Anyone else think ally is pve and horde pvp?

[suhail1200 3]

Judging by racials this says ally is more pve right?Judging by pvp racials horde wins

Warrior best to be orc for the stun resist or tauren for hp and stun over human with wep skill or gnome slow remove

Warlock ofc horde undead for wotf or orc for stun resist .. well any horde then u dont face wotf

Undead mage for wotf than useless human and gnome 5% int much compared to wotf

For hunter ofc orc...somewhat dwarf and same with priest.

 

So its like the only pvp race in ally is dwarf for stoneform counter to rogue and priest is best suited for this since u get fear ward with it.I personally think undead priest isnt all that since devour plague can be removed since it is a disease by a priest...

 

So all in all human racials are crap in pvp.This probably explains the lack of pvp players on alliance on most vanilla servers?

[Patchi 4]

The racial abilities, while great, isn't really what seperates the factions into PvE or PvP specific. More the fact that Alliance has Paladins and Blessing of Salvation allowing for 30% more threat to be pushed increasing DPS overall is the reason more alliance guilds are successful in top tier raiding.

 

That's not to say that Horde isn't a great raiding faction, as Orc has the best PvE racial in the game, as well as Troll. Paladins just push Alliance over the edge. Horde would be much closer if the Windfury procs worked as intended as well.

[Ashocck 0]

Historically in retail vanilla and even after, it was widely accepted that this really was the case.

On private servers, I'm not really sure. However, there is a reason why many pvp'ers roll UD. 

[Holkan 13]

8 hours ago, suhail1200 said:

Judging by racials this says ally is more pve right?Judging by pvp racials horde wins

Warrior best to be orc for the stun resist or tauren for hp and stun over human with wep skill or gnome slow remove

Warlock ofc horde undead for wotf or orc for stun resist .. well any horde then u dont face wotf

Undead mage for wotf than useless human and gnome 5% int much compared to wotf

For hunter ofc orc...somewhat dwarf and same with priest.

 

So its like the only pvp race in ally is dwarf for stoneform counter to rogue and priest is best suited for this since u get fear ward with it.I personally think undead priest isnt all that since devour plague can be removed since it is a disease by a priest...

 

So all in all human racials are crap in pvp.This probably explains the lack of pvp players on alliance on most vanilla servers?

escape artist is by far the best racial for warriors in pvp and great for rogues as well. WoTF is pretty amazing though alliances strong point in pvp isn't their racials  its having paladins to heal.

I Think a big reason alliance gets dominated usually in pug pvp is due to this hierarchy Healing paladin > Horde racials >= ret paladin supporting > ret paladin not supporting. A shaman running around windfurying and purging randomly is a lot more effective then a ret paladin who only cleanse freedoms and bops themselves. WoTF making alliance warlocks life hard also heavily contributes.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Holkan

[UrbanNoodles 1]

Warning! Personal opinions ahead:

One can't simply say Horde or Alliance is more PvP or PvE oriented. There are a few sub divisions to consider. Such as solo PvP/PvE, group PvP/PvE, what class you are playing and its counters/usefulness in raids, shamans, and paladins.

To answer the question though: Depends.

Are you playing a class that uses charms, fears, or sleeps?

Are you a solo PvPer?

If the answer is yes, you should be Horde.

 

I am a solo PvPer. I main a Warlock and I prefer fighting Paladins than Undead Rogues/Warriors. At least it will end with the paladin getting bored and walking away instead of you just being obliterated in seconds with no way of getting away. 

 

Also, since I am a solo PvPer, I would rather fight a Paladin than a Shaman. Shamans have a knack for melting faces.

 

Though if you have a group you play with, even if it is just one other person, then it doesn't matter if you roll Alliance or Horde. Coordination beats everything.

 

Alliance is best if you do group PvP. Gnomes boost to int is fantastic. Dwarves Stoneform is amazing. Even Humans +5 to maces and swords is great for rogues and warriors, their stealth detection is really helpful also. Paladins are heavenly in groups.

Horde is best in solo PvP. Because they don't have Paladins. 

 

 

TLDR: It doesn't fucking matter.

