Farewell

[JCarrill0 17]

3 hours ago, gamemechanic said:

People who read this could easily think this is an objective observation. But they can't see that you are tagging Theloras on the paladin discord everytime you are white knight'ing him.

Stick to discussing facts instead. You where clearly derailing this discussion.

I'll share my thoughts now: They probably thought they where right, they keept digging for evidence and got stuck in a discussion they couldn't win. But being to stubborn about it too admit it. That's why KD left and Theloras called me a liar without anything to support it. Anyone can join the open dev discord and look at the discussion. Its quite clear that no evidence from late vanilla could be supplied.

When was I"white knighting" @Theloras?

yeah I am in the paladin discord, so show me proof (evidence) that I was "white Knighting" him.

i think these are more assumptions and opinions on our part. Much how toon claim I'm all about derailing the conversation. This thread is about @killerduki giving farewell.

i had asked a legit question, which you didn't finnaly answer. You claim they thought they were right (which they are) then claim to hey can't back up evidence, which is the very thing I asked you... what are hey doing if not providing documented evidences? You dismissed them and that's fine. It's an opinion to dismiss it, not actual fact that they didn't provide evidence, much like how @Theloras is telling you that it ha s been proven that they once stacked and you can not provide ANY evidence (documented proof) that it was ever actually removed.

You may not like that fact, and I may not even like the fact Paladins like to STACK judgements... but facts are facts... they did do it, nor was it ever removed.

certain projects (Crestfall) removed this ability cuz they feel it should not of been something Paladins can do. That's fine, but here on Elysium, many of us loved the fact it's going for "blizzlike".

some of us also have quit since they get it's turning away from that.

I rested my case from my discussion earlier. I've since moved on this whole idea that you fee I'm "white-Knighting theloras on paladin discord. I await your facts and document proof, unless of course this is what I said it was.... an assumption.

Edit: for the record, me and @Theloras disagree on a few things about Paladins, and I have more disagreements about how duki plays his paladin.

we just all come to the same conclusion that we all love our paladin class and want to show that healing isn't the ONLY thing we are capable of.

we agree to disagree and come together about our class, but all 3 of us play VERY differently. That's why I find it odd when you claim I'm "white knight" theloras. Lol

[Uevenlift 0]

OP got rekt

[Ram 11]

Plus a blog which also shows it worked and it came back.

[gamemechanic 0]

2 minutes ago, Ram said:

Plus a blog which also shows it worked and it came back.

Link it. That makes it way easier to discuss.

[Ram 11]

It has been linked several times by Theo, even in this thread. Please search for it.

[Ram 11]

And you quoted it already. Maybe reading it would help.

[gamemechanic 0]

3 minutes ago, Ram said:

And you quoted it already. Maybe reading it would help.

Then you already know it didn't came back.

[Dralek 5]

9 minutes ago, Ram said:

Plus a blog which also shows it worked and it came back.

It doesn't really prove it by itself, because it does not provide factual evidence that it did (no screenshot, video, patch note, official forum posting, etc).

What it does, when combined with other sources of similar weak statements, is verify that on the very least it was a popular assumption at the time. It may very well be a mechanic at the time, but the sources drawn for this conclusion lack substantiability in order to keep judgement effect stacking implemented.

[Theloras 108]

20 minutes ago, Dralek said:

It doesn't really prove it by itself, because it does not provide factual evidence that it did (no screenshot, video, patch note, official forum posting, etc).

the original post of the paladin blog was actually on the official wow forums:

 

[gamemechanic 0]

53 minutes ago, Theloras said:

the original post of the paladin blog was actually on the official wow forums:

 

That blogpost isn't even about multiple debuffs.

"Basically you've got so many procs going off, with each one having a chance to trigger Judgement of Wisdom, that on average you'll see 2 JoW procs per swing (that's +118 mana per swing). It's sick. When you see JoW proc 4 times off a single hit (not uncommon), you'll laugh at how rediculous this is."

JoW got triggered from weapon hit + procs (seals etc.):

https://www.mmorpgitalia.it/threads/paladin-mana-regeneration-trick-exploit.63598/

http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=243&mid=11287757594799940

(There's also a weird effect where Seal of Fury pushes the proc rate of Judgement of Wisdom way up. It seems like you get two or three times as many procs from JoW if you have SoF running, and sometimes you'll see two or three procs for a single swing. This does not work for Judgement of Light however. )

But lets for the sake of the argument assume you are right! The four comments in the blogpost all indicates that this is a bug. The title of the thread on the official wow forums indicate that this an exploit. So if you where right, you have now stated that there is reasonable doubt that the mechanic in question was working as intended.

[Theloras 108]

52 minutes ago, gamemechanic said:

That blogpost isn't even about multiple debuffs.

