Update the pvp gear on Zeth/Ely with BWL patch

[QQsya 4]

3h weeks of rolling over pve dragons. Oh the struggle. 

 

We can go on like this all day, you continue to deny the numbers that are right in front of your face and I continue to laugh at your butthurt and willful ignorance. 

 

>just R8 is enough to beat bwl items for pve for warriors.

Provably, demonstrably wrong, did you even read the post I directed you to? Even updated T1(coming in 1.5) is better than most of the current pre-update PvP gear.  That's a hell of a disingenuous argument anyway because PvE warriors will mostly be wearing devilsaur gloves/legs + savage glad chest/deathdealer chest and chromatic boots.  Only one of those items even comes from BWL to begin with (I'll give you a hint since you seem to have reading problems: it's chromatic boots and they are miles better for PVE than r7 boots and slightly better than r12 boots for the same*).  Two of them are even crafted BoEs that are in game from day 1! I notice you don't have a problem with that, though.

Also I assume by PvE warriors you mean fury dps, btw.  Because if you're talking about tanks then just lol @ you.

 

*You can even compare them yourself:

Updated r12 warrior boots:

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=16545

Updated r7 warrior boots:

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=22858

Current r7 warrior boots:

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=16509

Chromatic boots

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19387

 

If you have anything else objectively and verifiably wrong to say I suggest you say it elsewhere.

 

[Caber 4]

45 minutes ago, Haestingas said:

10h days of rolling over pugs and dodging strong premades. Oh the struggle. PS it doesn't take diddly squat to get pvp items that are bis, just R8 is enough to beat bwl items for pve for warriors. I'm just glad you are getting rekt by staff on here, keep on bumping your dead issue that was made clear from day 1 would never happen.

I wanna see a raider that dedicates 10 hours a day just to raiding. And 10 hours is a very very generous number, I probably would play more like 16-20 hours a day, depending on how it goes.

Given that this doesn't exist because it's not necessary, why the fuck would a pvper who does put in that amount of legwork and time not get better items?

Nobody is saying to boost it all to Naxx level, but BWL is fucking PUGGABLE EASILY. Why would gear you get from a 3 months grind with absolutely no break not be better?

 

Also what the actual fuck are you talking about, r8 gives you absolute garbage items. The only thing thats decent at best is the chest, but it's still not even close to BiS. The boots are good but not BiS either.

[QQsya 4]

Ye, when I said 10+ I meant to imply that that was the minimum.  Most rankers will end up playing significantly more than that. 

 

That is a full time job plus overtime, 7 days a week, including weekends and holidays, for about 3 or 4 months.  And you want the gear they are rewarded with for that to be replaced not even with BWL items but with updated T1.  And then you complain that no one is PVPing!  LOL!

In that case why would anyone but the most dedicated put in the time required when they could just semi-afk in MC for an hour and get better gear anyway?  At this point I'm not even talking about T2 or BWL gear yet because updated T1 gear from MC is better than most of the current PVP items.

[TTL 6]

On 5/27/2017 at 9:37 PM, QQsya said:

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=22747

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=16915

(technically an MC item but I said "T2 pieces" not "BWL items"

 

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=20194

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=16832

 

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=20068

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19398

And so on.  Lei of the Lifegiver and Don Julio's from AV are literally irreplaceable for several classes.

 

I also notice you have zero problem with "OP PvE gear in PvP".  Why aren't you complaining about 1.10 BRE in 1.3, or the fact that t2.5 + DEOI is better than r14 for a warrior?

 

 

Items like Don Julio can be replaced in BWL but you'll need to get nef head quest turn in.

Rogues Accuria + Nef Head
Warriors Quick Strike + Nef Head

Julio is an excellent ring to use till then.

[QQsya 4]

That's true, I misspoke.  I forgot about the Nef head ring simply because it isn't ingame yet on Elysium (and it isn't my main focus, as a priest I've spent longer researching healer/caster items than melee dps ones.) So on that note I was wrong. Apologies.  On the other hand, Don Julios is still very good for say, enhancement shamans, ret paladins, feral druids and the like, classes who would otherwise usually get passed over on quick strike/accuria in favor of rogues or warriors, or be forced to use their Nef head to get the healer offhand rather than the ring.