Edited January 7, 2017 by UrbanNoodles

[kastle 4]

1 hour ago, UrbanNoodles said:

TLDR: It doesn't fucking matter.

It matters because the communities perception causes certain players to roll certain factions, thus adding to the thought that Alliance PvE, Horde PvP. If everyone believes horde is better for PvP, more PvP minded people will roll horde etc. The communities perception dictates this shit, not actual facts or numbers unfortunately

[UrbanNoodles 1]

1 hour ago, kastle said:

It matters because the communities perception causes certain players to roll certain factions, thus adding to the thought that Alliance PvE, Horde PvP. If everyone believes horde is better for PvP, more PvP minded people will roll horde etc. The communities perception dictates this shit, not actual facts or numbers unfortunately

This is a PvP server. The population is basically 50/50. This would imply the communities perception seems to feel actual facts and numbers mean more than racials. If everyone believed one side was more PvP oriented than the other due to racials, it would not be nearly as balanced as it is. Look at retail before the Every Man for Himself nerf. Servers that used to be balanced or leaning Horde, almost immediately flipped to 60%+ being alliance. Arena leaderboards were full of nothing but Humans for a long time. But that isn't the case here and this server has been up for long enough for that issue to be obvious by now if it were a thing. You will see just as many PvP dedicated Alliance as Horde on this server. The Alliance may just be better geared sooner than the Horde because of Paladins being so amazingly helpful in raids.

If you want to kill another player on this server, being either side will grant you that opportunity just as well as the other. 

And I'm sorry but he isn't asking about the communities perception. He is breaking down racials and questioning if one side is more PvP or PvE oriented than the other based on racials. My first post is for the OP to read to help add to the class racial mathematics he was doing by telling him to factor in Shamans, Paladins, and solo/group play since these things outweigh racials by a longshot. Guilds are a very big factor for PvP and both sides have amazing guilds for PvP and PvE. Join one and you will dominate with them and won't notice racials nearly as much as newbies ask about them. Even if you are a solo player you won't see racials as being a huge deal either. If you are skilled you can down anyone. If you are suffering from the Dunning–Kruger effect, which a lot of people do when it comes to video games, then that's still not the racials fault.

If you look at threads asking about racials you will notice the people asking what faction and race they should be are new to the game, or at least to vanilla. Everyone else already knows racials are not the key factor in PvP. They are just nice additions to suit your playstyle. A good player will spank you pink regardless of what race you choose. "But WotF is fantastic at breaking fears and such!!!" Yes WotF is an arguably perfect counter to Alliance Warlocks. But believe it or not, Warlocks have the means to counter WotF since it only lasts 5 seconds, and wIth a 2 minute cooldown too. It doesn't matter if you actually kill the Warlock with it because guess that lock has a Soul Stone on, as they always do. They will just instantly rez while you still have dots on you and proceed to Mortal Coil>pop a cd and instantly summon a Succubus>Seduce>kill you. That and if there is a Paladin anywhere near that Warlock... well tough luck, Horde. If you think you will see nothing but perfect scenario 1v1s in Vanilla PvP then you are mistaken. You see more 2+ group play than not. Skill and numbers out weigh racials.

 

TLDR: Racials don't matter that much in PvP, and the PvP servers population(which is directly effected by the communities perception) shows that.

Edited January 7, 2017 by UrbanNoodles

[kastle 4]

16 hours ago, suhail1200 said:

So all in all human racials are crap in pvp.This probably explains the lack of pvp players on alliance on most vanilla servers?

This has a bit to do with the communities perception. The question itself wouldn't even be posed if there wasn't some underlying belief that Horde had the edge in PvP. Looking at every TBC private server you see one of the biggest pitfalls is the lack of people playing Alliance, because once Horde got Paladins everyone went Horde for the racials. 

My point was that the type of players that play each faction are somewhat affected by peoples beliefs on what their faction excels at, which is arguably more important than racials themselves depending on what you want to do as a player. There's a reason Ally has instant queues, because more horde than Ally are queueing. Why do you think that is? 

