Random Paladin Discussion (only regarding Paladin issues and stuffs related to Paladins)

[killerduki 54]

TL:DR

 

Here is the Gear analyze what i used , in few points you were correct but in few points there is some theory you might misunderstood :

 

This is the Gear you see on my screenshot (it is not Icebane gloves "didn't got them yet )

 

Helm of Domination
Binds when picked up

Head Plate

661 Armor
+28 Stamina
+21 Strength
+11 Agility
Durability 100 / 100
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increases your chance to parry an attack by 1%.
Equip: Increased Defense +7.

 

 

Master Dragonslayer's Medallion
Binds when picked up
Unique

Neck  

+14 Agility
+24 Stamina
Requires Level 60

Equip: Increased Defense +7.

 

Pauldrons of the Unrelenting
Binds when picked up Shoulder Plate 650 Armor
+30 Stamina
+11 Strength
Durability 100 / 100
Requires Level 60

Equip: Increased Defense +9.
Equip: Increases your chance to dodge an attack by 1%.

 

Cryptfiend Silk Cloak
Binds when picked up

Back Cloth

203 Armor
+14 Stamina
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increased Defense +7.
Equip: Increases your chance to dodge an attack by 1%.
Equip: Improves your chance to hit by 1%.

 

Icebane Breastplate
Binds when equipped

Chest Plate

899 Armor
+24 Stamina
+12 Strength
+42 Frost Resistance
Durability 165 / 165
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increased Defense +8.

 

Icebane Bracers
Binds when equipped

Wrist Plate

393 Armor
+13 Stamina
+6 Strength
+24 Frost Resistance
Durability 55 / 55
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increased Defense +5.

 

Deathbone Gauntlets
Binds when picked up

Hands Plate

398 Armor
+14 Stamina
Durability 45 / 45
Requires Level 56
Equip: Increased Defense +10.
Equip: Restores 4 mana per 5 sec.

 

Royal Qiraji Belt
Item Level 81
Binds when picked up Waist Plate
512 Armor
+22 Stamina
+13 Strength
+13 Agility
Durability 55 / 55
Requires Level 60
Sell price: 3 57 53
Equip: Increases your chance to parry an attack by 1%.
Equip: Increased Defense +8.

 

Bloodsoaked Legplates
Binds when picked up

Legs Plate

674 Armor
+36 Strength
+21 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increased Defense +10.

 

Boots of the Unwavering Will
Binds when picked up

Feet Plate

647 Armor
+29 Stamina
+12 Strength
+8 Agility
Durability 75 / 75
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increased Defense +5.

 

Signet Ring of the Bronze Dragonflight
Binds when picked up
Unique

Finger  

+24 Stamina
+13 Strength
Requires Level 60
Requires Brood of Nozdormu - ExaltedEquip: Increased Defense +7.

 

Heavy Dark Iron Ring
Binds when picked up
Unique Finger   110 Armor
+20 Stamina
Requires Level 60

Equip: Increased Defense +5.

 

Styleen's Impeding Scarab
Binds when picked up
Unique

Trinket  

Requires Level 60
Equip: Increases your chance to block attacks with a shield by 5%.
Equip: Increases the block value of your shield by 24.
Equip: Increased Defense +13.

 

Onyxia Blood Talisman
Binds when picked up

Trinket  

+15 Fire Resistance
Equip: Increases your chance to parry an attack by 1%.
Equip: Increased Defense +8.
Equip: Restores 7 health per 5 sec.

 

The Plague Bearer
Binds when picked up

Off Hand Shield

3106 Armor
59 Block
+21 Stamina
+15 Frost Resistance
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 60

Equip: Increased Defense +9.

 

 

This will result into :

 

284 Stamina

8253 Armor

124 Strength

46 Agility

118 + defense talent 10 = 128 + 14 defense from ZG Paladin Enchant = 142 ( 2 over cap and useless/wasted defense )

 

Switching my Chest and Legs to Deathbone will result into

 

Chest = 263 Armor less , 12 Stamina less , 12 Strength less and extra 9 Defense

Legs = 177 Armor less , 1 Stamina less , 36 Strength less and  extra 6 Defense (due to bonus).

 

This will result into  :

 

7813 Armor

271 Stamina

76 Strength

46 Agility

157 Defense = 17 Defense overcap , wasted and useless

 

You can see the reason why i prefer other items over Deathbone

 

Swap weapons mid fight as needed between your best TPS and best avoidance weapon.  If you are really good, swap to TPS weapon when you are able to to use abilities that are SP based, swap right back.  Rotate.

 

 

To be honest , weapon swap does not work and this is false theory by Cystheen unfortunately many get inside this Trap.

