Raiding as a Druid ? What spec to choose ?

[Lorilay 12]

Being "not a liability" means not being carried, buffing without asking and supporting other healers on the fly, vanilla is simple as it comes to raiding. When people bring Raid logs into a conversation is pretty laughable.

 

Besides I was carried by Fith

The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one. Keep that head buried in the sand, buddy.

You realize it's possible to things like buff the raid and support other healers while also having a higher healing output than your shitty PvP spec will allow? I literally posted evidence of druids in ZG gear being #5 and #6 in effective healing (aka not overhealing) in BWL. The first shaman on the list is #18.

You keep spouting off inaccurate statements as if they were facts, even when confronted with direct evidence to the contrary. Ultimately, it makes you look like you really don't know what you're talking about, and it's pretty clear that you're content to raid with a suboptimal spec and be carried by other people. If that's your yardstick for success as a druid, then there's really no convincing you otherwise, but you'd be very unlikely to remain in a competitive guild for long with that attitude.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Lorilay

[Mot 0]

 

The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one. Keep that head buried in the sand, buddy.

You realize it's possible to things like buff the raid and support other healers while also having a higher healing output than your shitty PvP spec will allow? I literally posted evidence of druids in ZG gear being #5 and #6 in effective healing (aka not overhealing) in BWL. The first shaman on the list is #18.

You keep spouting off inaccurate statements as if they were facts, even when confronted with direct evidence to the contrary. Ultimately, it makes you look like you really don't know what you're talking about, and it's pretty clear that you're content to raid with a suboptimal spec and be carried by other people. If that's your yardstick for success as a druid, then there's really no convincing you otherwise, but you'd be very unlikely to remain in a competitive guild for long with that attitude.

 

Listen asshole, I was joking about Fith, if that wasn't painfully obvious. Just cause you think druids are all of a sudden top healers doesn't make it factual. RP is not the be-all-end-all of proofs for vanilla output raid viability. Meters can be spoofed easily, and posting or relying on healing meters to prove a point makes you look retarded. 

 

If you don't like the spec, keep casting regrowth and be happy. Claiming the spec sucks or is for pvp only just makes you look like an ignorant noob. 

[Lorilay 12]

Listen asshole, I was joking about Fith, if that wasn't painfully obvious. Just cause you think druids are all of a sudden top healers doesn't make it factual. RP is not the be-all-end-all of proofs for vanilla output raid viability. Meters can be spoofed easily, and posting or relying on healing meters to prove a point makes you look retarded. 

 

If you don't like the spec, keep casting regrowth and be happy. Claiming the spec sucks or is for pvp only just makes you look like an ignorant noob.

So you're saying <Return>, <Renaissance>, and <Solace> posted spoofed meters over the course of months as a part of a conspiracy to discredit your future argument? Those are the average of their 3 best performances out of ther most recent (at the time) 5 in BWL, not just a single raid. How would you gauge someone's healing output instead of quantifying their total healing minus overhealing? We're actually looking at switching over to more complete raid logging that includes dispels, but at the end of the day your job in a raid is to heal as much as you can, and if you can heal 4 times as much as you're currently doing, that means you can carry more of your own weight. Surely you have some metric that goes beyond such achievements as "buffing the raid" and "supporting other healers?"

Edited December 13, 2016 by Lorilay

[StarecaseXD 0]

- What attitude? I come to raid with friends who I've known for years not masturbate to MC clear times or max efficient healing on Broodlord Lashslayer lmao. They know I'm a good healer, I could give 2 shits about what some random thinks about my performance. Being "not a liability" means not being carried, buffing without asking and supporting other healers on the fly, vanilla is simple as it comes to raiding. When people bring Raid logs into a conversation is pretty laughable.

 

- This sub par pvp spec can heal everything in the game in any role be it raid or tank and offers more defensive options for yourself and the group. You're downplaying it because you don't like it. Simple as that. I'll backpedal and say that perhaps its not the only viable spec, but it is, in my opinion far and away the best for a druid in all situations. Hence why I recommended it.

 

- There's nothing new or innovative in this 12 year old game. Druids can't compete with Paladins, Priests or Shamans that have a brain. You're there to provide utility. 

 

- Good for you man. I can't speak to your ability or inability as a healer, just point out that your claim that druids are there for utility, and incapable of competing with other healers, is wrong.

- I'm not denying it can, I'm calling into question your assertion that it is  the best spec in the game for a resto druid. I don't mind it, I just prefer regrowth.

- Innovative was the wrong word but NT/Regrowth is newer and players in general have a lot more knowledge and ability to optimize gear and spec now.

 

WTF is your metric for determining that druids can't compete if you are ignoring healing meters?

