Ironfoe Testing

[Omgdontdie 1]

Anyone who knows me in game knows that Ironfoe is my baby. You would also know that I have garbage luck when it comes to getting new weapons. Because of this, I was pretty much looking for any reason to justify using the hammer over any other weapon, so I did some digging and testing. This is what I found...

- The Elysium database (SQL file available on github) has Ironfoe's ppm at 1.5, ie 6% proc chance.

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(11684,2,4,'Ironfoe',23618,4,0,1,315430,63086,21,-1,-1,60,55,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,73,136,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2400,0,0,15494,2,0,1.5,-1,...

15494 is the spell id, 1.5 is the ppm, -1 shows no cool down. I tested this extensively with a sample size of 2000+ auto attacks (hits/crits/blocks only), no HOJ, hit capped, no dual wield, white hits only, and got a proc chance of 5.4% with a 95% confidence interval of about 1. A 6% proc rate seems realistic. 

 

- Extra attack procs cannot proc extra attack procs.

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// not allow proc extra attack spell at extra attack if (m_extraAttacks && IsSpellHaveEffect(triggerEntry, SPELL_EFFECT_ADD_EXTRA_ATTACKS) && triggerEntry->Id != 20178) return SPELL_AURA_PROC_FAILED;

Other similar code snippets appear all over the place. During all of my testing I never saw a "chain-proc." Its probably safe to assume that proc like HOJ and Thrash Blade also fit under this category. Most people already know this.

 

- Sunder Armor does not proc Ironfoe (havent tested with other chance-on-hit items)

After running ZG today, I noticed my Ironfoe procs were very low considering I was getting over 5% proc rates during tests the same day. I tested Ironfoe using only sunder armor (pooled rage, and canceled auto attacks before and after casting sunders). While using only sunder (no white hits went through), I got zero procs after about 200 sunders. Bad luck can be eliminated as a factor with this sample size and explains the weapon's poor performance in ZG. This is a huge detriment for tanks using Ironfoe for TPS since it is your most used ability. Since sunder armor requires a weapon, this is likely due to the fact that it deals no damage and is probably a bug.

 

 

-Bloodthirst does not proc Ironfoe (havent tested with other chance-on-hit items)

Same as Sunder Armor, but I only gathered a sample size of about 70. Extremely small chance that this was just bad luck assuming even a 5% proc rate, but this actually makes sense since Bloodthrist doesn't require a weapon to cast.

 

- Hamstring procs Ironfoe confirmed.

- Whirlwind procs Ironfoe confirmed.

- HS, Cleave, Execute, and Overpower probably proc Ironfoe based on intuition and experience, but yet to be tested.

 

Conclusion: Nothing too new in the grand scheme of things. The proc rate is probably higher than we expected, but also doesn't proc off of all of our yellow hits. As fury, Ironfoe is still pretty good but are probably outclassed by BWL weapons (until maybe Anubisath Warhammer for humans/dwarves). As a tank, Sunder Armor not procing Ironfoe discounts its value, and is probably a bug (need proof on whether sunder procs chance-on-hit in retail).

[Storfan 24]

I believe it's the same as with TF which also doesnt proc from Sunder (I've been told). Please make a bugreport with this information on github.

When I tested the proc-rate myself after the nerf I got a sub-5% proc-rate probably because Sunders ate up a large portion of the hits.

[Omgdontdie 1]

Thanks to a guildie who helped me with some of the digging, we think the requirements for Ironfoe proccing off spells are the following:

-The attack has to be in the physical spell school

-The damagetype must be melee

-The attack must be a hit or crit

-Damage must be greater than zero

Sunder doesn't fit the last category. Bloodthrist could have just been a small sample size (or damagetype could be different, havent looked). The problem is that I have no proof on whether or not Sunder Armor is supposed to be proccing chance on hit anyway. I just thought it was odd. If anyone has posts from 2007 or screenshots of SA proccing chance on hit, id love to make a bug report.

