Mob Stealth detection broken on Nost??

[Cipherr 1]

So this is something thats been bugging me. I see rogues mention it in game but I see nothing on the bug tracker and nothing on this board.

 

Currently on Nost, with the first level of stealth, if you approach an even leveled (or even lower leveled) aggo mob from their frontal cone, they see right through your stealth at a great distance. Im talking like 8-9 yards and charge right at  you popping you out of stealth. This frontal cone detection is NEARLY instant. And its not supposed to work like that, not even with Stealth rank 1 at level 10 or so. You should have to be much closer to cause the mob to break your stealth so easily.

Is this going to be addressed or what? Does it stop happening with higher ranks of stealth and is that why no one is talking about it? I mean, its not blizzlike thats for damn sure.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Cipherr
Other

[Fisher 5]

That's what happens when you don't spend your points in Subtlety for Master of Deception. That's not a bug; it's not broken; that's simply how it is.

If you were further back, you'd notice the mobs turn to face you. If you are closer than that, they don't bother turning to face you, they just attack. The likelihood is that you're simply closer than you think, their detection is better than you think, or your stealth is worse than you think.

It is Blizzlike... for vanilla.

As an aside, I find it funny how many people come onto the rogue forums and complain about things they think are broken because they don't actually know what it was like as a rogue in vanilla.

[Vivenmort 1]

I have noticed questionable stealth detection too. Stealth from the front appears to be detected by equivalent level mobs at their normal aggro radius, rendering it completely useless unless used from behind. You say this is Blizzlike for Vanilla Fisher but try as I might I can't actually find any patch note where they significantly rework the mechanics of subtlety and detection (the two invisible values all players and mobs have that determine detection). I've only found a few notes about fixing a few bugs with damage breaking stealth and items that grant increased detection.

I will do in-game testing on this on my druid when I can log in later today and post back, approaching a stationary mob from the front and back, stealthed and unstealthed. 

[ismeckye 7]

23 hours ago, Cipherr said:

So this is something thats been bugging me. I see rogues mention it in game but I see nothing on the bug tracker and nothing on this board.

 

Currently on Nost, with the first level of stealth, if you approach an even leveled (or even lower leveled) aggo mob from their frontal cone, they see right through your stealth at a great distance. Im talking like 8-9 yards and charge right at  you popping you out of stealth. This frontal cone detection is NEARLY instant. And its not supposed to work like that, not even with Stealth rank 1 at level 10 or so. You should have to be much closer to cause the mob to break your stealth so easily.

Is this going to be addressed or what? Does it stop happening with higher ranks of stealth and is that why no one is talking about it? I mean, its not blizzlike thats for damn sure.

They dont pop you out of stealth anymore as soon as they spot and attack you. They improved the script on that. Now they first sense you and look at you when stealthed. Getting too close they run at you. You now have the chance to get Cheap Shot out before they unstealth you.

[Cipherr 1]

On 12/29/2016 at 8:56 PM, Fisher said:

That's what happens when you don't spend your points in Subtlety for Master of Deception. That's not a bug; it's not broken; that's simply how it is.

If you were further back, you'd notice the mobs turn to face you. If you are closer than that, they don't bother turning to face you, they just attack. The likelihood is that you're simply closer than you think, their detection is better than you think, or your stealth is worse than you think.

It is Blizzlike... for vanilla.

As an aside, I find it funny how many people come onto the rogue forums and complain about things they think are broken because they don't actually know what it was like as a rogue in vanilla.

No, its not vanilla like.  I played day 1, and I tested it all those years ago plenty. They did NOT detect you at 8+ yards and run at you. End of story.

Yay, we were all there day 1. Can we stop fellating ourselves and have a real conversation now?

Stealth detection on nost for mobs is higher than it was in vanilla with R1 stealth and no MoD. I know very well what MoD did and how it worked. What Im asking is if its been reported and if they are looking into it. I remember it vividly, I leveled 2 rogues, one horde one alliance, and the range that triggers the mobs -stop and look at you- is longer than it should be by what seems like 2 yards or so. Its miniscule, but noticeable.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Cipherr

[TTL 6]

Yes I agree there is something wrong with Stealth, I was complaining quite a lot from level 1-20 because it seemed like mobs were seeing me in stealth from a mile away... it wasn't that bad on Kronos which I was just leveling on previously.

Either it's broken on Nost, or Kronos is too good, I just leveled on there weeks before Nost re-released and can confirm I noticed the difference at low level too.

Edited December 31, 2016 by TTL

[Cipherr 1]

Ahh that actually bums me out. I haven't tried really anything on Kronos, but it sounds like they have it more accurate. Something I hate to admit. Oh well, maybe its just the extra year they had since nost shutdown that allowed them to work on small stuff like that.

[Fisher 5]

If there's an issue, I simply haven't encountered it. I suppose there's no point in arguing anecdotes, because "I played vanilla and I remember it wasn't like this" versus "I played vanilla and I remember it was like this" doesn't really prove much of anything, and I doubt there's any information out there about the exact range mobs will detect you and/or aggro you.

What I will say is that the levels of both yourself and mob need to be taken into account. While roaming in Stealth on my rogue, I've noticed plenty of mobs that will turn and look at me without aggroing. When mobs run at me, I'm able to Cheap Shot before they actually attack me, so Stealth definitely isn't dropping instantly like some are reporting.

Quote

" The difference between subtlety and detection will determine the distance that a player will be seen at. The closer you are to your target, the higher the probability that you will be detected. The chance of detection is also increased if you anywhere in a 180° arc in front of the target; it is always best to approach a target from behind. Remaining stationary does not make you harder to detect. "

This is exactly how I remember it, but that was 12 years ago, so it's entirely possible it's off by a couple yards. 

