Speaking my mind about the Ignite by Benalius

[Nenyana 0]

35 minutes ago, killerduki said:

I've brought this issue multiple times , not just in Elysium but also back in Nostalrius too and even after merge too.

https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/22298-ignite/

Posted September 25, 2016 (edited)

2

Indeed, this is exactly the report I was referring to. 

35 minutes ago, killerduki said:

And yep , i do believe the Guilds should been warned and Items removed from "Abuse" before the ban, and they should have fix the "Bug" which was already reported giving to community patch name calling it "fixed" which in reality proved that it wasn't "Fixed".

4

This would be the expected, and more balanced way to handle it IMO. Also making clear exactly WHAT we are doing wrong, and how to avoid it without nerfing the fire spec to pieces would be helpful.

The way I see it, there is no way we could have avoided doing that high dmg at that particular Hakkar fight which aprantly is why 11 of our guildies (myself included) got banned for. We have a very active and strong mage core in our guild (Conspiracy), and we prefer to always go mage-heavy comps simply because they outpreform all the other dps. Like I said, with 10 highly competative minmaxing firemages, all trying to win the meter its impossible not to get a sick rolling ignite going for a long uptime. We are basically always 100% world buffed in raids, and with 100% consumables (minus flask, which is only mandatory in progression or at special occasions) each mages personal crit rating is between 35-45% depending on gear. 

Do you see the point I'm trying to make here? :)

[kilimaw 3]

9 hours ago, Pottu said:

When something seems to be too good to be true, it usually is the case that it isn't true. Or in this case, it's a bug and a number of guilds exploited that bug to easily kill bosses and trash in AQ40, AQ20 and ZG.

My outburst in Discord was unfortunate and I've apologized to Qgalskap. He was the latest in a long line of players who came into Discord, usually not identifying which guild/raid they were from, and then tried to turn the tables around by accusing us that it was somehow OUR fault, that WE forced YOU to exploit. This is what every exploiter always claims.

Hey remember that one time a bunch of guys running a vanilla server didn't know that stinkey que was a hugely popular addon made during actual vanilla and that blizzard said they didn't care if the players used it. Then those same guys accused a bunch of their own playerbase and bug testers of creating said addon (stoneky que) to use specifically on their server and banned them. Good times. 

Hey remember that other time when a bunch of guys running a server, without warning, permabanned a bunch of players for multi clicking songflowers, something that Nihilum (among others) routinely did for their naxx progression until the playerbase of said server finally banded together to tell them how fucking stupid they were and got the players unbanned. Good times.

Hey remember that other time a bunch of guys running a vanilla server permabanned a bunch of players for mining the well documented (from actual retail vanilla) spawn time and locations of ooze covered thorium veins (some of said players having only mined 1 or two nodes in the entire length of their gameplay) then never 'fixed' or 'changed' the 'broken' nodes. Good times.

It seems as though the trend of "hey lets overreact and ban everyone" is still alive and well. 

Same ol' shit dog. Just a different server.

 

 

9 hours ago, Slicy said:

- The "blizzlike" bug with Ignite that allows you to ramp up its dmg if you keep on critting fire spells before the 1st tick of dmg (since it refreshes the DoT duration, it can go up to insane amounts until mages stop critting kinda). Blizzard has considered this to be a bug with the mechanic itself, hence why they gave every mage their OWN ignite debuff in TBC and didn't bother fixing the original Ignite.

How ignite worked during retail vanilla was the first 5 crits calculated the amount of damage per tick and the rest of the crits just kept that dot tick up. It did not continue to increase in damage. The Patchwerk video linked earlier in this thread will show that. You'll notice that once 5 stacks are applied the tick maxes out at 3050 until the mage pulls aggro and dies. 

[kilimaw 3]

3 hours ago, myaka said:

You bring it up as evidence that huge ignite ticks were a thing back then, when it in fact wasn't.

And these guys most likely had gear that was way better than what your mages have.

