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Hunter Agility Equivalence Points Formula?

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Is there anything similar to rogues' Agility Equivalence Points? I've only been able to find a formula for TBC, which clearly wouldn't work for vanilla. 

The most I've found is this:

Quote

53 Agility = 1% Crit Chance
1 Agility = 2 Ranged Attack Power
14 Ranged Attack Power = 1 DPS

Forgive me if anything I say here sounds dumb. I'm trying my best to make sense of all this to help me better understand why certain gear is better, down to the numbers. That information leads me to this: 53 Agility = 106 Ranged Attack Power = 1% Crit = 7.51 DPS, however, I don't believe that is correct.

53 Agility is 106 Ranged Attack Power and 1% Crit, so 1% Crit can't be worth the same as 53 Agility. However, 1% Crit could be equal to 106 Ranged Attack Power and consequently equal to 7.51 DPS, correct?

If Agility gives both Ranged Attack Power and Crit, then Agility's DPS value is basically double that of the two stats alone, so 53 Agility = 15.02 DPS, yes? Which means 1 point of Agility is roughly 0.28 DPS.

So if I take the formula and simply double everything except Agility, the formula looks like this:
53 Agility = 212 Ranged Attack Power = 2% Crit = 15.02 DPS
1 Agility = 4 Attack Power = 0.038% Crit Chance = 0.28 DPS

Also, the Agility Equivalence Points for rogues also includes some other things like Hit chance, Stamina, Resistances, etc. I don't believe Hit chance really works the same for Hunters, since 8.6% is the Hit cap and we don't benefit beyond that, so it really comes down to "do you need Hit or not?" Because Agility is far more valuable to Hunters than it is to Rogues, I also don't think the 1:1 ratio for Agility to Stamina is accurate, either. I don't think it's worth calculating resistances' value since you really only need to worry about that except for progression fights where an excess of resistance is needed. Finally, I have absolutely no idea how much Agility 1 Intellect is worth. I wouldn't say it's worthless, but I wouldn't say it's great, either. 1:3? 

1 Agility = 1.5 Stamina = 3 Intellect = 4 Attack Power = 0.038% Crit Chance = 0.28 DPS

Does that look correct? Obviously it's not exact in nature -- your current gear will change the value of certain stats, and such -- but is the formula for general guidance usage correct?

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Save yourself the headache on calculating stats--trust me. Values change constantly depending on your stats but you'll have a good idea what item is better than the other. If it's roughly equivalent, then don't sweat it too badly. I doubt 2-5 dps is going to kill your raid.

 

You'll never be able to calculate agi:int ratios, as the amount of intellect you need changes based on the fight/consumables used. If your guild tears through bosses in 30-60 seconds, you won't need as much intellect because you can cover deficiencies with runes/MMPs

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9 hours ago, Ironsides said:

Values change constantly depending on your stats but you'll have a good idea what item is better than the other. If it's roughly equivalent, then don't sweat it too badly. I doubt 2-5 dps is going to kill your raid.

No, I don't imagine it would be that big of a deal, but I enjoy being the best I can be, and that generally means understanding everything. If I can get 2-5 more DPS, why wouldn't I? If an item is better, there's no reason I shouldn't use it, right? 

9 hours ago, Ironsides said:

You'll never be able to calculate agi:int ratios, as the amount of intellect you need changes based on the fight/consumables used. If your guild tears through bosses in 30-60 seconds, you won't need as much intellect because you can cover deficiencies with runes/MMPs

This is a fair point, but that's why I asked if the ratios looked accurate in general. Obviously it's all going to change depending on the fight, your current gear, your group, etc. Stamina isn't very important on fights where you're not taking damage, but I don't really want to know the exact ratios for every fight or anything. I mostly wanted this for leveling purposes, anyway. 

There's enough people out there that can calculate what the 'best' item is at level 60, but very little (or zero) information exists about what is good before then.

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You're trying to simplify stat interactions that aren't all that simple.

Ignoring talents, at zero crit, +1% crit provides (on average) a 1% increase in dps.  But additional points in crit rate experience diminishing returns.  Going from 1% crit to 2% crit is only a 0.99% increase in dps.  By the time you're at 25% crit, that next % will only increase dps by 0.80%.  Factoring in 30% bonus damage from Mortal Strikes helps weight the benefits of crit.  Going from 0% to 1% provides 1.30% increase whereas going from 25% to 26% provides 0.98% increase.

With attack power, the gains are calculated differently.  To calculate a 1% increase in dps, you need to factor in your weapon's avg dps.  Let's say your bow averages 30 dps and you have 0 attack power.  Your bow provides what is basically a base of 420 attack power (30*14), so to see a 1% increase in dps, you need to add 4.2 attack power.  When you reach 1500 attack power (including bow dps), you need an additional 15 attack power for 1% increase to dps.

So as you can see, there's no simple equivalency.  Each stat is dependent on your current statline.  If you have high attack power, extra crit may give you better gains in dps.  If you have high crit, then you should probably focus on attack power.  Generally speaking, with pre-raid gear you should be focusing on reaching hit cap primarily, which will dictate much of your selections.  After that, I would focus on adding as much agility as you can, with some crit pieces providing a good chunk of agility/attack power as well.  Once you start raiding, there's not a lot of decisions to make as the tier gear is bis so long as you remain hit capped.

If you still want to dumb it down, with talents, any increase in crit% will provide you a little over 1% increase in dps until you hit 25% crit, at which point you will receive a little less than 1%, but the simple math would be about 1%.  For attack power, look at your character sheet Ranged AP, then add 450 (for bloodseeker xbow, adjust as needed) and 110 for hunter's mark, and take 1% of the total.  That's about how much AP you need to equal 1% crit.  So to convert this into Agility, we know 53 agi is 1% crit, so let's simplify it and say it's 50 agi instead.  So every 10 agi is worth about 0.2% crit and 20 ap.  If you have 2000 AP, you're receiving about a 1.2% increase with an extra 10 agility.  If you have only 1000 ap, it's actually a 2.2% increase.  So if you're comparing gear/etc, start by figuring out what % increase you're getting from agility/attack power, then factor in any increases/decreases in crit% accordingly.

This, of course is purely from a character sheet perspective....the biggest gains/losses in dps will be from proper/improper application of a shot rotation, and equipping an appropriate ranged weapon to maximize that rotation's potential.

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I'm not trying to find the equivalency formula for maximizing DPS's sake. I want to "calculate" the item's effective "value" for leveling. Worrying about shot rotations is something that a leveling hunter most likely won't be doing, and the gear available at lower levels (without enchants) will make it near impossible to reach any of the Attack Power or Crit values you've used as examples.

I already acknowledged that your stat weights will change depending on your existing stats. What I asked is if the formula I gave is a good starting point, for general purposes.

The AEP formula for rogues changes depending on your stats, but it still exists, and still works in general for finding out what piece of gear is best, and it works relatively well for leveling where you don't really have high enough stats such that the values would really change all that much anyway. 

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If this is for leveling, don't overthink it.   Don't worry about crit rates because spiky damage like that will pull threat off your pet, just focus on raising your agility and attack power, then depending on your server/preferences stack some stamina for survival or intellect for longevity (or both).  If you can get a piece with +hit, wear it.

It's rare that you're going to be presented with two options that are close enough to worry about, and even so they'll be upgraded soon enough anyway.  Unless you're twinking, save the min-max for lvl 60.  Hunters are the least gear-reliant class when it comes to leveling because you usually go Beast Mastery and your pet does all the dirty work (and you could be naked for all he cares).

Edited by Drakbak

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