Getting back to the main topic; I, for one, will continue ranking no matter how crap the gear is simply because I enjoy PvP, it's what I play the game for.  But, obviously there are disappointingly few people who feel the same way, else we wouldn't be having the current problems with lack of PvP participation.

[Haestingas 30]

42 minutes ago, Caber said:

I wanna see a raider that dedicates 10 hours a day just to raiding. And 10 hours is a very very generous number, I probably would play more like 16-20 hours a day, depending on how it goes.

Given that this doesn't exist because it's not necessary, why the fuck would a pvper who does put in that amount of legwork and time not get better items?

Nobody is saying to boost it all to Naxx level, but BWL is fucking PUGGABLE EASILY. Why would gear you get from a 3 months grind with absolutely no break not be better?

 

Also what the actual fuck are you talking about, r8 gives you absolute garbage items. The only thing thats decent at best is the chest, but it's still not even close to BiS. The boots are good but not BiS either.

Git good son. R8 updated legs + chest beats everything but the higher rank versions from a pve perspective. I want to see a pvper that coordinates with 39 other humans for 8h a week and actually gets along with them. Considering you egotistical jackasses can barely manage brackets without pissing in each others cereal I doubt it.

I can say this stuff because I am top 50 on 10+ bosses for dps, I hold an all server record using those "trash" R8 items. So now that we have established that you are a complete idiot I consider this conversation done.

[Caber 4]

9 minutes ago, Haestingas said:

Git good son. R8 updated legs + chest beats everything but the higher rank versions from a pve perspective. I want to see a pvper that coordinates with 39 other humans for 8h a week and actually gets along with them. Considering you egotistical jackasses can barely manage brackets without pissing in each others cereal I doubt it.

I can say this stuff because I am top 50 on 10+ bosses for dps, I hold an all server record using those "trash" R8 items. So now that we have established that you are a complete idiot I consider this conversation done.

Perhaps you would be doing better than Top 50 if you weren't using arguably mediocre equipment.

[QQsya 4]

I like how you completely ignored my post, could it be because it proved wrong every single thing you said? Also lol, top 50

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Ranking.aspx?Bosses=000102030405060708090B0C0D0E0F0G0H0I&realm=Ana

Funny, I don't see you anywhere.  Also, notice how almost every single one of them is a PvE geared warrior or rogue, despite the updated PvP gear already existing on Anathema?  I do see a pair of r12 pants every now and then, that's about it. If they're willing to put in the time to rank to 12/13 then they can gladly wear them, they've earned it. Not a single r8 chest to be found, though.  Imagine that. 

[Haestingas 30]

HAHAHAHAHAH QQsya, FOOT IN MOUTH CONFIRMED. I'm #15 on that list you idiot. Caber lemme know when you post better #'s using your gear changes. Too bad I'm sure you are an irrelevant trash bag. Last I checked both #4 and #15 use R8 gear, you were really thorough in that examination QQsya. Not a single r8 chest to be found? 

Man I'm loving this, how about you guys go back to steamrolling pugs that undergear and aren't on comms and thinking you are worth a damn. Where the competition is just who puts in more time, not who actually plays at a higher level.

 

 

[QQsya 4]

Maybe if you'd post your ingame name it would help, I assumed it was the same as your forum name.  I also see you using PvE gear in every slot but those two (+ Don Julios but AV is PVE bg anyway, it hardly counts).

So, Orc fury warrior with near-full BiS except for legs and chest does passable dps, and this is supposed to prove what?  Do you think that you wouldn't be doing more dps using the ACTUAL BiS pieces in those slots?

>Last I checked both #4 and #15 use R8 gear

2/50

Wow that sure is some OP PVP gear among the sea of T2 and Lionhearts, u shur convinced me there champ.

Also looks like I was right way back on page 1.