If he just wants to know if racials make a difference, no not really. If he's asking because he wants to know which faction to roll if he's interested in premades vs pugs, getting faster queues, joining PvP guilds, or doing world PvP, then yeah it'll have some impact. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by kastle

[UrbanNoodles 1]

3 minutes ago, kastle said:

This has a bit to do with the communities perception. The question itself wouldn't even be posed if there wasn't some underlying belief that Horde had the edge in PvP. Looking at every TBC private server you see one of the biggest pitfalls is the lack of people playing Alliance, because once Horde got Paladins everyone went Horde for the racials. 

Do racials make THAT much of a difference? No of course not. My point was that the type of players that play each faction are affected by peoples beliefs that one faction has better racials, which is arguably more important than the racials themselves depending on what you want to do as a player. There's a reason Ally has instant queues, because more horde are PvPing. Why do you think that is? 

If he just wants to know if racials make a difference, no not really. If he's asking because he wants to know which faction to roll if he's interested in premades vs pugs, getting faster queues, joining PvP guilds, or doing world PvP, then yeah it'll have some impact. 

The communities perception is reflected in the server population, for the private server in question. I don't care about other servers. Nost PvP is basically even in population. From peak hours to dry times it is always ~2-5% off. If most people thought Horde had an edge when it came to PvP racials, the ratio would show a larger divide than just the 2-5% it has currently.

The community doesn't unanimously say go Horde for racials. The vast majority say go with what you like. The ones that say go Horde for racials are headbutting the same number of people that say go Alliance for Paladins. I personally say go with what you like and pick up Engineering.

I noted your point in my reply and pointed out that the people that ask about racials as a deciding factor are more likely to be new to either the game or vanilla itself. Hell I even remember a time when I asked those very questions myself a few months before TBC came out. Then I hit 60 on an Orc Warlock, after having people claim racials were a thing to take seriously and that I should avoid going up against WotF by going Horde, and after some time PvPing I came to the conclusion that I should have gone Gnome because A) racials don't mean anywhere near as much as they were hyped, and B) Gnomes have a more annoying /Train sound for me to spam when killing people. Which has led to a dusty Orc Warlock weeping in my character select screen while I have a better time on my Gnome Warlock instead. Point is: only newbies pick solely for racials. Sometimes they regret it at 60 but stick with it because it took too long to get there. Others, like me, do what Obama never could: Make change happen. The only reason people ask about racials in the first place is because of that shit storm period when Every Man for Himself allowed humans to wear a second burst trinket. Every thread about "Which racial is best so I can AFK pummel 5 people at once like in retail" has people saying Undead for WotF. People think that Vanilla WotF is like the Horde version of the broken EMfH, which it isn't. Not many classes rely on Fear as their main CC. Warriors have stuns and Priests don't PvP alone. Warlocks have 2 ways around WotF so with skill and/or certain trinkets/consumables they can get through that 5 second duration like butter. Gear and consumables easily out preform any racial on the list. Which leads me to say that I feel like people that ask about racials are just unaware that professions had a larger role in Vanilla. Racials don't have shit on crafting professions.

BG Queue time is about peak hours, days, and who you queue with if not alone. I've had many instant queues as Horde and many hour long queues as Alliance.

World PvP is the same for both sides. There are zerg town smashers, ganksquads, and solo spankstars out there on both sides at all times.

As to the last bit, you have it correct in the first sentence: racials don't that matter. Racials don't impact anything other than perfect scenario 1v1s vs the race your activatable(or RNG Orc stun resistance proc) racial counters. Perfect scenario being you are both evenly skilled and geared and are both playing like your dicks were touched by Zeus himself. As I stated in my original reply, you will not see too many 1v1s in your time PvPing outside of duels, unless you're a rogue - but that won't guarantee you a win even against a Warlock. Most pvp involves a group, whether its a premade or a WPvP ganksquad. If you join a guild you are likely up for their group activities, even if its just with one other person. Groups rely more on eachother than their individual racials. Oh that Undead popped WotF? Lock him out with a stun or focus him down if the situation calls for it.

 

TLDR: Racials don't mean much in PvP, certainly not at all if your skill level isn't up to snuff with your opponent. Premades look at classes/specs/skill level/gear, not racials. PvP guilds don't recruit because you have a certain racial. World PvP is more about gear, skill, and who has more useful consumables. BG queue times are peak based.