[Mot 0]

Look its simple class mechanics. I'm not making this up, the only efficient single target heal that a druid has (keyword efficient) is HT Rank 4. That's a 2s cast timer and heals for less than Heal R4 or a crit FOL max rank. I'm not saying druids CAN'T put up good numbers, but having more than 2 in a raid is wasted slots when you could be running more priests / paladins for their obvious additional benefits.

 

To be perfectly honest if a druid is beating priests / paladins over the course of a raid it may indicate a proficiency in the druids skill and possibility the spec is more viable (see regrowth spec) ;however its more likely that the lacking factor is the main healing output in the raid is very weak for the assigned roles.  That being said, the exponential increase in paladin / priest / shaman power is seen through AQ / Naxx so its entirely possible that druids are holding their own in the current state of the game.

[taladril 43]

Mot, I'd like to help you but at this point I'm not sure what your focus is that you're arguing. I say this because I don't want to just spout off every inaccuracy I see because I'm sure posts have a character limit.

So are you arguing the role of druids in raids? (if so the realmstats proved that one otherwise so that seems like a bad choice) 

Are you arguing your spec? (play what you want, I'm sure it works but it is mathematically not optimal for "healing" and may be a reason why you feel that druids are suboptimal healers)

Are you arguing a general sense of raid knowledge? (Ok so you're 8/8 on a server with scripting that makes naxx tank and spank)

 

I'd like to help as even the build you are going for is suboptimal for a pvp hybrid spec but it seems you just like being mad at us. I get it too cause we're reacting poorly to your posts... Even though I know the druid community is pretty nice.

[nanoxo 0]

Mot, as someone that only made  to MC playing a Resto Druid, I can say that for almost all of the players you are right.

 

Most of the Druids you ar arguing with, are Resto Druid Fanboys or people that simply are in love with the Resto Druid, but the majority of players that roll a Resto Druid hate to feel forced to play this spec, simply check the polls in multiple forums when people ask wich druid spec they're planing to play and Resto is always at the bottom, so Mot's spec offers a funnier way to play to most Druid players.

 

This people bring up the meters so much because that's the thing they like to play (the optimal resto Druid for a completely controlled specific situation), but the majority of the Druid community feels that playing this way is not fun at all. On the other hand Mot's spec and playstyle is more situational, more active and less monotonous, in other words more fun (at least for 7 out of 10 Druids). When Mot recommend his spec, is because he is a realistic player that knows that the Druid is going to have to heal in raids to get a spot, but you people bringing out their numbers are what make the Druid the least played class, you are recommending to play to be "optimal", play "Swit Med" or "Moonglow", it should be enough that we have to play as resto, but you are also trying to force us into play poorly in every other aspect of the game besides raiding, that's what is making playing the Druid an horrible experience, you're just seeing the "questionable viability" as the factor that makes people not play Druid, when in fact are that stupid stigmas and the monotonous playstyle of your resto Druid specs that you are recommending the thing that is keeping away new players to roll a Druid.

 

I want all of you to think about this, Mot have talked about having fun while playing a Druid in his comments, but almost all of you are talking about is how to have nice numbers in a web page.

 

Have a nice day.

Edited December 14, 2016 by nanoxo

[taladril 43]

I think you're missing on why we are hating on Mot and his spec. It's actually for the very same reasons that you are frustrated as well. His very first sentence was this:

 

 

 

The only viable end game druid spec is hot based Swift Mend.

 

He was the one that is trying to pigeon hole the class. He's the one telling you that you're nothing but a heal bot. And then his example spec is not what any min/maxer would consider "viable" (again as per his quote). He is touting that druids are sub capable healers - something that good druids don't want to hear. In the same breath he is saying to not take a spec that is 100% optimal for quality healing. So what are we supposed to think? We aren't bashing him for having a hybrid spec or enjoying the game how he wants to. We are angry that he is telling us to spec a specific way - a way that isn't optimized for healing at all. So what do we do? We react angrily and rightfully so because his experience is not reflected in raid stats and his opinions for what a healing druid can do are off base.

 

No one will tell you how to spec. That's your decision. If you want to raid, some specs are harder to convince a raid leader than others. If you don't like the truth of that then you can go the easy road and heal or keep looking for a guild that will find a spot for you. No one will tell you that you are wrong. But if you come here and tell us that certain specs are the only option or that they are optimal when they objectively are not then we will tell you that you are wrong. If that happens, it's up to you to take a step back and learn more about what we are saying or you can just get mad about it.

[Lorilay 12]

It's worth pointing out that I actually raid with a swiftmend-based build because I prefer it (and switch to an 8/11/32 spec for pvp). I just don't make any claims about it being the only viable spec and wave around my gear as evidence for that.