On 5/27/2017 at 10:11 PM, QQsya said:

I have no idea who you are in game, but let me guess.  Judging by your unwarranted self importance, baseless aggression, and poor reading comprehension, you play a male Orc fury warrior, right? 

 

Btw #4 on the list has hand of rag, lol.  He'd probably still be in the top 50 if he fucking raided naked with nothing but raid buffs + weapon + windfury.

Anyway the updated gear is more or less on par with t2, so of course you'll see a few people in the top standings using it.  I never said otherwise.  Updated PVP gear is more or less on par with what's obtainable in BWL, and so people from Anathema who wear the PVP gear do comparable dps to people in BWL gear.  Is that your point? Far, far more numerous in that list are people wearing mostly T2/other PVE gear because those are much more easily attainable in terms of time spent, compared to the PVP gear.  I don't even understand what you're arguing about at this point. 

[Caber 4]

10 minutes ago, Haestingas said:

HAHAHAHAHAH QQsya, FOOT IN MOUTH CONFIRMED. I'm #15 on that list you idiot. Caber lemme know when you post better #'s using your gear changes. Too bad I'm sure you are an irrelevant trash bag. Last I checked both #4 and #15 use R8 gear, you were really thorough in that examination QQsya. Not a single r8 chest to be found? 

Man I'm loving this, how about you guys go back to steamrolling pugs that undergear and aren't on comms and thinking you are worth a damn. Where the competition is just who puts in more time, not who actually plays at a higher level.

 

 

Yeah you do seem like the kind of retard who would consider beating 12 year old dragon AI a competitive achievement

[Haestingas 30]

Man you guys are so dumb. You realize hand of rag is fairly garbage at pve right? The very fact you think it's great in PvE exposes how little you know. You play a priest so I can sorta excuse you not knowing much. Except the fact you keep on posting like you know diddly squat. Cheif uses Crul + Dooms, Rag hammer is just for pvp and org.

@Caber I'm not bragging about beating the 12 year old dragon, I'm bragging about beating 1000's of other players in dps on that dragon. It's pretty telling how little you mention of your own accomplishments, because you obviously have none to speak of.

Anywho I've had a good laugh, you guys go back to crying for the updated ranking gear and thinking you are edgy abusing the vanilla system to never challenge yourselves beyond /played.

[Caber 4]

3 minutes ago, Haestingas said:

Man you guys are so dumb. You realize hand of rag is fairly garbage at pve right? The very fact you think it's great in PvE exposes how little you know. You play a priest so I can sorta excuse you not knowing much. Except the fact you keep on posting like you know diddly squat. Cheif uses Crul + Dooms, Rag hammer is just for pvp and org.

Anywho I've had a good laugh, you guys go back to crying for the updated ranking gear and thinking you are edgy abusing the vanilla system to never challenge yourselves beyond /played.

If hand of rag is so bad at pve, why does the guy using it outperform you?
Could it be you're shit

[QQsya 4]

1 hour ago, Haestingas said:

Cheif uses Crul + Dooms

Even better.

Orc fury warrior using near-BiS axes and T2 equivalent gear does high dps, stop the fucking presses!

 

My point still stands and you are still a retard.  You've pointed me to two people out of 50 using "OP PVP gear in PVE" while conveniently neglecting to mention the other 48 who are using near full PVE gear. 

Now let's look at the pre-update PVP gear. The level 58 blues. Because that's the gear that I've been talking about the whole time, Anathema's post-update PVP gear being on par with T2 gear is working as intended.

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Ranking.aspx?Bosses=00010203040506070809&realm=ZeK

You'll find several things here:

-A lot more hunters and mages than on the Anathema list because Zeth is not yet at the patch where melee dps starts to blow everyone else out of the water;

however:

-A majority of them are still PVE geared rogues and warriors.  You'll find ONE(1) r13 hunter, at spot #31, just below a human warrior memeing it up with a 2.1 speed 2h sword.

-The top is a rogue in devilsaur with a lifetime max rank of 4. 

