Basic Holy Priest guide - "What the light will tell you."

[Brem 0]

On 1/10/2017 at 11:26 AM, Haestingas said:

For the people advocating renew, I encourage you to download DPSmate which tracks all your healing and lets you really see how much renew is actually doing. I think you will be surprised how little effective healing renew generates.

You sure? I would challenge you to compare DPSmate Effective Healing Meters with me :) I think you would be thoroughly surprised after certain raids / fights. It is highly dependent on the fights. But if you are healing proactively and there is a lot of damage going out on the raid it is actually extremely effective.

If the majority of it is going into overhealing then your guild is either overgeared for the content or you have too many healers. I assure you that renew is a very strong spell but it IS situational. You need to know when it's good and how to make it effective. If you can't do that then yes, you might as well not use it.

There is an issue with overwriting renews from other priests during the raid. If you wanna talk about how bad renew is, at least mention this in your argument. It is a complete and utter waste if your priest group continuously overwrites each others' renews. It may be on accident or it may be to try to look better on the meters but you are essentially wasting your mana and the other priests' mana by doing this. Therefore, I force all of my priests to use this macro in place of their max rank renew to make sure this doesn't happen: 

/run local check=true; for i=1,32 do if UnitBuff("target",i)~=nil then if string.find(UnitBuff("target",i),"Spell_Holy_Renew") then check=false; end end end if check==true then CastSpellByName("Renew(Rank 10)"); end

 

Here are some good fights from MC, BWL, and AQ40 that I think really can make renew shine:

MC

Shazzrah - Pretty nice to avoid the counterspell and keep heals going. As far as I know, BigWigs doesn't have a timer for the counterspell so you either try to count it in your head or spam renew.

Golemagg - Extremely good to use on melee. I typically spam R3.

 

BWL

Razorgore - Phase 2 ONLY on conflagged tanks. Otherwise not very useful.

Vael - Should have 100% uptime of max rank on MT

Suppression Room - Very efficient for hatchers, especially when more than 1 are pulled. Can spam down rank on melee.

Chrom - Should keep it applied before breaths on MT. Especially good for the poison breath.

 

AQ40

Bug Trio - Specifically when the raid is killing Kri. Especially if you are light on poison cleansers.

Visc - Can blanket the raid with down rank.

Huhu - Should definitely try to keep max rank up on tank due to the stacking poison and constant damage. Can also blanket the raid with down rank.

Cthun - Lots of movement gives you time to use it quite a bit.

[Shayss 43]

Hello Brem,

Does

/run local check=true; for i=1,32 do if UnitBuff("target",i)~=nil then if string.find(UnitBuff("target",i),"Spell_Holy_Renew") then check=false; end end end if check==true then CastSpellByName("Renew(Rank 10)"); end

Work here in vanilla?

[Brem 0]

1 hour ago, Shayss said:

Hello Brem,

Does

/run local check=true; for i=1,32 do if UnitBuff("target",i)~=nil then if string.find(UnitBuff("target",i),"Spell_Holy_Renew") then check=false; end end end if check==true then CastSpellByName("Renew(Rank 10)"); end

Work here in vanilla?

It sure does! That's the macro I have been using for my priest on VanillaGaming which is another vanilla private server. I take rank 10 renew off my bars and just replace it with that basically.

It basically just prevents you from casting renew if there is already 1 applied to the target.

The only issue I have seen with it is for the 8 set t2. Technically speaking, I believe it should be a different "buff" but I don't think it has been letting me apply both. I'll have to do further testing since I only use 8 set t2 for Maexnna in Naxx right now. But other then that it works perfectly!

[xestikas 0]

Quote

Pocket Tanks:
Make friends with tanks. Make them love you. If you are good you can pick them up whenever you wana do a tribute run for buffs.

<3

[Shayss 43]

Xestikas knows from experience.

[HolyPriest 0]

On 1/31/2017 at 11:03 PM, Brem said:

The only issue I have seen with it is for the 8 set t2. Technically speaking, I believe it should be a different "buff" but I don't think it has been letting me apply both. I'll have to do further testing since I only use 8 set t2 for Maexnna in Naxx right now. But other then that it works perfectly!

This is because you've been playing on servers where it hasn't been fixed. The 8/8 set bonus "renew" is indeed a separate hot from actual Renew. It was fixed on Nostalrius and works properly on Elysium.

