Highest Proc Rate - Fiery Weapon / Lifestealing / Crusader

[Undertanker 88]

I did forget to factor in Boss armor reduction in the Crusader damage increases.

 

Does anybody know the % armor reduction a boss has when he is raid debuffed?   Thank you in advance.

[killerduki 54]

Start digging up and find the source where F increase your Rage , this will give it more value than it has

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Undertanker 88]

In many private servers there is bug where Warriors generate Rage from "Dodge/Parry/Blocked damage/Miss" while sadly old tracker got removed, i have brought pure evidence where they should not gain Rage from that

 

Also here is formula originally written by Blizzard regarding Rage which is also broken in all Private Servers :

 

https://forum.elysium-project.org/index.php?showtopic=22647

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Are you talking about when getting hit or when doing damage?

 

Patch 1.3:  http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.3.0

 

• Fixed a bug where rage was not being generated when normal melee attacks were parried, dodged, and blocked.

[Undertanker 88]

Start digging up and find the source where F increase your Rage , this will give it more value than it has

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

 

I am still looking, only found mentions of pairing Fiery weapon with thrash blade for more rage, not that Fiery gives rage.  Will continue.

[Sweatyhong 0]

Wow, still a few weeks away from server launch and the drunk guy is already nerding hard I see :P .

[Theloras 108]

As I said earlier Fiery doesn't scale with spell damage or debuffs but Fiery Blaze does (Imp Scorch, CoE or Nightfall) and so does Lifestealing with both spell damage and debuffs (Shadow Weaving, CoS and Nightfall).

 

Here are examples of both scaling and critting:

 

http://imgur.com/a/jqOoT

 

Lifestealing was so good on Nost that it was the best weapon enchant for Retribution by far:

 

http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer.aspx?realm=NRB&player=Theoloras

 

http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer.aspx?realm=NRB&player=Smiter

Edited November 17, 2016 by Theloras

[Undertanker 88]

Wow, still a few weeks away from server launch and the drunk guy is already nerding hard I see :P .

Got to have something to keep myself busy. 3rd shift = slow shift.

[Undertanker 88]

As I said earlier Fiery doesn't scale with spell damage or debuffs but Fiery Blaze does (Imp Scorch, CoE or Nightfall) and so does Lifestealing with both spell damage and debuffs (Shadow Weaving, CoS and Nightfall).

What is the SP to damage ratio?

[Theloras 108]

What is the SP to damage ratio?

standard instant cast spell scaling at 43%

 

then you add the following for either Fiery Blaze or Lifestealing:

 

+10% from Imp Scorch or Shadow Weaving

+10% from CoE or CoS

+15% from Nightfall

 

[killerduki 54]

standard instant cast spell scaling at 43%

 

then you add the following for either Fiery Blaze or Lifestealing:

 

+10% from Imp Scorch or Shadow Weaving

+10% from CoE or CoS

+15% from Nightfall

 

sorry dude

 

http://www.wowhead.com/item=5421/fiery-blaze-enchantment

 

Skelic on 2008/04/17 (Patch 2.4.1)

I have 140 spelldamage, and I see no effect - spelldamage doesnt affect on this one :/

 

 

 

frode73 on 2009/02/25 (Patch 3.0.9)

Confirmed, still doesnt affect the proc

 

 

On old bugtracker i seen thottbot from 2005/6 evidence about it either

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited November 18, 2016 by killerduki

[Theloras 108]

The wowhead comments are from TBC and LK and it was well known and established that Blizzard nerfed vanilla legacy items scaling with spell damage during TBC.

 

"On old bugtracker i seen thottbot from 2005/6 evidence about it either "

 

Are you meaning to say that you previously read evidence on the old nost bug tracker from thottbot that it didn't scale?

[killerduki 54]

Regarding Crusader :

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20060423221205/http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=20034

April 23 2006
 

 

by Rukramaf, 10.1 months ago (which mean July 2005)
Last edit: 10.1 months ago

Got this on my Hammer of the Grand Crusader. Don't really know how often it procs, but usually like 2-3 times during a 1v1 fight against a level 60 mob. Sometimes 0 times, sometimes 7 times.

An added bonus to a hybrid class as myself (shaman)  is that if you have +healing equipment (as my hammer and my Merciful Greaves) the +healing stats seems to be added to the healing from the Crusader proc

I get a lot of heals > 125. And my high spell crit%  seems to play a role too.

Very satisfied with this enchant.