-Almost zero PVE blues (I won't say zero this time because I didn't look through every single one). Even if there are a few, it doesn't change my point because the pre-update pvp gear is roughly on par with pre-update t1 and Zeth is currently on patch 1.3. My original suggestion was to update the gear with patch 1.6, later modified to 1.7 in order to not have ex-rankers have an unfair advantage in initial BWL progression.

-Caber not ranked at all, because he tanks in PVE and he doesn't do it in r13 gear because he's not a retard.

 

Also, if the r8 chest/legs beat everything then why are you not rank 1 instead of rank 15?  Could it be because they're ON PAR with BWL gear, which is what most of your neighbors in that list are wearing?  In other words, you yourself are wearing the updated pvp gear and doing dps that is more-or-less equivalent to the dps done by people wearing BWL gear.  So thank you very much, that is my entire point. I still don't understand what you're arguing against, considering that you yourself prove my initial point through the mere act of existing.

 

Quote

@Caber I'm not bragging about beating the 12 year old dragon, I'm bragging about beating 1000's of other players in dps on that dragon. It's pretty telling how little you mention of your own accomplishments, because you obviously have none to speak of.

Uh, server first r14 on Zeth?  Oh wait you're right, that's nothing, being an orc/human warrior and pressing buttons in the right order while not standing in fire is soooo much harder. 

[Caber 4]

1 hour ago, Haestingas said:

@Caber I'm not bragging about beating the 12 year old dragon, I'm bragging about beating 1000's of other players in dps on that dragon. It's pretty telling how little you mention of your own accomplishments, because you obviously have none to speak of.

You're beating a select few people in performance. I assume not many of the 1000's of other players are similiarly geared, so they're not in your weight class to begin with.
WIthin your weight class, you're probably like number 15 out of 20.

Which, if you really think about it, is bottom of the barrel performance. You didnt click those buttons hard enough and the 12 year old dragon didn't die quick enough. Too bad! I hope you can soon find another achievement to try and impress people with. Surely someone will care if you're number 14 out of 20? Or perhaps you have to branch out, and become the absolutely competitively acting pachinko machine player.

[QQsya 4]

世界一朝鮮玉入れ選手を目指せ！ ＦＡＩＴＯ！　ＦＡＩＴＯ！

Maybe one day robot pixel dragons will give HKs, then you can finally rank past r8!  But you should make your own thread for that suggestion!

[Haestingas 30]

Oh nice pvp update today, I see they completely ignored your oh so fantastic suggestion. Sorry guys better luck next time. Anywho it's been fun but there's only so much enjoyment to be had with endlessly shooting down your poor arguments. I've said my piece and made you look like complete fools enough times to prove my point.

[QQsya 4]

You've said you're leaving this thread like three times already.  Yet you're still here.  Go on, leave already.

>endlessly shooting down your poor arguments

You are actually delusional and likely dangerously insane if you think that's what happened here. My main argument = updated PVP gear is at par with BWL gear so it should update around the BWL patch. It was already proven theoretically on the previous page, you yourself prove it experimentally by doing comparable dps to BWL geared people while wearing updated PVP gear.

You can't argue against the actual numbers so you resort to infantile shitposting.  Sad!

[Fiers 0]

4 hours ago, Haestingas said:

Git good son. R8 updated legs + chest beats everything but the higher rank versions from a pve perspective. I want to see a pvper that coordinates with 39 other humans for 8h a week and actually gets along with them.

Does this guy even play the game? PvE is orders of magnitude easier than PvP. And that's regardless of whether you mean skilled fighting or premade grinding.

Our guild is the top one on the server, and on ZK, I would've spent more significantly more time in WSG in a single week of my grind to R13 than I have in all the time I've spent raiding combined, including world bosses. That one week of PvP would still likely be more than 2x the amount of time I've spent raiding in 5 months.

To argue that PvE is the harder of the two is shockingly, hilariously wrong. It'd take 4+ years of raiding to compete with a 3 month PvP grind's time investment, and the PvP grind is a competition, whereas PvE is basically impossible to fail at in the end, just maybe get slowed down a bit, unless you're not complete garbage. And if you are, you'll still get rewarded for your efforts in PvE.