[Mot 0]

Mot, as someone that only made  to MC playing a Resto Druid, I can say that for almost all of the players you are right.

 

Most of the Druids you ar arguing with, are Resto Druid Fanboys or people that simply are in love with the Resto Druid, but the majority of players that roll a Resto Druid hate to feel forced to play this spec, simply check the polls in multiple forums when people ask wich druid spec they're planing to play and Resto is always at the bottom, so Mot's spec offers a funnier way to play to most Druid players.

 

This people bring up the meters so much because that's the thing they like to play (the optimal resto Druid for a completely controlled specific situation), but the majority of the Druid community feels that playing this way is not fun at all. On the other hand Mot's spec and playstyle is more situational, more active and less monotonous, in other words more fun (at least for 7 out of 10 Druids). When Mot recommend his spec, is because he is a realistic player that knows that the Druid is going to have to heal in raids to get a spot, but you people bringing out their numbers are what make the Druid th

e least played class, you are recommending to play to be "optimal", play "Swit Med" or "Moonglow", it should be enough that we have to play as resto, but you are also trying to force us into play poorly in every other aspect of the game besides raiding, that's what is making playing the Druid an horrible experience, you're just seeing the "questionable viability" as the factor that makes people not play Druid, when in fact are that stupid stigmas and the monotonous playstyle of your resto Druid specs that you are recommending the thing that is keeping away new players to roll a Druid.

 

I want all of you to think about this, Mot have talked about having fun while playing a Druid in his comments, but almost all of you are talking about is how to have nice numbers in a web page.

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

Well said thank you. 

 

 

I think you're missing on why we are hating on Mot and his spec. It's actually for the very same reasons that you are frustrated as well. His very first sentence was this:

 

 

He was the one that is trying to pigeon hole the class. He's the one telling you that you're nothing but a heal bot. And then his example spec is not what any min/maxer would consider "viable" (again as per his quote). He is touting that druids are sub capable healers - something that good druids don't want to hear. In the same breath he is saying to not take a spec that is 100% optimal for quality healing. So what are we supposed to think? We aren't bashing him for having a hybrid spec or enjoying the game how he wants to. We are angry that he is telling us to spec a specific way - a way that isn't optimized for healing at all. So what do we do? We react angrily and rightfully so because his experience is not reflected in raid stats and his opinions for what a healing druid can do are off base.

 

No one will tell you how to spec. That's your decision. If you want to raid, some specs are harder to convince a raid leader than others. If you don't like the truth of that then you can go the easy road and heal or keep looking for a guild that will find a spot for you. No one will tell you that you are wrong. But if you come here and tell us that certain specs are the only option or that they are optimal when they objectively are not then we will tell you that you are wrong. If that happens, it's up to you to take a step back and learn more about what we are saying or you can just get mad about it.

 

To be fair if you read my prior post I did backpedal and claim that I shouldn't have stated it was the "only" viable spec. That being said, nothing you can add to that spec should severely alter your healing output versus a heavier pointed resto tree as the regrowth spec demonstrates. To understand the differences:

 

Regrowth spec gains:

- Healing knockback reduction

- Threat reduction

- 50% Regrowth Crit

 

Im not even in favor of calling my spec "hybrid" as you put it anyways as it's deep resto so I'll simply call it complete as it contains all the vanilla druid staples:

- Instant Feral Charge

- Instant Bash

- Shapeshifting cost reduction

- More armor in bear

 

^These are the main differences that I can spot.

 

I never needed threat reduction or healing knockback as it only affected me on maybe 1-2 encounters, I see these as wasted points. If the tank is good these really don't matter much. Regrowth crit obviously used for downranking and more tank healing, again I don't see why this is a defining aspect that would make me spend 5 points into the skill. To me it seems like overkill. Regardless, play the spec you want, druids are fun as hell and highly sought after for raiding. To anyone new who is on the fence mastering a druid is very fun and pays dividends (hopefully you have good ping for shifting xD)

[StarecaseXD 0]

To be fair if you read my prior post I did backpedal and claim that I shouldn't have stated it was the "only" viable spec. That being said, nothing you can add to that spec should severely alter your healing output versus a heavier pointed resto tree as the regrowth spec demonstrates. To understand the differences:

 

Regrowth spec gains:

- Healing knockback reduction

- Threat reduction

- 50% Regrowth Crit

 

Im not even in favor of calling my spec "hybrid" as you put it anyways as it's deep resto so I'll simply call it complete as it contains all the vanilla druid staples:

- Instant Feral Charge

- Instant Bash

- Shapeshifting cost reduction

- More armor in bear

 

^These are the main differences that I can spot.