[Zarant 2]

In order to trigger any kind of main hand procs, the spell itself must require a melee weapon and it must do some kind of damage. Which excludes spells like sunder armor, bloodthirst, pummel, shield slam and thunder clap.

There are exception to this rule, like seal of righteousness for example, but as far as warriors are concerned, the only spells that doesn't follow those simple rules are execute and shield bash. Shield bash is manually coded as an exception to this rule and can trigger main hand procs. For some reason shield slam doesn't behave like shield bash, despite having evidence from the 2.0 patch notes indicating that both shield slam and shield bash should both trigger main hand procs.

Execute is split into two spells, the first spell does 0 damage, it only checks if you can actually cast execute, it checks if you have the minimum amount of rage and a melee weapon, and if those conditions are met, it triggers a second spell. The second execute spell behaves like bloodthirst, the spell itself doesn't require a melee weapon and therefore, can't trigger any main hand weapon effects. However, the second execute spell can only be cast through the first execute spell. So execute is a 2 pronged spell, one that does no damage and require a melee weapon, and a second spell that does damage but doesn't require a melee weapon.

I made bug reports about that in the past but for some unknown reason they were dismissed without any kind of explanation.

[Omgdontdie 1]

When you say

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In order to trigger any kind of main hand procs, the spell itself must require a melee weapon and it must do some kind of damage. Which excludes spells like sunder armor, bloodthirst, pummel, shield slam and thunder clap.

is this how the spells behave in the code? Or how they are supposed to work? I get a strong intuitive feeling that SA and BT should generate procs, but I haven't found definitive evidence on this. If abilities like shield bash/shield slam are supposed to generate procs, it feels wrong to not have SA and BT generate procs.

About shield slam, a past patch note says it should proc main hand weapon attacks, but I haven't tested this nor have I looked at the code https://elysium-project.org/updates/2016-12-15

I also think I have seen Ironfoe proc off pummel, but my memory may be deceiving me. I will test this now. 

[Omgdontdie 1]

Did some digging, and found evidence that supports Bloodthirst generating procs. If you look closely at approx 1:42, you see two windfury procs occurring back to back - too close together for it to be from a single main hand swing. The only reasonable conclusion is that Bloodthirst (which was cast the exact moment the windfury procced) generated the proc. I don't play horde, but if I recall correctly, windfury is essentially the same as a main hand chance-on-hit enchant. Note that because this is in Naxx, and by this point extra attack chain procs were fixed, this is also not possible.

 

[Omgdontdie 1]

I've tested with pummel enough times to feel confident that it does not proc Ironfoe - nothing unexpected.

[Omgdontdie 1]

Did some testing with Execute, and even though the code says it is fixed it still isnt proccing. They might have the wrong spell ID. Tested shield bash and it procs main hand weapon, so the fix should work as long as the spell ID is correct. The same fix should work for BT and SA, ill look into it.

[Omgdontdie 1]

Shield Bash is proccing main hand. Shield Slam is not.

[Storfan 24]

1 hour ago, Omgdontdie said:

Did some testing with Execute, and even though the code says it is fixed it still isnt proccing. They might have the wrong spell ID. Tested shield bash and it procs main hand weapon, so the fix should work as long as the spell ID is correct. The same fix should work for BT and SA, ill look into it.

 

1 hour ago, Omgdontdie said:

Shield Bash is proccing main hand. Shield Slam is not.

You're doing gods work <3

[Omgdontdie 1]

Bought a 2.8 speed 1h and got fiery to make sure my sample size will never be too small. Currently Bloodthirst, Shield Slam, and Execute are confirmed bugs (evidence found) and Sunder Armor clearly doesnt proc but I havent found proof yet.

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/issues/1011

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/issues/1012

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/issues/1021

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/issues/1023

[Omgdontdie 1]

Side note... Shield Bash fix and Shield Slam + Execute fix were two separate fixes. Is it possible that the second one never got pushed out to live?