Renew is still crap. 99.999% of times it will be wasted as overheal because Paladins or Shamans (or druids hots) will top up the raid before Renew goes to the end. Maybe that'll change in Naxxramas. But for ZG/MC/BWL it is a waste of talent points and usually a waste of mana. Sure, have one priest have 3/3 Imp Renew and slap it on tanks in boss fights but that's the extent of its usefulness.

[Spaztick 0]

Is there a pre-AQ BiS list floating around? Intuition tells me T2 + Benediction or Lokamir and various trinkets.

[Shayss 43]

There most certainly are but this tread is specifically for up and coming priests.

If someone wants to add pre-bis lists for BWL / AQ / NAXX in this thread, then that is fine aswell : )

 

[Brem 0]

On 2/24/2017 at 0:32 PM, HolyPriest said:

This is because you've been playing on servers where it hasn't been fixed. The 8/8 set bonus "renew" is indeed a separate hot from actual Renew. It was fixed on Nostalrius and works properly on Elysium.

Apologies if I did not make myself clear originally. I was not referring to the mechanics of renew and 8 set bonus working properly (which is does on VG afaik). I was instead referring to the functionality of the macro. It seems like something in the macro needs to be changed because you can't use it when the target has 8 set t2 hot on them. But if you just use any rank of renew from your spell book, it applies perfectly fine with the 8 set bonus.

On 2/24/2017 at 0:32 PM, HolyPriest said:

Renew is still crap. 99.999% of times it will be wasted as overheal because Paladins or Shamans (or druids hots) will top up the raid before Renew goes to the end. Maybe that'll change in Naxxramas. But for ZG/MC/BWL it is a waste of talent points and usually a waste of mana. Sure, have one priest have 3/3 Imp Renew and slap it on tanks in boss fights but that's the extent of its usefulness.

I agree with you to an extent. Renew is a very niche spell and it's not worth it to have multiple priests using it all the time. It does contribute a considerable amount of overhealing but that's just why you need to know when and how to use it effectively. I always recommend new raiders to spec into 1 or 2/3 imp renew simply because they will be gearing up in dungeons and will probably want it for 5/10 mans. But once you're done getting prebis and mainly just do 40 mans, I recommend speccing out of it completely. Having 1 priest in the raid with 3/3 keeping it up on tanks is the best way to do it. I listed multiple fights above that renew can be extremely beneficial though. So I would seriously argue your statistic of 99.999% waste.

Detailed Prebis/MC/BWL list from Nost:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l2o5WhYf18AsprwRoLYvuaSP96Y2xxJE743xXyenfHk/edit#gid=1585012469

 

AQ40+Naxx bis list I personally made due to lack of information on other websites:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AMYy7gq5rSPqxexw6KWADPMXagng5gYynmo_HPhNgos/pubhtml#

[HolyPriest 0]

You don't need Renew in dungeons either. Use a Heal or Greater Heal, then wand until needed to heal again. If you need to use Renew, putting talent points into it is a waste, as the talent only improves the base healing of the spell, which is completely outclassed as soon as the priest gets any +heal gear. Yeah, in a raid one priest with 3/3 imp renew can be useful since you want to squeeze out every possible advantage but that's it. I would never recommend a priest to put any points into it during leveling.

And sure, 99.999 is exaggeration but the bosses you claimed where it's useful - well, I think you're exaggerating.

BigWigs does have a timer for Shazzrath's counter-spell so you can easily enough time bigger heals around it - we have time to drop 4-5 big heals between each CS. On Golemagg, it's better again to cast Heal or Greater Heal on the melee. Remember that Renew still costs you that 1.5 second GCD.

Razorgore is a moot point because one priest will blanket tanks with the imp renew, nobody else uses it. Same on Vael. I prefer using PWS on melee on Vael alternating between it and Prayer of Healing for my own group. Suppression room you don't need it at all and PWS can be better (or at least as useful) during transition phases anyway. Chromaggus same as with Razorgore and Vael - just that one priest uses it, nobody else.