 

Consecration in Blizzlike version immediate go down with damage when you swap weapon (sensitive)

Consecration in Private servers does not go down with damage when you swap weapon (flat)

 

Why Cystheen theory was wrong about this :

 

Consecration in Feenix did 100 Damage per tick without any spell damage.

Consecration in all Blizzlike servers does 48 Damage per tick without any spell damage.

 

- Consecration is not our and only threat ability -

 

Every single ability that we have work on Spell Damage and they all get lowered immediate if you swap your weapon which will cause you to loose threats in few seconds.

 

Seal of Righteousness does immediate go down with damage when you swap weapon (core maintarget threat ability) , Judgement of Righteousness is flat/instant , Holy Shield does immediate go down with damage when you swap weapon (core maintarget threat ability) Hammer of Wrath (execution) is cast .

 

The only ability that will remain and inefficient to use more than 2 times is Consecration which is bugged and stay flat instead to go down.

 

My point about Weapon is , you don't want Seal of Righteousness damage to go down which is your main target threat ability

Weapon swap is the main reason why all Paladins fail so far in all private servers following Cystheen Guide .

 

p.s The Gear i have used is not BiS forever (i lack few items like gloves,finger,shield,neck,trinket upgrades)

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Undertanker 88]

Yeah I understand that swapping a weapon will then lower Cons damage that is already laid.  However not all moments is tanking about threat.

 

When you already are high on the threat list, and feel comfortable about not losing threat, why would you focus on then continuing to gain even more threat, when at that point you can focus on reducing your incoming damage.

 

 

"17 Defense overcap , wasted and useless" is only waited if you keep your other gear on.   Eventually you'd want to replace Onxyia Tailsmain with : Glyph of Deflection (since you mention Naxx gear).  Puts you at 9 def over cap.

 

Having Mark of C'Thun would put you at 12 def over cap.  Emp Vek ring over Brooze dragonflight would put you at 14 over.   You can then use your second ring slot for Seal of the Damned .   Puts you at 9 over again.  You can then take off any other item you want pretty much for more SP/Spell Hit. (like replace Emp Vek ring for Archimitros) to counter the stam loss of icebane chest.

 

So you'd get an amazing Block Value trinket, more SP, more spell crit and hit.

 

I'm just bored at work looking at this stuff.  Naturally you go with what is available to you.

 

/cheers.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Undertanker

[killerduki 54]

 

 

When you already are high on the threat list, and feel comfortable about not losing threat, why would you focus on then continuing to gain even more threat, when at that point you can focus on reducing your incoming damage.

 

 

This is true when you offtank targets that will die last , but unlikely to happen mainly because today 90% of Damage Dealers would go always "nerd" or full on maximum dps and main problem for paladin's actually is threats .

Thus Avoidance Weapons are worthless if you are Def Cap already + you loose Intellect which i don't personally recommend and i'd rather recommend The End of Dreams over Avoidance Weapons due to "Stamina" which is our main weakness .

 

Also remember when you weapon swap you will loose: (Average or more) 39-50 TPS by SoR , (Average or more) 30-40 TPS by Holy Shield and "in case Consecration work properly and sensitive on weapon swap" (Average or more) 15-20 TPS by Consecration. 

 

Glad to have such conversation with you <3  and i updated my BiS list that exclude completely Death Bone set and still under Def Cap in new Topic created

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited November 16, 2016 by killerduki

[Undertanker 88]

 

 

Consecration in Blizzlike version immediate go down with damage when you swap weapon (sensitive)

Consecration in Private servers does not go down with damage when you swap weapon (flat)

 

Do you have video proof of this?   As far as I know this is treated as a DoT type of ability and would fall under the following change:

 

Patch 1.10.0 (3/28/2006):

 

Damage over time spells are no longer affected by changes in equipment after the cast.

 

 

If it is in-fact not supposed to be lowered, it would be nice Pre-pull in some moments to have +SP gear on, Hero Charm, pop it, drop Consecration, (pre-pull), swap to tank gear with a macro and pull your mobs over it.   

Edited November 18, 2016 by Undertanker

[killerduki 54]

Do you have video proof of this?   As far as I know this is treated as a DoT type of ability and would fall under the following change:

 

Patch 1.10.0 (3/28/2006):

 

Damage over time spells are no longer affected by changes in equipment after the cast.

 

Consecration is no longer working as dot since earlier patch's .

 

"hidden dots does not apply to that rule"

 

There was old video with guy using weapons , but need to search it again since it was posted somewhere in nost forum or nost bugtracker.