[Haestingas 30]

So spending time = hard? I find that cute.Lemme know when you guys guys actually fight the other top premades full stop and don't just farm honor and I"ll care.

 

And the best clear of all time of MC on ZK is 82mins...... what a joke server.

[Fiers 0]

We haven't even tried for speed clears. ZK's minimal playerbase doesn't support the same activity as larger or established ones - we've been bleeding out for 4+ months. It's simply not our guild's top goal to clear as fast as humanly possible. That's a silly little game that private server players have made up for themselves to keep boring content slightly more interesting, but there's nothing about it that makes faster clears innately laudable or worthy of a goal. If you find joy in it, as do many others, good on you. But you see 82 minutes as a failure, and I see it as "why are you even looking at clear times, who cares?" If not for guild recruitment, I doubt I'd know what our realmplayer clear times were.

But you're supporting my point. The top clear on Elysium is what, 35 minutes or so? Contrast that with 100+ hours a week of the grind, sustained, where even a single day off might mean you gain no progress or even downrank, while you're in perpetual competition with people on both factions, and it's impossible to follow your argument for why it shouldn't be properly rewarded.

Quote

So spending time = hard?

This is a Vanilla server, so...I guess yes? None of the content is difficult by itself. You get the reward for killing the bosses, which is laughably easy. Not doing it in 1 shot, or fast, or better than others - just killing the boss. And on ZK/Elysium - you know, the servers we're talking about here - there won't be any content for at least a year that isn't entirely trivial. With the content that comes afterwards only perhaps a tiny bit less so. The amount of time it takes to reach the reward is pretty much the only metric worth any salt on a vanilla private server.

If you want to talk about actual difficulty, PvE is a 0 on a scale from 1-10, so PvP easily wins on that front as well. Either way, your argument can't hold water.

[doodoobrown 1]

22 hours ago, Haestingas said:

Git good son. R8 updated legs + chest beats everything but the higher rank versions from a pve perspective.

R8 Chest: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=22872

R8: Leggings http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=22873

Total: 40 Stamina 106 AP 3% crit

 

R12 Leggings: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=16479

R13 Chest:http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=16477

Total: 81 Stamina 72 AP 3.70% crit 1% hit

 

Deathdealer Brestplate: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=11926

Outrider's Plate: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=22651

Total: 35 Stamina 62 AP 3% crit 1% hit

 

Outrider's Plate is set to be added during 1.6 on the timeline, so if you have an issue with PvP gear being better than PvE gear, then look no further than Blizzard for poorly itemizing fury warrior gear during this patch. Also, it's odd how you complain about a few pieces of level 60 gear that takes no less than a month to gain on their own, but have no grievances with using a piece of level 44 mail in endgame content. If edgemaster's was not essential would you honestly tell me you would break the devilsaur set bonus for r8?

Even with the gear available without rank you only lose .7% crit and 10 AP by using it over the updated r13 set and trade 44 AP for 1% hit when compared to the r8 set. You're whining over the smallest differences and refuse to show your work as to why rank gear is significantly better than gear normally obtainable in 1.6. If you got farmed by premades up until R8 this is not the thread to cry about it in.

[Hudson 16]

Outriders Plate was added in 1.11, FYI.

[doodoobrown 1]

3 hours ago, Hudson said:

Outriders Plate was added in 1.11, FYI.

Yep, you're right. I'll edit that out then.

[TTL 6]

On 5/22/2017 at 8:26 PM, QQsya said:

In actual retail they weren't updated until Naxx.  But they kind of suck, most of them are barely on par with MC gear and will only get worse as time goes on until there's no point in ranking anymore unless you push all the way to the top.  On old Nost,  many "non-rankers" would queue just for a few weeks just to get 2 or 4 pieces of the set for the set bonuses and because of that Nost always had a very active PVP community. 

The updated blues also already exist on Anathema.

This is probably the one non-blizzlike change that Nost made to pvp that actually worked out for the better.

The only people who are ranking to that extreme are premades which are probably the minority anyways. Many of those who PvP do it for fun, not simply gear so I think the gear being low tier is a good thing especially for PvE.