[Omgdontdie 1]

Wow... AQ team denied the change... No wonder it isnt working even though the patch notes said Shield Slam should be working correctly.

[Omgdontdie 1]

All four bug tracker posts now supply indisputable evidence that their respective spells (Sunder Armor, Bloodthirst, Execute, Shield Slam) trigger main hand procs. Simple code solutions which are extremely easy to implement have been proposed. Rest is up to the devs. Omg out.

[Storfan 24]

8 minutes ago, Omgdontdie said:

All four bug tracker posts now supply indisputable evidence that their respective spells (Sunder Armor, Bloodthirst, Execute, Shield Slam) trigger main hand procs. Simple code solutions which are extremely easy to implement have been proposed. Rest is up to the devs. Omg out.

Good job man!

[Storfan 24]

29 minutes ago, Omgdontdie said:

QA denied the changed even though these mechanics were clearly in place in vanilla. This server is a lost cause.

Please link.

[Omgdontdie 1]

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/pull/1029

Pretty much confirmed sunder procs mainhand on retail, sunder has always triggered procs on retail, but they think it is a bug so they won't fix it.

[Omgdontdie 1]

They keep saying "patch notes were clear about it" but I can't find any patch notes aside from changes to shield bash and shield slam, and even those aren't consistent. Am I missing something?

[Ram 11]

1 hour ago, Omgdontdie said:

QA denied the changed even though these mechanics were clearly in place in vanilla. This server is a lost cause.

same as with paladin judgement stacking.

[Zarant 2]

Don't be so naive, of course they know it's blizzlike, if you look at one of their previous patch notes (https://elysium-project.org/updates/2016-12-15),they clearly knew the way it worked on retail and even acknowledged that at some point implementing a half assed "fix" to shield bash. This is clearly an arbitrary design choice, they are just saying that this is a bug just to avoid any conversation about this topic, and that's why the elysium team flip flop so much on this kind of subject, see the whole thunderfury debate that happened a few months ago.

This probably have something to do with content tuning I assume, buffing classes, specially prot warriors will just make content easier. And from their previous actions, that is kind of consistent, when they inherited the nost core they made some effort to make Ironfoe not as good as other raid weapons. By indirectly increasing its proc rate, ironfoe might be viable once again, specially for tanking.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Omgdontdie said:

They keep saying "patch notes were clear about it" but I can't find any patch notes aside from changes to shield bash and shield slam, and even those aren't consistent. Am I missing something?

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QA is not denying it happened in vanilla, but rather recognizes it as a bug that was on the to-squash list.

Blizzard's own patch notes were clear on that.

Emphasis mine.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/2-0-1

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Warrior "Shield Slam" and "Shield Bash" will no longer trigger a proc from an equipped weapon.

No skin in the game here, but this appears to be one of those things that Blizzard intended to fix but waited until the TBC pre-patch to apply. Giving context where it appeared to be missing here.

[Theloras 108]

I could say something here but I think my mere presence in this thread says enough...

[Guest]

The irony is not lost on me*, though to further keep us from derailing the thread I'll leave the discussion of nuance and context aside since that failed in the past.

[femdead 0]

What a joke

 

[Zarant 2]

Have you ever asked yourself why is that a bug in the first place? Because it does feel like a bug, imagine if you get disarmed, cast a shield slam and get a crusader proc, that doesn't feel right. You could argue the same about bloodthirst, ok, I can go with that. But then you have sunder armor and execute which are both proper main hand attacks but doesn't trigger any main hand proc because of a made up rule, that is, the main hand attack must do damage, which is not blizzlike at all and there is nothing explicitly indicating that sunder armor isn't supposed to behave that way, and which is even more weird is that execute falls into this same category.

There are so many things inconsistent here and even with proper evidence, the response to this whole thing is just: Not a bug, nothing to do here.