 

Not a big issue tho

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited November 18, 2016 by killerduki

[Spluaks 3]

wow, what a discussion here, hard to understand most things xD thats why people don't trust on tankadins most of the times, because most people don't know how to play it, they try to play it as a warrior and both are very differents

[Trynux 0]

I have never reached the def cap on my paladin so I couldnt test this, but if you guys knew it would be nice.
So when you reach the def cap you Immune to crushing and critical hits as I understand it, does the Talent redoubt (first in the prot talent tree) even proc or does it become useless. I wish to mainly tank 5 mans. Now I understand that you need the def cap for Raids, but if redoubt wouldnt work I feel that for dungeons def cap shoulnt be reached?
 

[kegboy 8]

whats the attack power coefficient for seal of command in vanilla

[kegboy 8]

I have never reached the def cap on my paladin so I couldnt test this, but if you guys knew it would be nice.

So when you reach the def cap you Immune to crushing and critical hits as I understand it, does the Talent redoubt (first in the prot talent tree) even proc or does it become useless. I wish to mainly tank 5 mans. Now I understand that you need the def cap for Raids, but if redoubt wouldnt work I feel that for dungeons def cap shoulnt be reached?

 

if your just tanking 5 mans you wont have to worry about getting defense capped

[Trynux 0]

if your just tanking 5 mans you wont have to worry about getting defense capped

It is doable ofcourse, but its more about min maxing the runs and also to better understand the mechanics involved.

Seal of Command as far I know stacks with spellpower, well the judment does and the proc simply deals 70% of your autoattack as holy

[killerduki 54]

I have never reached the def cap on my paladin so I couldnt test this, but if you guys knew it would be nice.

So when you reach the def cap you Immune to crushing and critical hits as I understand it, does the Talent redoubt (first in the prot talent tree) even proc or does it become useless. I wish to mainly tank 5 mans. Now I understand that you need the def cap for Raids, but if redoubt wouldnt work I feel that for dungeons def cap shoulnt be reached?

 

 

Def cap will not make you immune on crushing blows , but it will make you immune on critical hits and daze .

 

In Raids the difference is huge and you can notice that once you get it .

It is requiring some dedication but you can reach def cap easy , in 5 mans i personally recommend def cap not only because you eat less damage taken , but also because there is no daze which makes your runs smooth and easy

 

p.s visit my youtube channel Killerduki for 5 man tanking as Paladin

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[kegboy 8]

https://theholylight.wordpress.com/2007/07/02/procs-per-minute/

 

seal of command works with attack power and spell power

[killerduki 54]

whats the attack power coefficient for seal of command in vanilla

 

14 Attack Power = 1 Damage per second on Seal of Command

20% coefficient with Spell Damage and 29% coefficient with Holy Damage.

Judgement have 43% coefficient with Spell Damage.

Have 7 PPM = procs per minute .

Does 70% of Weapon Damage and 70% from Enchants with Weapon Damage.

Can Crit 100% and scale from Melee Hit/Crit , same for Judgement .

Can trigger procs by Weapon,Enchants,Trinkets,random Items and Bonuses,Vengeance and same job with its Judgement.

Can increase damage by Sanctity Aura, same for Judgement.

Can dodge,parry,miss and partial resist

Judgement will "full resist" instead dodge/parry/miss and will also partial resist

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited November 22, 2016 by killerduki

[kegboy 8]

14 Attack Power = 1 Damage on Seal of Command

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

 

ok ty but just to make sure did you get this from something before 2008? because during late tbc they buffed the coefficient when removing spell damage from all paladin tier sets and other melee plate gear. but yea 14 = 1 dmg seems really low so that must be before 

 

also since you played elysium can you tell us how reckoning was? like was it like feenix/nost or like kronos where you lose charges from cc?

Edited November 22, 2016 by kegboy

[killerduki 54]

ok ty but just to make sure did you get this from something before 2008? because during late tbc they buffed the coefficient when removing spell damage from all paladin tier sets and other melee plate gear. but yea 14 = 1 dmg seems really low so that must be before 

 

also since you played elysium can you tell us how reckoning was? like was it like feenix/nost or like kronos where you lose charges from cc?

http://web.archive.org/web/20061110225913/http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=11381284&sid=1

 

For attack power for Paladins 14 attack power = 1 DPS. So assuming using SoC. So if the max damage of your weapon is 400 at 2.00 speed (4 attacks over 8 seconds) and assuming you're always swinging at max damage if you add 100 attack power your max damage per swing would be 400 + (100 / 14) * 2 = 414.29

 

Ok , it is 1 DPS per 14 Attack Power for  Seal of Command (depending on the weapon speed each 1.0 speed goes double, not on procs) "i assume bugged in server and this require testing" .

