversion into reagents.

[Theos 0]

The probability of gaining fishing skill was (and is) dependant on the current fishing skill. In "the real vanilla" there was no "15 per point" and no reference anywhere to a "nerfing" of this - at least I can't find any in original patchnotes between version 1.8 and 2.4. When BC was released they did use another probabilitydistribution for the leveling from 300 to 375, and somewhere around that time they reduced the castbar timer from 30s to 20s. That made gaining fishing skill faster, but the number of average catches at a certain skill to gain a skillpoint did not change. More fish caught per second = faster gaining of skill...

Lures and other "+fishing skill" equipment only makes you able to fish as if you had a higher fishing skill. They have nothing to do with how fast fishing skills is gained.

I (also) played during vanilla - a lot - so I know it was a slow process to level fishing. That is not what this post was originally about. It was just a intended as a request for a slight modification of the probabilitydistribution, but it looks like a very similar distribution is already in use.

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Theos
Error

[Theos 0]

And I'm back...

After having made some measurements (by fishing ingame), I can conclude that it is actually HARDER than in the original vanilla experience to skill fishing. The measurements (by extrapolating) show that you will have to catch an average of 15 fish to gain a skill point around level 300. That is about 50% more than originally.

By using the cached El's Anglin' page (read first post) and by reading the original patch notes, it is very likely that the cached page reports what fishing was like during vanilla. My model is based on this. It is NOT based on my memory of how it was.

PLEASE fix how fishing is skilled - use my model. I will work! I'm not an amateur - I actually know how to model stuff.

[Theos 0]

And again...

I found a post on thottbot.com posted 2005-03-14 03:51:02:

https://web.archive.org/web/20050517200142/http://www.thottbot.com:80/?tc=Fishing

That is between patch 1.3.0 and 1.3.1 was released in the US.

The post contains an approximate number of catches needed to gain a skillpoint

Skilling:
1-150 is fairly fast, 1-2 fishes/point past 100.
150-225 - 1-4 fishes/point
225-300  4-7 fishes/point

It is pretty much what the El's Anglin' site states during TBC (see previous posts). It is now rather certain that fishing skilling was NOT nerfed when TBC was released, as I argue in my previous posts. The thottbot post apparently underestimates the number of fish needed to gain a skillpoint slightly.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Theos
Wrong patchnumbers

[Theos 0]

Hi... I'm a moron!

The model in first post assumes that the number of casts is a continuous parameter and not discrete, like it should be.

By doing some discrete math, the model should be like this:

The average number of catches to gain a skill point fits this simple formula rather well

N=1   if S<75                  and                 N=(S-50)/25    if S>75

where S is the current fishing skill.

The probability of gaining a skill point after precisely n successful catches is

P(n)=p*(1-p)^(n-1)

where p is the probability of gaining a skill point on a specific cast.

The average number of successful catches can then be calculated to be (I can send additional information if needed)

N=1/p     if p<1 (not exactly surprising)

The probability of gaining a skill point on a specific cast, based on the average number of successful catches, that only depend on the current fishing skill is

p=1   if S<75       and                 p=25/(S-50)   if S>75

The difference between the two models are in fact not great. The continuous model will give skillpoint increases somewhat faster, when the current skillpoint is low. The discrete model should be used!

 

Thanks for reading...

 

Edited September 24, 2017 by Theos
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