The cases where you say "blanket the raid" are misleading. What encounter allows time for priests to waste 5-10 GCDs (depending on raid composition) on just Renew? You'd be usually better either casting Prayer of Healing if the group you're in has taken damage or just individual Heals/Greater Heals. Renew is useless if it doesn't tick - either because the target has been topped up by another healer or because the target took damage and died. And you still have to wait the GCD.

I'm not saying that Renew is useless, it does have its uses and it's better to have a HoT and not need it, than to not have it and end up needing it, but recommending priests to use it and especially of wasting multiple GCDs on Renew instead of proper heal spells isn't a good idea in my opinion.

[Maxvla 0]

On 1/31/2017 at 11:55 AM, Brem said:

Maybe it's just because I hate dwarves in general, but I disagree with this. Fear ward is strong for certain fights and stoneform has uses in AQ but I think you are undervaluing the benefit of 5% spirit from humans. Your tanks should be good enough to handle stance dancing and not need your fear ward. Spirit is just so op for priests, why pass up the opportunity to get a free 5% bonus?? You also don't mention Desperate Prayer at all which I think is strange. I can't tell you how much I love having that instant cast self heal. It has saved my life too many times to count.

As far as talents go, they are pretty cookie cutter but I would recommend something more like this: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#bxT0sV0oZdxtcc0Vx

Personally, I see no value in having 3/3 Imp PW:S. I have found that there are very few fights that I make good use of it and have moved those points into Silent Resolve. You can generate an enormous amount of threat during trash and some boss fights through GH, PoH, and spamming max rank FH once you've got some good gear. Fade just doesn't cut it sometimes. 4/5 SR plus threat reduction enchant on your cloak does wonders.

It's generally accepted to have 1 priest in the raid be your designated "Renew Priest." This guy should be using 3/3 Imp Renew. I'm always partial to having 1 or 2 points in it though because most people are doing dungeons and what not outside of raid.

Every priest should have Divine Spirit imo. There's no reason not to get it simply because there is no other worthwhile talent to replace it with. It saves mana and raid time if all priests have it.

Dwarves also have Desperate Prayer, so that point is moot.

All of the raid level fearing bosses have fear timers of slightly less than 30 seconds, meaning a warrior can typically only get every other fear with stance dance. Having at least 1 dwarf in the raid is nearly mandatory for a smooth experience. We run with 3 and use 2 on the tank and the third typically buffs the highest dps rogue. With 3 in the raid, smart pre-buffing ward before a fearing boss can mean a significant reduction in kill time. Before Magmadar and Nef, we typically end up having every rogue, warrior, and tank fear warded to ignore the first one entirely. For Ony, by the time we get buffed/clear trash we'll have it on all the melee and probably half of the ranged. This means no cleaves from bad fears at the start of phase 3, and faster kill time in p3. 5% spirit just cannot compare to this utility. In Naxx gear, you will probably be around 400 spirit, so that human racial gives you an extra 20 spirit. Not very impressive.

I am the same spec you linked, except instead of improved renew, I put the extra point into spell warding. 2% spell damage isn't much, but it's better than buffing a renew I will never use, or putting it anywhere else. I agree with not speccing for imp shield, mostly because it is not very efficient, and the difference between talented shield and not will probably not decide whether that person at critically low hp lives or not.

We use a renew priest with 3/3 imp renew which he keeps on tanks. It is almost never useful for any other target, despite what you go on to say in other posts.

I also agree on Divine Spirit. Even the 3/3 imp renew priest can get it, sacrificing only 1% holy crit.

[TheDoc 0]

Good guide overall, but I'd like to point out a few things.

GH R1 is pretty similar to Max rank Heal if you compare their output, making Heal the cheaper and only slightly weaker option. As soon as you get the T2 bonus it'll do a nice job, but I wouldn't use it before that.

Renew Rank 3 has a 100% coefficient at ~95 Mana (Close to 10 Heal per Mana) . If Melee take heavy DoT (golemagg, surpression), it will most likely not be wasted. And after some time, even heal snipes will become less frequent as your raiding guild gathers experience. You can also cast it while running! Buff your locks between the packs, they will lifetap.

Lightwell:

Step 1: Find a (competent) warlock

Step 2: Become best friends

Step 3: Place lightwell before boss starts

Step 4: Get full mana

Free Healing!