[Vivenmort 1]

I have made a video showcasing this behaviour. Seems to confirm that when approaching from the front, stealth is effectively useless because the mob will aggro you at the usual aggro range for your relative levels. The mob does not face your direction before attacking you and unstealthing you to warn you, the mob will attack with no warning. As I said, If this is how it was intended to work in Vanilla and it was changed in a later patch, I cannot find a note documenting it. I might test on Kronos as a cross-reference next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXmUGvLD_5o

[Rikud 1]

Currently leveling a Sub Rogue and have spent all my points on Master of Deception, definitely see a difference.

[Cipherr 1]

6 hours ago, Vivenmort said:

I have made a video showcasing this behaviour. Seems to confirm that when approaching from the front, stealth is effectively useless because the mob will aggro you at the usual aggro range for your relative levels. The mob does not face your direction before attacking you and unstealthing you to warn you, the mob will attack with no warning. As I said, If this is how it was intended to work in Vanilla and it was changed in a later patch, I cannot find a note documenting it. I might test on Kronos as a cross-reference next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXmUGvLD_5o

Thanks for this. This is exactly what Im talking about. Even if you have no MoD the detection range is clearly off. Keep in mind as a NE Druid the druid in the video gets about 1.2 levels of MoD for free via racials, and yet, look at that aggro range. Its nearly the same as the non-stealthed aggro range if not the exact same.

[Maxvla 0]

I also played a rogue in vanilla. Stealth was not like it showed in the video. From the front you would be 'warned' at about 6-7 yards. then openly attacked from about 4-5 yards. Master of deception made it so you could almost be directly in front of a same level mob without detection. You had to nearly walk into the mob's hitbox to get them to attack you.

[Cipherr 1]

It has been reported on the Elysium bug tracker.

 

https://elysium-project.org/bugtracker/issue/829

 

Visit the link and upvote it. Also look at the video posted on the bug report as he has now tested it and shows how Player characters can see stealthed rogues/druid from 30+ yards... Hopefully no one would dare defend THAT. Stealth detection is clearly broken in the frontal arc in some way.

[Cipherr 1]

On 1/3/2017 at 10:50 AM, Henceforth said:

I would downvote it. If you ever played through vanilla and TBC you will know that this is something all rogues complained about. Once you spec into Sub you have no problems with stealth.

After TBC with WoTLK and after blizzard made stealth nearly invisibility and undetectable.

 

 

I mean. Is Elysium supposed to fix bugs or change mechanics that existed through the content? I mean, it would, for sure, make the game better, but whats next? Make druids use potions and HS in shapeshift? Remove target limit of thunderclap for warriors? Remove debuff slots?

 

Rogues always suffered from stealth detection from mobs. Stealth isn't invisibility. MoD specced rogues are not suffering.

The bug tracker was already massively upvoted, confirmed by Elysium team as a bug and then patched on PTR and has gone live today as a hopeful fix.

And all of that happened because you are wrong about how stealth worked in Vanilla. But you can keep on believing yourself if you want. No one cares as long as its fixed to the accurate way its supposed to be.

Todays patch notes: https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/30079-development-update-04012017/#comment-289577

 

Bye.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Cipherr

[toniplavna 20]

Is it fixed?

[Ninjacorpse 2]

Bumping this since I get a lot of questions ingame and told them to check forums.

As mentioned, stealth is broken here. I too played retail from 2005 and you get knoced out of it way too easy on this core at the moment. Good thing its on the bugtracker, but remember thats not a guarantee.

For this to be adressed people need to be vocal about it and in a reasonable way. Proivide facts.

Meawhile, this is a good time to learn how to approach a target in stealth properly if you're new to playing a rogue/druid

[etsuri 2]

Stealth is still bugged. Its not quite where it should be.

 

Also vanish is bugged. I have had mobs spot me immediately after using it. the improved stealth should make it so i can almost walk right through mobs but they are spotting me from 5-8 yards away being the same level as me.

 

Also i used vanished while netted once and im not sure it even de aggrod the mobs attacking me.

 

Edit: yeah i used vanish and the mobs never deaggrod. Sometimes it works sometimes not it seems. but whether the mobs de aggro or not the improved stealth is still obviously not working right.

Edited January 18, 2017 by etsuri

[GoldenEye 3]

Yes it's bugged. I get popped out of stealth and seen easily by mobs 3 or so levels lower than me and as of now I have 2 points in master of deception as I'm testing it out. I've also vanished and had mobs(8 or so levels lower than me) keep charging me from a far and knock me right out of vanish. So this needs to be addressed because this is what the rogue class depends on and at this point it's silly. 

[Weazool 1]

I agree, I have a nelf rogue and get spotted quitea few feet away by mobs 4 levels lower than me. Stealth rank1, but still makes in-door sneaking by lower level mobs impossible, wich should not be so.

[Somerandom 0]

I didn't play in vanilla but I have played on many other vanilla blizzlike realms and the stealth detection on elysium is by far the worst I've seen.

[lordsesho 0]

4 points in master of deception and i feel that i still can be easily spotted...

[toniplavna 20]

Rly devs should do something about this, redone the stealth or something. You cant approach near any mob if you are not going from behind. 

[Weazool 1]

yet theresa *confirmed* "BUG" on the bugtracker, that demands stealth to further be nerfed.

https://elysium-project.org/bugtracker/issue/941

the proof in the videos seems arguable at BEST.
do you guys agree?