They have / had access to gear that was way better than mages on this server but that doesn't mean they wore it or knew how to use it. I remember I wore as much t2 as I could until I replaced it with T3 and so did every other mage in my guild and every other mage I knew on my server. And you'll see half the crits in the Patchwerk video are from scorch or something stupid like that because they didn't know or care enough to drop the scorch ignite with a pyroblast. 

Ignites were a thing back in the day. We used to pull aggro all the time and get 1 shot by bosses. Twas fun. Idk if ignite on this server works or not but I do know that said ignites will be much higher than any evidenced on retail because of our current knowledge and that everyone and their mom uses flasks and full consumes these days. Ignites will be higher these days but not because of a bugged mechanic (and I have no idea if it's bugged or not I'm just saying).

[kilimaw 3]

Oh yeah. I think someone said something about PI or AP or any other + damage trinket suppose to blah blah blah. Idk what was said cuz I skimmed. In any case. As I said and can be seen in the patchwerk video Ignite calculates off of the first 5 crits then every other crit just keeps the tick up.

So lets say for example 5 mages with AP or PI up get 1 crit each (5 crits) the ignite ticks would be calculated from the damage each of those crits did regardless of the buffs the mages had. It goes off how much they crit for not how much they would have crit for if blah blah blah no PI AP trinket etc. Which could end up being a very big ignite. 

[killerduki 54]

1 hour ago, kilimaw said:

And you'll see half the crits in the Patchwerk video are from scorch or something stupid like that because they didn't know or care enough to drop the scorch ignite with a pyroblast.

Don't forget , "Higher Crits" doesn't "overwrite" lower "Crits" , so it's only first 5 crits , regardless .

Unless you Pom Pyro 5 Pyroblasts at start.

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Lorilay 12]

Personally, I would like to see Elysium take a more Blizzlike stance toward these types of bugs instead of throwing out the ban-hammer. If it wasn't for a wacky C'thun kill, this bug would still be around right now (as far as I can tell, it's been around since Nost). My advice would be to temp ban the people that actually "abused" it, remove items, patch the bug, and move on. If people repeat offend after a warning/temp ban, then permanently ban them.

This is not a bug that crashes the server or negatively impacts anything other than the QA team's ego. By overreacting as much as you have, you wind up spending inordinate amounts of time sifting through combat logs and chat logs going back months to find evidence of some mage saying, "haha, PI me for 200k ignites." If you would take a more moderate approach, there would be the same incentives not to exploit bugs, but the understaffed GM team could devote their efforts toward actually helping players instead of searching for people to ban.

[killerduki 54]

6 minutes ago, Lorilay said:

Personally, I would like to see Elysium take a more Blizzlike stance toward these types of bugs instead of throwing out the ban-hammer. If it wasn't for a wacky C'thun kill, this bug would still be around right now (as far as I can tell, it's been around since Nost). My advice would be to temp ban the people that actually "abused" it, remove items, patch the bug, and move on. If people repeat offend after a warning/temp ban, then permanently ban them.

This is not a bug that crashes the server or negatively impacts anything other than the QA team's ego. By overreacting as much as you have, you wind up spending inordinate amounts of time sifting through combat logs and chat logs going back months to find evidence of some mage saying, "haha, PI me for 200k ignites." If you would take a more moderate approach, there would be the same incentives not to exploit bugs, but the understaffed GM team could devote their efforts toward actually helping players instead of searching for people to ban.

Pottu didn't do wrong , they was aware of the bug seeing 200 000 and they still continued it.

This i'd say is more a problem with the Devs telling us is fixed but in reality it shown as not fixed.

Pottu originally got the trouble from devs more than the players for this.

It could have been done bit softly is my point of view, since this was mistake by the server side with their "updates" reports.

I think solution is to remove the Gear they obtained and an apologize from server over reacting while it was not only players fault but devs/update mistake either.

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Hamblin 0]

Hi,

This thread is engaging in conversation regarding bans that have an ongoing investigation. Because of this, I will temporarily be locking this until the investigation is over. Thank you!