 

An added bonus to a hybrid class as myself (shaman)  is that if you have +healing equipment (as my hammer and my Merciful Greaves) the +healing stats seems to be added to the healing from the Crusader proc

 

 

 

by jonasx, 2.6 months ago (which mean January 2006)
Last edit: 2.6 months ago

This is a random proc based on you being engaged in combat and doing dmg.  Procs that activate off hits say "Chance on hit:". My stats from procwatch for a sample of over  4 hours of actual combat time is 2.1 procs per min.

 

 

 

by Wyste, 1.1 months ago

Someone above cited 2.1 procs per minute, which sounds about right to me. That means, on average, 1 proc every 30 seconds. The Strength bonus from the proc lasts for 15 seconds, so for half of every minute, you'll have +100 Strength. So really, it's just a matter of comparison for you: would you rather have a static +15 Strength, or rely on the proc to give you +100 Strength for half the time?

 

 

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited November 18, 2016 by killerduki

[killerduki 54]

The wowhead comments are from TBC and LK and it was well known and established that Blizzard nerfed vanilla legacy items scaling with spell damage during TBC.

 

"On old bugtracker i seen thottbot from 2005/6 evidence about it either "

 

Are you meaning to say that you previously read evidence on the old nost bug tracker from thottbot that it didn't scale?

 

I will check it out and if i find will give concrete evidence (i could be wrong too)

 

p.s read the Crusader Enchant evidence above , you will like it

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited November 18, 2016 by killerduki

[killerduki 54]

About Lifestealer :

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20061028160202/http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=20032

October 28 2006

 

by nikeo, 7.2 months ago (which mean march 2006)

 

1. It is shadowdamage.
2. Proc = 30 damage. In my combatlog 23, so also 23 health for attacker
3. Proc can be resisted / partially resisted
4. Heal is instantly added to health of attacker
5. Purple glow
6. Proc Can crit (45 dmg then)

A part of my combatlog:

 

 

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Undertanker 88]

@Killerduki.

 

The Crusader PPM you quote above doesn't state they are testing with Auto-Attacks only to get the actual PPM based off of their weapon-speed.    

 

You'll see on my test I linked, both specifically state they used autos only to find the PPM.

 

Then if you look at my calculations, using the 1 PPM from their test of autos only, after I factor in the 40 possible global attacks you can do in 1 minute, it gave the proc a 2.2 PPM.

 

So your test was most likely when they were playing their character using all abilities possible.

[Undertanker 88]

I did forget to factor in Boss armor reduction in the Crusader damage increases.

 

Does anybody know the % armor reduction a boss has when he is raid debuffed?   Thank you in advance.

 

For now, I am going to go with 40%.  I can find no sources from back in the 2004-2006 range on this and 3 different forums nobody has an answer.   What I will go by is I've done a 1.4k shield slam crit on a critter, but get around 850 shield slam crit on a boss.

 

So this means the effect the dps values change a bit:

 

World buffed:

C = 15.24 DPS

F = 14.95 DPS

L = 11.03 DPS

 

Raid Buffed:

C = 13.1 DPS

F = 13.48 DPS

L = 10.05 DPS

 

Now IF lifestealing scales with SP at 43%, as a warrior I can use arcane elixir and shadow power for +75 Shadow damage, at 43% would be +  32 more damage per proc.  Giving me 62 damage a proc.   With CoS and Weaving: 74 damage a proc / 78 damage a proc (world buffed).  With Nightfall up: 83 damage a proc / 90 damage a proc (world buffed)

 

World Buffed

C = 15.24 DPS

F = 14.95 DPS

L = 26.78 DPS  /  30.9 DPS (with Nightfall)

 

Raid Buffed:

C = 13.1 DPS

F = 13.48 DPS

L = 25.4 DPS    /   28.49 DPS (with Nightfall)

 

 

 

Conclusion Updates:

 

With 40% damage reduction to armor taken into account:

 

Crusader is 1.9% better than Fiery Weapon when world buffed, however is 2.1% worse than Fiery when only raid buffed.

 

Lifestealing: IF it works with +SP and shadow damage % debuffs is 75% better than Crusader in terms of damage done. (without Nightfall proc) (comparing world buffed) % is even more self buffed.

 

 

Summary:

 

If rage starvations are an issue due to any "changes" then I will have to use Crusader.

 

Through my testing thus far, Fiery is close enough to Crusader +/- 2% w/ and w/o world buffs that it will synergize well with DMC: Maelstrom and I will use Fiery Weapon.

 

If Lifestealing does work with +SP and +% to shadow damage debuffs, I will use Lifestealing.