 

In Elysium Reckoning it was working exactly Blizzlike (except special abilities was bit incorrect) explained in blue post and was proved thru Video that should not proc from /Sit .

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited November 22, 2016 by killerduki

[kegboy 8]

what about this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuPEzEoexLI

 

also, http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-paladin/1069149.htm it says that attacking to early and losing charges is a bug and they will fix it. so in elysium is attacking early fine? 

 

also, https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=2062 they say that mounting up does not disable reckoning bomb in a video they find

Edited November 22, 2016 by kegboy

[killerduki 54]

what about this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuPEzEoexLI

 

also, http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-paladin/1069149.htm it says that attacking to early and losing charges is a bug and they will fix it. so in elysium is attacking early fine? 

 

also, https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=2062 they say that mounting up does not disable reckoning bomb in a video they find

 

The Blue post is written with fix during Patch 1.9+ and 1.10 (with implementations via Blizzard)

 

The Video they presented on their bug tracker was before 1.9 "you can see from Consecration icon at enemy debuff" (before Blizzard hotfixed it) .

 

The Video you provided from 2006 "How to be a Gankadin"

 

00:30 - 1st Crit = 1 Stack , 00:34 - 2nd Crit = 2 Stack , 00:40 - 3rd Crit = didn't receive any stack , 00:42 - 4th Crit = 3 Stack , 00:44 - 5th Crit = didn't receive any stack , 00:46 - 6th Crit = didn't receive any stack , 00:53 - 7th Crit = 4 Stack .

 

Your Video prove that Crits during /sit will not reward you "Reck" stacks , but if you are lucky to stand up before the crit (you must be fast for that) then the "Reck" will reward you with stack .

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited November 22, 2016 by killerduki

[Undertanker 88]

Even with being crit immune *440 def* you can still purposely take a crit in 5 mans by /sit macro or pressing x if you didn't rebind it.    Not recommended for hard hitting bosses/raid bosses, but good for AoE tanking trash.

 

Talent isn't worthless as you need it for shield specialization and it becomes a defensive cooldown by taking 1 crit to make take shield block value x5 less damage after.  So if your shield block value x5 =/> 50% of the damage taken from the crit, it helped you.

[Trynux 0]

Even with being crit immune *440 def* you can still purposely take a crit in 5 mans by /sit macro or pressing x if you didn't rebind it.    Not recommended for hard hitting bosses/raid bosses, but good for AoE tanking trash.

 

Talent isn't worthless as you need it for shield specialization and it becomes a defensive cooldown by taking 1 crit to make take shield block value x5 less damage after.  So if your shield block value x5 =/> 50% of the damage taken from the crit, it helped you.

Thank you, yes it did.I wasnt sure if it worked because when I used to do /sit on low lvl mob, they never critted back in nost.

I assumed it was beacause of the higher def making me crit immun to them. That was my thought thou that 1 crit = 5 blocked hits which results in less dmg taken.

[killerduki 54]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DymPtTBzB4

 

posting this because i will need it for Nost bugtracker as evidence

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Theloras 108]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DymPtTBzB4

 

posting this because i will need it for Nost bugtracker as evidence

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

 

for what bug?

[killerduki 54]

for what bug?

 

Old nost SoR bug

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[killerduki 54]

Thanks to Kegboy for inspiring me to find very rare stuff , i will assign this Task to Theloras :

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20061110225913/http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=11381284&sid=1

 

For attack power for Paladins 14 attack power = 1 DPS. So assuming using SoC. So if the max damage of your weapon is 400 at 2.00 speed (4 attacks over 8 seconds) and assuming you're always swinging at max damage if you add 100 attack power your max damage per swing would be 400 + (100 / 14) * 2 = 414.29

 

 

Seal of Command should in fact scale : 14 Attack Power - 1 Damage each 1.0 weapon speed.  Which mean 4.0 weapon speed should grant Paladin Seal of Command from 14 Attack Power 4 Damage.

 

(Theloras please Test this when server release , i assume this doesn't work in server) .

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited November 25, 2016 by killerduki

[killerduki 54]

Here is new bug reported regarding Chromaggus and Holy Damage:

 

https://report.elysium-project.org/issue/4807

 

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited November 25, 2016 by killerduki

[killerduki 54]

Updating Info regarding Maelstrom Trinket :

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20060414181334/http://www.thottbot.com/?i=40869
 

by Arthenix,

 

Tested the proc rate with 3520 hits/crits:
  was exactly 2,5% of chance on hit with draconic maul (3,5 speed)