"Basically you've got so many procs going off, with each one having a chance to trigger Judgement of Wisdom, that on average you'll see 2 JoW procs per swing (that's +118 mana per swing). It's sick. When you see JoW proc 4 times off a single hit (not uncommon), you'll laugh at how rediculous this is."

JoW got triggered from weapon hit + procs (seals etc.):

https://www.mmorpgitalia.it/threads/paladin-mana-regeneration-trick-exploit.63598/

http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=243&mid=11287757594799940

(There's also a weird effect where Seal of Fury pushes the proc rate of Judgement of Wisdom way up. It seems like you get two or three times as many procs from JoW if you have SoF running, and sometimes you'll see two or three procs for a single swing. This does not work for Judgement of Light however. )

But lets for the sake of the argument assume you are right! The four comments in the blogpost all indicates that this is a bug. The title of the thread on the official wow forums indicate that this an exploit. So if you where right, you have now stated that there is reasonable doubt that the mechanic in question was working as intended.

dude, Seal of Fury was removed in 1.9...

Seal of Fury - The seal and judgement have been removed and replaced with a new self-buff, Righteous Fury, which will increase threat from holy damage.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.9.0

but nice try

[gamemechanic 0]

9 minutes ago, Theloras said:

dude, Seal of Fury was removed in 1.9...

Seal of Fury - The seal and judgement have been removed and replaced with a new self-buff, Righteous Fury, which will increase threat from holy damage.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.9.0

I know. But that blogpost is before 1.9.

11 December, 2005 Super-mana regen is back!

3 January 2006 World of Warcraft Client Patch 1.9.0

Quote

but nice try

indeed.

[Haestingas 30]

Theloras you are getting torn up.

[Theloras 108]

43 minutes ago, Haestingas said:

Theloras you are getting torn up.

still waiting for someone to provide actual evidence that the mechanic was indeed removed...

and not just conjecture, personal bias or theory either

and certainly not lol logic or common sense, cuz lord knows that has no place in discussions such as this or Holy Resistance!

[Theloras 108]

5 hours ago, gamemechanic said:

I know. But that blogpost is before 1.9.

11 December, 2005 Super-mana regen is back!

3 January 2006 World of Warcraft Client Patch 1.9.0

indeed.

according to your theory then for something of this magnitude being removed, why didn't blizzard specify it in the 1.9 patch notes if they had put every other change in - as they did in the patch 2.4 notes?

it was the original vanilla Paladin revamp after all...

 

[Haestingas 30]

Lol I think its more YOU need to provide evidence it actually existed in the first place in vanilla. So far you have zero, which is why Elysium got rid of it.

[Theloras 108]

Just now, Haestingas said:

Lol I think its more YOU need to provide evidence it actually existed in the first place in vanilla. So far you have zero, which is why Elysium got rid of it.

wow are you fucking dense? like full on mentally retarded?

[Theloras 108]

As I said above, given the fact that 1.9 was the Paladin class revamp patch, for Blizzard to remove such a mechanic as multiple ranks of the same judgement and NOT put it in the patch notes defies your lol logic argument.

Paladins

Due to significant talent changes, all Paladins' talent points will be refunded and can be respent. Training costs for all talent spell/ability replacements have been significantly reduced.

Paladins can now learn Greater Blessings for the following spells:

Blessing of Might

Blessing of Wisdom

Blessing of Kings

Blessing of Sanctuary

Blessing of Salvation

Greater Blessings will cast the associated blessing on all raid members that share the same class as the target. For example, if you cast Greater Blessing of Might on a warrior in your raid, all warriors in the raid party will receive Blessing of Might from you. Additionally, Greater Blessings have an increased duration of 15 minutes. These blessings require twice as much mana as the single target version, as well as a reagent. Paladins can purchase these new Greater Blessing spells from their class trainers.

Seals and Judgements - Added or increased damage per level so that these spells keep pace between replacements.

Judgements - Judgements that place a debuff on their victim will now all have their duration refreshed when the judging paladin strikes the victim with his or her melee swings. All these debuffs have had their duration decreased to 10 seconds. In addition, Judgements that place debuffs can no longer be resisted.

Seal of Righteousness - Now does holy damage on every swing. It can now proc correctly as well. The Judgement effect has been renamed "Judgement of Righteousness" to differentiate it from the Seal damage in the combat log.

Judgement of the Crusader - The holy damage bonus has been decreased as part of rebalancing paladin damage (which is still increased overall).

Seal of Command - The proc will occur more often, but will only do 70% of weapon-swing damage.

Judgement of Command - Instead of placing a debuff on the victim, this spell now does immediate damage. If the victim is not stunned, they only take 50% of the total damage. The damage on this Judgement was increased significantly.