 

Edited April 20, 2017 by TheDoc

[Jcus 0]

On 1/10/2017 at 0:26 PM, Haestingas said:

For the people advocating renew, I encourage you to download DPSmate which tracks all your healing and lets you really see how much renew is actually doing. I think you will be surprised how little effective healing renew generates.

I did this for my last MC raid and it was about 20% of my healing (distant second after flash) with far less overhealing than any of my other spells. Definitely one of my more efficient heals. The thing with renew is that it's context dependent. You don't throw it on people arbitrarily after they take damage. But if you know when and how to use it, it's an invaluable tool.

[flowqz 34]

renew is a good spell. just use it when there is nothing to heal at the moment and in fights with sustained incoming dmg.

[mollypercocet 1]

i stopped using renew in raids when i realized it didn't heal shit other than when stacked with druid hots in the beginning of some fights. and really, if your raid is dying, it's not because "you didn't time your renew spell correctly!! i swaer it's good!!", but most likely because you and your healing friends should get your shit together and start healing effectively.

[flowqz 34]

On 28.6.2017 at 1:08 PM, mollypercocet said:

i stopped using renew in raids when i realized it didn't heal shit other than when stacked with druid hots in the beginning of some fights. and really, if your raid is dying, it's not because "you didn't time your renew spell correctly!! i swaer it's good!!", but most likely because you and your healing friends should get your shit together and start healing effectively.

if you renew your whole raid at garr, that might be wrong.

[Jcus 0]

On 6/28/2017 at 7:08 AM, mollypercocet said:

i stopped using renew in raids when i realized it didn't heal shit other than when stacked with druid hots in the beginning of some fights. and really, if your raid is dying, it's not because "you didn't time your renew spell correctly!! i swaer it's good!!", but most likely because you and your healing friends should get your shit together and start healing effectively.

If you use it effectively on tanks then every renew gives you an extra 2.5 seconds for regen that you otherwise would have had to spend on a cast.

[PriestMePlease 0]

Hi, this is slightly unrelated to your guide (which was incredibly helpful, as well as all the following discussion), but I have a question to you all since you're knowledgeable on the game/class.

I have never played WoW. I ran Deadmines last night for the first time and it went very smoothly; no deaths, managed mana well, kept things moving. Obviously still a very easy dungeon.

My question is -- are Priests expected to SW:P mobs regularly or no? Is it even worth it? I tried to get a few on elites, but even with a lot of green gear, my mana isn't that high and I felt it was better to save it for healing/utility. I just felt a little useless wanding when I didn't need to heal much, but I was hesitant to use mana on damage at all pending burst damage or an accidental body pull from someone.

Is this something groups care about as I get into harder dungeons? Should I be learning to weave in SW:P and stuff? Or is it better to focus on healing? Generally speaking, of course.

[Shayss 43]

12 hours ago, PriestMePlease said:

Hi, this is slightly unrelated to your guide (which was incredibly helpful, as well as all the following discussion), but I have a question to you all since you're knowledgeable on the game/class.

I have never played WoW. I ran Deadmines last night for the first time and it went very smoothly; no deaths, managed mana well, kept things moving. Obviously still a very easy dungeon.

My question is -- are Priests expected to SW:P mobs regularly or no? Is it even worth it? I tried to get a few on elites, but even with a lot of green gear, my mana isn't that high and I felt it was better to save it for healing/utility. I just felt a little useless wanding when I didn't need to heal much, but I was hesitant to use mana on damage at all pending burst damage or an accidental body pull from someone.

Is this something groups care about as I get into harder dungeons? Should I be learning to weave in SW:P and stuff? Or is it better to focus on healing? Generally speaking, of course.

As a healer you are only there to Heal (unless there is NO damage and then u can smite). I generally focus only on healing as, if i dont need to drink, the group can normally just keep going forward.

SW:P is also expensive, i would avoid it unless you are actually trying to DPS.

[PriestMePlease 0]

13 hours ago, Shayss said:

As a healer you are only there to Heal (unless there is NO damage and then u can smite). I generally focus only on healing as, if i dont need to drink, the group can normally just keep going forward.

SW:P is also expensive, i would avoid it unless you are actually trying to DPS.

Cool, thanks!

I've played a few games where healers were expected to put in DPS regularly (like FFXIV) to a point, but they definitely had different mana/skill systems. Looks like I can rest easy and keep people alive, haha.