 

 

@Theloras:  I continue to not include Fiery Blaze as I do not want the AoE damage to break any CC at any point and Lifestealing would appear to come out ahead vs the two any ways (if scaling works)

Edited November 18, 2016 by Undertanker

[Sweatyhong 0]

Got to have something to keep myself busy. 3rd shift = slow shift.

Might have to make a tank and put all this math to the test. Not like there's a ton do on K1 these days anyway .

[Theloras 108]

Yea, that's fine about Fiery Blaze and seeing as we will be using the original Nost core once it transfers over to Elysium, then yes, Lifestealing will be scaling at 43% as it had been back on Nost.

 

Whether that changes over time is anyone's guess but in the mean time enjoy!

[Storfan 24]

I would just like to point out that Life Steal does indeed scale with SP/debuffs etc, I had it crit for like 200dmg on Chromaggus once. This was on Nostalrius and a VERY rare occurance.

[Undertanker 88]

Thanks for the heads up on that, yeah I kept a Deathbringer with Lifestealing in bag just for BWL wyrmkin and chroma shadow Vul and would put Alcor's on during fire vul prior to TF.

As long as rage stays the same, I will be using Lifestealing, more consumables to use though RIP.

[killerduki 54]

 

Are you talking about when getting hit or when doing damage?

 

Patch 1.3:  http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.3.0

 

• Fixed a bug where rage was not being generated when normal melee attacks were parried, dodged, and blocked.

 

 

 

There are Videos disapproving this Posted them on old Elysium bugtracker as evidence but got removed with merge

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[killerduki 54]

 

Are you talking about when getting hit or when doing damage?

 

Patch 1.3:  http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.3.0

 

• Fixed a bug where rage was not being generated when normal melee attacks were parried, dodged, and blocked.

 

 

Alright the Incoming Dodge/Parry/Block should not generate Rage , only outcoming according to Videos from 2006

 

Fixed my mistake

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Plask 4]

For now, I am going to go with 40%.  I can find no sources from back in the 2004-2006 range on this and 3 different forums nobody has an answer.   What I will go by is I've done a 1.4k shield slam crit on a critter, but get around 850 shield slam crit on a boss.

 

So this means the effect the dps values change a bit:

 

World buffed:

C = 15.24 DPS

F = 14.95 DPS

L = 11.03 DPS

 

Raid Buffed:

C = 13.1 DPS

F = 13.48 DPS

L = 10.05 DPS

 

Now IF lifestealing scales with SP at 43%, as a warrior I can use arcane elixir and shadow power for +75 Shadow damage, at 43% would be +  32 more damage per proc.  Giving me 62 damage a proc.   With CoS and Weaving: 74 damage a proc / 78 damage a proc (world buffed).  With Nightfall up: 83 damage a proc / 90 damage a proc (world buffed)

 

World Buffed

C = 15.24 DPS

F = 14.95 DPS

L = 26.78 DPS  /  30.9 DPS (with Nightfall)

 

Raid Buffed:

C = 13.1 DPS

F = 13.48 DPS

L = 25.4 DPS    /   28.49 DPS (with Nightfall)

 

 

 

Conclusion Updates:

 

With 40% damage reduction to armor taken into account:

 

Crusader is 1.9% better than Fiery Weapon when world buffed, however is 2.1% worse than Fiery when only raid buffed.

 

Lifestealing: IF it works with +SP and shadow damage % debuffs is 75% better than Crusader in terms of damage done. (without Nightfall proc) (comparing world buffed) % is even more self buffed.

 

 

Summary:

 

If rage starvations are an issue due to any "changes" then I will have to use Crusader.

 

Through my testing thus far, Fiery is close enough to Crusader +/- 2% w/ and w/o world buffs that it will synergize well with DMC: Maelstrom and I will use Fiery Weapon.

 

If Lifestealing does work with +SP and +% to shadow damage debuffs, I will use Lifestealing.

 

 

@Theloras:  I continue to not include Fiery Blaze as I do not want the AoE damage to break any CC at any point and Lifestealing would appear to come out ahead vs the two any ways (if scaling works)

Lifestealing does not deal close to that damage versus bosses, it's counted as a spell so you have 18% miss chance and it also has partial resists 25%/50%/75% (partials are the worst reductors, in average expect to do around 65% of damage after misses). I'm pretty sure Fiery is also counted as a spell. Crusader DPS seems inflated, then again I have no idea what stats "worldbuffed" means ;p

Edited December 27, 2016 by Plask

[Undertanker 88]

I will update it with some more math on the partial resist with CoS on boss.

Though since the updates to tank rage, it's mute point tbh. Using Crusader for more rage gains.