Judgement of Wisdom - Arcane Shot will no longer cause this to proc twice on one shot. Channeling spells can now trigger this proc as well.

Vengeance - Special ability critical hits can now trigger Vengeance.

Judgement of Righteousness - The damage of this judgement was increased significantly. This judgement can now trigger procs. The bonus from spell damage items has been increased slightly.

Holy Shock - Now heals friendly targets and damages enemy targets. Mana cost reduced. Bonus from spell damage and healing items increased.

All Seals and Judgements have had their bonus coefficient from plus spell damage re-evaluated. Some holy damage effects had no coefficient before and now have a coefficient.

Vengeance - Clarified the tooltip to indicate procs will not trigger Vengeance.

Summon Warhorse - Mana cost reduced.

Summon Charger - Mana cost reduced.

Consecration - No longer displays a debuff icon on targets in the area of effect.

Updated Aura tooltips to be more clear (include radius, fix grammatical errors etc...).

Judgement - Range increased, cooldown decreased, mana cost decreased. Using Judgement will now initiate melee combat.

Exorcism - Now usable on Demon targets in addition to Undead targets.

Holy Wrath - Now usable on Demon targets in addition to Undead targets.

Seal of Justice - Mana cost slightly increased. The stun effect's duration no longer diminishes or is diminished by controlled stun abilities and spells (e.g. Cheap Shot, Hammer of Justice, Charge etc...).

Seal of Righteousness - The damage bonus from +Holy damage has been reevaluated on this seal. Since the damage is delivered on every swing, the bonus has been reduced. However, paladins attacking with faster weapons should see an overall increase in the bonus from + spell damage gear. Mana Cost slightly increased.

Seal of Command - Damage bonus from +Holy damage items slightly increased.

Seal of the Crusader - Mana cost slightly increased.

Seal of Fury - The seal and judgement have been removed and replaced with a new self-buff, Righteous Fury, which will increase threat from holy damage.

Seal of Light - Mana cost slightly increased.

Seal of Wisdom - Mana cost slightly increased.

Seal of Command - Mana cost slightly increased.

Hammer of Wrath - Missile speed of the flying hammer increased.

Divine Protection, Divine Shield and Blessing of Protection - Targets of these spells will now receive the "Forbearance" effect, preventing another of these three spells from being applied to that target for one minute.

New Spell: Righteous Fury (level 16) - Increases the threat generated by the Paladin's Holy attacks by 60%. Lasts 30 minutes.

Blessing of Sanctuary - Now causes Holy damage to the attacker when the blessed target blocks an attack in addition to the current effect.

Hammer of Justice - Is now a Protection spell.

Repentance - Is now considered an Incapacitate effect.

Blessing of Wisdom - Mana regeneration over time will no longer generate threat.

Purify - Mana cost now based on a percentage of base mana.

Cleanse - Mana cost now based on a percentage of base mana.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.9.0

[Ram 11]

Theo, you cannot win this war with reason. They need to provide evidence that it did not exist, but instead of doing their job, they focus on something completely else, on detaching the evidence that judgemend stacking existed. They hold high their argument from the one post which claims judgement stacking was removed with 1.8, but call every other argument weak. They also rely on a textual (no Video, no Screenshot) source but criticize the fact that your sources are only textual (no vid, no ss), while especially this paladin blog you found is an excellent source of quality which becomes even clearer when you read more of it, because it always covers actual issues on a higher than average level oft knowledge (compared to vanilla times). Actually everyone who is against keeping seals and argues like that should go back to the jungle and stay with his/her parents who sit on a tree and delouse each other.

[Ram 11]

And when that all should fail, they will rely on the mysterious, unseen, unreported stealth nerf just to beat you and duki.

This server has got the same thick and toxic people feenix had. If you tell them the sky is blue and they do not like you, they will unite and all say the sky is green, just to mock you and be right.

[gamemechanic 0]

3 hours ago, Theloras said:

according to your theory then for something of this magnitude being removed, why didn't blizzard specify it in the 1.9 patch notes if they had put every other change in - as they did in the patch 2.4 notes?

it was the original vanilla Paladin revamp after all...

Quote

dude, Seal of Fury was removed in 1.9...

 

[lupehh 1]

Farewell killerduki, you are a insperation to many, only few know All the work u and theoloras did for making sure paladins ar fixed the way they used to be in retail vanilla.

I also want to thank u for teaching me about the spell damage paladin, the guild Will not be the Same with u but is officers have decided to Carry on your vision.

 

Thanks and farewell from a friend.

 

And thanks theoloras for letting is know about the situation.

[Kms12 0]

ayyy paladins

[Hudson 16]

The QA/dev team already made a decision based on the evidence being endlessly repeated in this thread. If you have something novel to bring to the discussion, the place for that would be on GitHub instead of derailing threads unrelated to judgements stacking.