 

I never needed threat reduction or healing knockback as it only affected me on maybe 1-2 encounters, I see these as wasted points. If the tank is good these really don't matter much. Regrowth crit obviously used for downranking and more tank healing, again I don't see why this is a defining aspect that would make me spend 5 points into the skill. To me it seems like overkill. Regardless, play the spec you want, druids are fun as hell and highly sought after for raiding. To anyone new who is on the fence mastering a druid is very fun and pays dividends (hopefully you have good ping for shifting xD)

 

Regrowth druids still pick up Imp HT b/c on longer fights, spamming nothing but regrowth will lead to mana issues. The 50% crit on regrowth is nice b/c it also gives you a fairly reliable way to reduce the cast time of HT3 and HT4 by an additional half a second. Spec I will be using is going to look like this.

 

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#0x0xhMVoZZxvcobaV

 

Nobody here is arguing that you HAVE to play the spec in order to be an effective healer, rather that there is an option if you want to compete with other classes for the top of the charts. I get that it isn't important for everyone but there are players that like to try and push #s.

 

Ultimately you can be an effective healer with whichever spec you chose. Druids scale very well and provide more options in regards to spec and playstyle than any other healer. Would recommend/10

[Mot 0]

 

"Druids can't compete with Paladins, Priests or Shamans that have a brain. You're there to provide utility."

 

Mot you are INCREDIBLE KEEP IT COMING

 

 

Glad I could provide entertainment in the days of wait. 

[Asherdoom 5]

to all who says balance is not for raiding:

http://i.imgur.com/0M9hqoc.jpg          (look who is first in damage)

 

personally ppl state druid must only raid resto because of 2 main reasons:

1)they never played druid at all in vanilla and do the thiking "It has rest spec so it MUST be resto" which is wrong because druid spells are casted in 3 seconds which is an eternity for an heal

2) They dont even know how to spec balance or dress it. i will leave this guide here. It was of my buddy in wow one where we took that screenshot and got lot of fun together in raid (he used to be mooonkin till naxx so yes, it is very viable)

 

http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/81946-moonkin-naxx-raider-1115-amalogsetc/

 

good luck!

[bigbigtrain 0]

Also keep in mind there are bugs within private servers where some classes get so overpowered from beneficial bugs (mainly viable ones) while there are many nerfing bugs (mainly hybrids).

 

Such as Rage,Ignite,Dodge,Crit etc.

 

Warriors for example benefit so much from Rage due to wrong formulas used , Mages benefit so much from Ignite due to wrong formula , Druids are so much nerfed due to wrong Dodge calculation formula and Crit and so on . 

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Wait what can you explain this further what is wrong with the formulas how does this effect druid differently then retail

[Asherdoom 5]

personally, and i talk for MY EXPERIANCE, back in the days i raided as balance druid till khel thuzad without problem, in 2007. (prior tbc released)

i would say to ya to quit the tunnel vision concernng vanilla druid and experiment.

 

Feral is mainly offtank spec , because kitty dont have lot of pve stuff to increase dps side of feral nor dedicated armor. All druid tiers are thought as caster ones.

Balance is my favourite. Moonkin aura Boost a lot the mage group i was assigned too. Free innervate for healers (unlike many ppl says you ill never use it on yourself if you got consumables+bloodvine set) and another combat ress, which is the druid strongpoint.

screen of dps back in the days

relative guide here http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/81946-moonkin-naxx-raider-1115-amalogsetc/

Healing druid is interesting aswell. you dont have any 1.5sec cat ok, but you got hots, which help in aoe healing and regrowth is expensive but OP as spec by my point of view.

what lacks in speed is compensated by versatility. and for 5 man dungeons you are a lifesaver thanks to Tranquillity in case something goes bad.

remember : you are HYBRID CLASS not FULL DPS or FULL HEALER or FULL TANK, so dont get misdirected on that

[`Xdembe` 47]

to all who says balance is not for raiding:

http://i.imgur.com/0M9hqoc.jpg          (look who is first in damage)

 

personally ppl state druid must only raid resto because of 2 main reasons:

1)they never played druid at all in vanilla and do the thiking "It has rest spec so it MUST be resto" which is wrong because druid spells are casted in 3 seconds which is an eternity for an heal

2) They dont even know how to spec balance or dress it. i will leave this guide here. It was of my buddy in wow one where we took that screenshot and got lot of fun together in raid (he used to be mooonkin till naxx so yes, it is very viable)

 

http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/81946-moonkin-naxx-raider-1115-amalogsetc/

 

good luck!

who first in curingdone? not you? sorry not today